mos6507 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I f they buried all those carts,then why werent the carts from the "crash"buried? The E.T. carts are part of the crash. I think the crash happened too fast for Atari to be in a position for another tax-writeoff like this, and probably would have had trouble finding another suitable location, not to mention the overall panic going on at Atari HQ. It could also be that this was an experiment on Atari's part and that the bean-counters discovered after the fact that the tax savings were not worth it enough to do it again. You have to remember what Atari's place in pop culture was at the time. Had it been public knowledge what was going on, a crowd would likely have congregated trying to take some of this stuff away. So if a truck was "stolen" and driven over the border to Mexico, as was claimed, the level of subterfuge employed in this dumping was perfectly natural. While this was a tax-writeoff for Atari, the merchandise would have at least appeared to have enough value to the general public to be a target for salvage and resale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanes Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 The E.T. carts are part of the crash. I think the crash happened too fast for Atari to be in a position for another tax-writeoff like this, and probably would have had trouble finding another suitable location, not to mention the overall panic going on at Atari HQ. Another thing to keep in mind is that these would have been the cartridges that Atari had on hand. The carts that were in retailer's hands ended up in warehouses and clearance racks as (according to my understanding) it was not common practice at the time for game companies to accept the return of unsold merchandise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Whiz Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 The E.T. carts are part of the crash. I think the crash happened too fast for Atari to be in a position for another tax-writeoff like this, and probably would have had trouble finding another suitable location, not to mention the overall panic going on at Atari HQ. Another thing to keep in mind is that these would have been the cartridges that Atari had on hand. The carts that were in retailer's hands ended up in warehouses and clearance racks as (according to my understanding) it was not common practice at the time for game companies to accept the return of unsold merchandise This may be true, but I think that it is very telling the way that Atari put it at the time. It was something along the lines of "these carts were all returned defective, however once in a while a customer erroneously returned a cartridge that was not defective." In other words, stores saw they couldn't move their inventory, marked the carts as "defective" and shipped them back to Atari. That's my theory anyway, though I think it is just a part of the overall crisis... ~G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 In other words, stores saw they couldn't move their inventory, marked the carts as "defective" and shipped them back to Atari. That's my theory anyway, though I think it is just a part of the overall crisis... The problem with this is that according to the Urban Legend no one hardly bought E.T. and those that did were returned...but we all know that is complete and utter BS. The first production run of E.Ts was about half of the number of Pac Man produced....and yet amazingly enough E.T. is one of the most common carts today. How is this possible? I know all my friends had E.T. when I was a kid, none of them returned the cart. Does anyone here remember even having a friend that returned their copy of E.T....or even a friend that didn't have a copy? Atari had such a hard time moving E.T. carts, they ordered a 2nd production run 6 months after the supposed burial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 they ordered a 2nd production run 6 months after the supposed burial. I keep hearing this again and again. What is your source for this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 they ordered a 2nd production run 6 months after the supposed burial. I keep hearing this again and again. What is your source for this information? I said 6 months but it was really sometime 1986. My source is to look at the carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Methinks moycon is protecting the ET carts for some reason. Come clean! [/sarcasm] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Whiz Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 In other words, stores saw they couldn't move their inventory, marked the carts as "defective" and shipped them back to Atari. That's my theory anyway, though I think it is just a part of the overall crisis... The problem with this is that according to the Urban Legend no one hardly bought E.T. and those that did were returned...but we all know that is complete and utter BS. The first production run of E.Ts was about half of the number of Pac Man produced....and yet amazingly enough E.T. is one of the most common carts today. How is this possible? I know all my friends had E.T. when I was a kid, none of them returned the cart. Does anyone here remember even having a friend that returned their copy of E.T....or even a friend that didn't have a copy? Atari had such a hard time moving E.T. carts, they ordered a 2nd production run 6 months after the supposed burial. That's actually my point. The market was saturated, the production run was too high, and the stores simply set them back *as if* they had been returned defective just to get rid of them and get their money back. But I am not limiting this to just E.T. carts -- I agree that the "urban myth" part of the story focuses too much on that. This would have included all titles. The "collapse" would be like the stock market -- sales started to slow, store owners panicked and looked for a way to get rid of quickly-devaluing stock, and returned the carts by the only method available: by saying they were defective. This returning en masse created havoc within Atari about what to do with all these "worthless" carts. Store them (with all the expense involved) and hope the market bounces back? Or just dump them and get the (probably much-needed) tax write-off in a declining year? Again theory, not fact here. But a theory that fits the facts as we know them... And again, this is only part of the whole crisis. Atari was mis-managed on many levels, the business model was not flexible enough to survive in a flattening market, third-party carts and companies were on the rise and in many cases beating Atari carts, a general recession in the '80s... the list goes on. The "urban myth" in my view is the "why" of it: E.T. was not the best game (nor, for that matter, was Pac Man). It took the fall for the whole industry, and unjustly so -- or at least inaccurately so. It is like saying that Yoko Ono broke up the Beatles -- she was a symptom (if you must call her anything), not the cause. The Beatles were well on their way to imploding years before Yoko or Linda or anyone else came onto the scene. E.T. was Atari's Yoko. Someone or something had to be blamed for the collapse even though the truth was simple: "This Too Shall Pass." ~G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanes Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 And again, this is only part of the whole crisis. Atari was mis-managed on many levels, the business model was not flexible enough to survive in a flattening market, third-party carts and companies were on the rise and in many cases beating Atari carts, a general recession in the '80s... the list goes on. You also need to remember that the Computer Price Wars played a big part in consumer loss of confidence in game consoles. Tramiel's "why buy just a game system when you can have a computer?" marketing push was extremely effective. Especially since every game company in existence was trying to make their game system into a computer. (Intellivision Keyboard Attachment, 2600 Graduate & Compumate, Colecovision Adam, Mattel Aquarius, etc.) Consumers got the message: "Computers are the new hotness for video games." The glut of gaming equipment just lit the fuse on an already massive powder keg. As you said, there was no one particular element. It was an odd combination of factors brought on by industry immaturity, explosive growth, and a failure to plan for the long term. 20 years later, the same thing would happen to businesses based around the Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I agree that home computers ate into console sales during the crash once they finally started to get cheap. The initial gamer demographic got older and wanted to explore more about computers than just the games. Atari screwed the pooch by not making the 5200 an early version of the XEGS when they had a chance, not to mention overall mistakes made in marketing their home computer line. Atari should not have been in a position to have all their chips riding on the 2600 (or the nascent 7800). The irony is that these days gaming on the PC is declining in favor of consoles. This isn't just because game companies love console DRM. I think consumers want something guaranteed to work smoothly out of the box without worrying about their hardware configuration. When Nintendo started up it was very much a demographic shift. Nintendo picked up the very next generation of kids who were too young to be into computers who were presented with something brand new aimed just for them. BTW, people also tend to think of a hard shift from 8-bit to 16-bit PCs. There was a lot of overlap. 8-bit home computers started as premium priced items and only really took off when they became the "eMachines" of their day around the time of and immediately after the crash. I used to wince over the idea of spending more than a thousand dollars for a computer system. Only relatively recently have PCs fallen down to those historical 8-bit home computer pricepoints again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 I didn't know Stingrays site was down. If someone, maybe Albert can host them here, still wants to host the videos I made of the newspaper articles and the blairwitch video of the landfill, I have them on a cd and can email them so that they can be seen again. The highway that runs over the landfill I reported that a long time ago, it's a bypass thats maybe 6 lanes total so the odds of it being on top are slim. If the reporter from the paper has the exact location, I'd be interested in knowing how he found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 So they are saying that a highway, which is probably between 40 and 80 feet wide, just happens to run over the exact, relatively small bit of that massive landfill that the goods are buried under? In San Antonio, there is a highway that goes over a large landfill area. The highway takes up very little of the landfill area. So I suspect that the truth is that the highway goes over the landfill, and since nobody really knows the location, it's probably just in the area of the highway, rather than directly beneath it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 5 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 So here it is. The closest I think we will get to the exact location of where the carts are. According to the reporter I spoke to, the carts are located under the highway at the entrance ramp on what used to be called West 1st. Street. It is now called Alamogordo Dr. He said a highway and entrance ramp are over the site now. Well, that puts the carts riiiiiigggghhhhtttt here... I've done all I can do. After I post the new newspaper article I officially rest my case. Get digging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4ever2600 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Ok for all of you conspiracy theorists, if you don't believe that this even happened... Sad to see so many closed minded people... Consider this... YOU ALL KNOW that the city of Alamawhateverthehellitscalled, NM doesn't want hundreds of us Atari nerds digging up their old garbage... Of COURSE they are going to tell you, "Oh well don't bother digging, it's under 50 billion tons of concrete highway now..." CMON!! You KNOW it's not... Could it be? OF COURSE... Being the opened minded person that I am... I have to consider the possibility that it's possible... But I think of ALL conspiracies, they'd want this one pushed down your throat, so you don't dig half their city up looking for Atari carts... I personally don't believe they are all 'under the highway'... Just my 2 cents... - D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 5 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Before we have yet another urban legend, he never said that every atari cart is buried exactly underneath this highway. He told me that there is a highway and entrance ramp running over the landfill where the carts were dumped. Simple as that. Turn the picture a bit and you have a nice 'X Marks the Spot'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Since it hasn't been posted still, here is the link for the new article in the Alamogordo paper. http://www.alamogordonews.com/search/ci_4876884 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 5 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Well other than taking everything he asked me about out of context and completely misquoting me everywhere (at least he got my name right ) he did give us a tiny bit of new info. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) So here it is. The closest I think we will get to the exact location of where the carts are. According to the reporter I spoke to, the carts are located under the highway at the entrance ramp on what used to be called West 1st. Street. It is now called Alamogordo Dr. He said a highway and entrance ramp are over the site now. Well, that puts the carts riiiiiigggghhhhtttt here... I've done all I can do. After I post the new newspaper article I officially rest my case. Get digging. Yes,exactly,get digging,all this HE SAID,SHE SAID,this is still NO PROOF ,until the EVIDENCE IS DUG UP. Edited December 30, 2006 by Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Well other than taking everything he asked me about out of context and completely misquoting me everywhere (at least he got my name right ) he did give us a tiny bit of new info. Oh well. Kind of the way I felt about my story in that paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanes Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 taking everything he asked me about out of context and completely misquoting me everywhere (at least he got my name right ) Tell me about it. I spent two hours on the phone with a reporter once, explaining how Java was more useful than .NET (first incarnation), especially on large servers that Windows couldn't touch at the time. When the article went to press, the reporter spun the story toward ".NET Wins!" and used a single, badly broken soundbite from me as the counter evidence. Yep, no bias there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 5 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Well other than taking everything he asked me about out of context and completely misquoting me everywhere (at least he got my name right ) he did give us a tiny bit of new info. Oh well. Kind of the way I felt about my story in that paper At least you inspired me with your story to push for all the info I could. For all my phone calls and questions, I may have gotten about one iota of info more than you did originally. Don't think it was worth the effort. However, if you ever ever get together an army of back-hoes, I will gladly pilot one with you down the streets of Alamogordo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Well other than taking everything he asked me about out of context and completely misquoting me everywhere (at least he got my name right ) he did give us a tiny bit of new info. Oh well. Kind of the way I felt about my story in that paper At least you inspired me with your story to push for all the info I could. For all my phone calls and questions, I may have gotten about one iota of info more than you did originally. Don't think it was worth the effort. However, if you ever ever get together an army of back-hoes, I will gladly pilot one with you down the streets of Alamogordo. Every iota helps right? I emailed the reporter today and told him of someone he might talk to I knew. He owed a video game store in town for years, but how many I don't know. They closed it down when I was living there 5 or so years ago and opened this place Five Springs Water Co 1308 Indian Wells Rd, Alamogordo, NM 505-443-1882 at least it was a water co. and on that road, I think it is it, small town remember. Maybe if someone wants to give a ring and ask. They may be selling E.T. brand water now who knows. Also the reporter said "A guy claiming to have some of the games called me a week ago but i have not been able to get a hold of him as of yet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 I was doing a little wiki search on Atari and came across this fantastic site about the Atari landfill, this guy has put a lot of work into this site, even has a interview with the Alamogordo Mayor. Check it out. http://atari.digital-madman.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 I didn't realize that link was posted in the other landfill thread earlier that day, sorry. I was going about trying another angle on this story, and had two ideas. First, is there a way to find out who was working at the warehouse at the time in ElPaso, somebody loaded all the trucks and had to see what was going it. As well as a few supervisors I'd think. Second, I thought maybe there is a chance that a relative of Marian McQuiddy may have some of her work and just maybe some pics of the atari story thats been in a shoebox for years. Well I read the obituary for some information and found the parents names as well as a sister, and others that didn't give relations about, I couldn't find the sister on the web anywhere but when I did a search on the father....I can't make this up, it's too good. Well just read for yourself and let the conspiracy theories and links with E.T. the game and Roswell begin... again. http://roswellproof.homestead.com/McQuiddy.html (was editor of the Roswell newspaper a time of UFO story) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0459530/ (a movie interview) Hum, maybe I need to lock the doors, I may have stumbled upon something deep. I want to believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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