Kurt_Woloch Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 The 8-pixel wide strip of the map is running vertically from the top to the bottom of the map. It basically corresponds to one character column on screen, or better, on the whole map, since it doesn't end at the end of the visible screen. There would be 36 of such strips in the arcade version, or at most 32 in a hypothetical TI-99 version. The numbers to be seen in the picture denote the pixel row on which the respective zig-zag line starts. The numbers converted by me (4, 10, 4, 4) denote the distance in pixel rows from one point to the next, so a number of 4 means that this line will end on the other side on the strip, 4 pixels lower than it started (or lower than the endpoint of the last line). Which relatively would mean the the first line starts at pixel row -10, the next one starts at pixel row -6, the next one starts at pixel row 4, the next one at pixel row 8, and the last one at pixel row 12. The pixel column, meanwhile, alternates between the left and right edge of the strip, so it doesn't have to defined explicitly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 That was a great video to watch. Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Hmm, now you mention it that does seem more logical. It would probably also be more efficient for building the name table. Actually, after looking in Magellan, my map is organized like this: 00005 00045 00345 02340 12300 12000 10000 So in this case it makes sense to do what I did and store it as: 12345 12345 12345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 Just a little update to my demo, now with checkerboard tiles and corrected bass notes. Regarding the music, I made a small Java program that reads an ePSGMOD file and adjusts the frequency of all zero volume notes in channel 2 by 15/16 (assuming all notes used to control periodic noise have zero volume). This compensates for the difference between the SN76489 and the TMS9919 sound chips. Let me know if anyone wants it. Isoscroll.zip 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kl99 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 This thread is totally interesting and lead me to try out Magellan.I always dreamed about some Mario like Jump'n'run with Horizontal Scrolling on the TI-99. Don't know whether I can program such a thing, but maybe together we can give it a try.First thing I had to learn is that you can prepare multiple Screen Image Tables, but there are limits where you can define the pointer to the one which is active. So you can only activate it at 16 defined spots in VDP, namely at each begin of a 1024 bytes area in the VDP. Either at >0000, >0400, >0800,..., >3C00. So no smooth pointer adaptions to simply get the next row from memory onto the screen Then I read about Graphics Mode I versus Mode II versus Half-Bitmap Mode.Since horizontal scrolling is limiting the colors on a pixel line quite similar in all the modes, I wanna start with the easiest and most familiar mode for me: Graphics Mode I. The color limits are really tricky to overcome when doing smooth scrolling, you can see a few tries on that in my map below.I guess such a game is hard enough to try it without backscrolling. Haven't decided yet whether i shall scroll 1 pixel, 2pixel or 4pixel at once, will decide that later. Of course all would be easier if I can scroll 8 pixels (1char) at once, but I read that such a scrolling looks blocky to those who tried that option.So far I drew 4 screen maps in Magellan in Mode I, made sure about color transitions, and triggered the export for 'Assembler Character Transition Data'.The created assembler source seems to be for the PC, not the TI. Any guidance for the next steps would be more than welcome.Are there any steps within the tools left or am I on my own with the data statements now?Attached is a PNG of the map The assembler output: map1.asm The Magellan file: map1b.zip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 So far I drew 4 screen maps in Magellan in Mode I, made sure about color transitions, and triggered the export for 'Assembler Character Transition Data'. The created assembler source seems to be for the PC, not the TI. Any guidance for the next steps would be more than welcome. Are there any steps within the tools left or am I on my own with the data statements now? Great to see a new game project. I will do my best to help. I see that you have made 4 individual 32x24 screens in Magellan instead of one 128x24 map. The latter would be a better starting point for smooth scrolling. There are only 48 horizontal character transitions in your map, which is good. If you go above 128 you will be limited to 2 pixels scrolling (assuming that you want to keep all scrolled patterns in VDP RAM, which I would highly recommend.) I will be happy to put together a modified version of one of my demos for you that can scroll your map right or left. Just give me a few days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kl99 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) Thx for clarifying that RasmusM, here are updated files: The assembler output: map1.asm The Magellan file: map1.zip Edited December 28, 2013 by kl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 Thanks, I will look at them tonight. Just to clarify that the assembler output from Magellan is just the data (map, color table, scrolled patterns). You also need an assembler program to perform the scrolling. This can be programmed on a PC (look in the "TI-99/4A development resources" thread for tools), or if you have lots of patience, directly on the TI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980gamer Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 RasmusM, Can we do vertical and horizontal scrolling in the same map? That is a MAP 128x128 or 128x96 etc. I know you have shown both vertical and horizontal scrolling and the zaxxon-ish scroll also. I think you did one block H then one block V , HVHVHVH.. So, that kinda answers my question, But I want to be certain... Thanks, Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMole Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 RasmusM, Can we do vertical and horizontal scrolling in the same map? That is a MAP 128x128 or 128x96 etc. I know you have shown both vertical and horizontal scrolling and the zaxxon-ish scroll also. I think you did one block H then one block V , HVHVHVH.. So, that kinda answers my question, But I want to be certain... Thanks, Gene Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKkWAUJ2H1k 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980gamer Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 That is a cool demo.. I was thinking of doing a racing game.. ( intellivision Auto Racing style ) Car is fixed position ( rotates ) but the course would scroll in required directions. I guess, I would need a scroll engine that allows me to build maps. To Dream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 Thx for clarifying that RasmusM, here are updated files... Here is the source code ('Horizontal graphics scroll.a99') to produce a smooth scrolling version of your map. I intend to include the source with Magellan at some point, which explains the formal comments at the beginning, but you're welcome to remove all that. A disk image with an assembled version is also included. Load and Run E/A#3 DSK1.HGSCRLC. You can change scrolling direction (left/right) using the joystick. Note that it is possible to move outside of the map if you insist. When exporting from Magellan, don't include character numbers. This will mess up the display since the numbers will be treated as pattern data. You don't need to generate scrolled character frames either (although I have included them here). My code (HSCRL routine) will scroll the patterns for you while they are uploaded to VDP RAM, and leaving the scrolled patterns out will save a lot of CPU RAM. For demonstration I have included another routine (CPYPAT) that simply copies the scrolled patterns generated by Magellan to VDP RAM. You can try that if you like, but for future work I suggest to use the HSCRL routine and exclude the scrolled patterns from the Magellan export. I don't know how important performance is for you? This demo is using up to about 40% of a 60Hz screen update cycle. It's the same algorithm I used for TI Scramble. It could be made somewhat more efficient by moving central copying loops (VMLW, VMLWH) into scratch pad. And if you have enough RAM to spare you can make two copies of you map (one with the most significant bit set) and reduce it to use only about 20% of a cycle by eliminating the slow VMLWH. The source code is not that well documented, so please ask any number of questions you like. HorizontalScroll.zip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 That is a cool demo.. I was thinking of doing a racing game.. ( intellivision Auto Racing style ) Car is fixed position ( rotates ) but the course would scroll in required directions. I guess, I would need a scroll engine that allows me to build maps. To Dream! It's possible, but the graphics would have to be very simple. Try to make a mock-up of your map in Magellan and we can discuss how to scroll it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kl99 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Wow ! Just saw this on Classic99. A big thank you for your invested time, effort and help. Will try to investigate the code and understand what is happening. I have some assembler experience, but not too much yet. I agree that Graphic Mode I is capable of even doing a sidescroller like this and beats bitmap mode by keeping memory requirements low. Today I spent time to rework the Graphics to further avoid the horizontal color limits and get a better look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Scrollin' in multicolor. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Is that Bayer destroying all those bees? If a port of this is ever made, it would be best to change the enemies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Is that Bayer destroying all those bees? If a port of this is ever made, it would be best to change the enemies... No it's Monsanto :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 No it's Monsanto :-) Then China will not allow an import of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Smooth scrolling on the MSX1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2up41-p091k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggoo Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Some more examples of smooth scrolling on MSX1/V9918 Princess Quest (vertical and horizontal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPQ3PsrqpeU Pippols by Konami: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2se7byPKjA Theseus by ASCII: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k73p_KP0em4 Crusader: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZruRcSKsJPQ Circus Charlie (uses some sprites overlay in some areas to hide scrolling glitches): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Now42DgefPQ Malaika: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH6gtS_2iGM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 One of the next videos after somtimes' is Zaxxon. Not a demonstration of smooth scrolling, by far, but still interesting as a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) About msx1 scrolling, it is possible to have - Sprites perfectly active (no cloning)- Double buffering with two pages with 256 tiles per page Try this rom on any msx emulator https://sites.google.com/site/testmsx/Home/double-buffer-in-screen-2-on-msx/URIDx2.rom?attredirects=0&d=1 The trick is to use hybrid mode masking only colors. When you mask only colors, you have: 2k color, masked for all charsets2k pattern, not masked2k pattern, not masked You can have 2 such 6k banks, with 256 available chars. VDP register setup for the two pages: page0: color = &h0000, pattern = &h2000page1: color = &h2000, pattern = &h0000 Each page takes 6K to be updated All 32 sprites are available without cloning The only side effect is that the top third of the screen cannot be used for tiles, as it hosts data for lower 2/3. Here more details: http://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/general-discussion/msx-vaporware-true-or-false?page=18 Edited January 7, 2014 by artrag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Is it me, or does this use more than 16 colours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It uses 16 colours as it is an msx1 game, but the CRT used to display the video causes some ugly artefacts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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