TransKey-II in development

[+MacRorie]

 

Wow you really are itching to get some of these

 

I'm not going to discourage you, but if you can wait for a few more days we might be able to do this much cheaper. Yes those are double-sided boards.

 

Do you have a way to program the chips?

 

- Michael

 

EDIT: Just got the gerbers for TK-II-PIGGYBACK, and initially all looks good, I'll load them into a viewer just to be sure.

 

Yes, well, I have thoughts about them. I want to try it out! I have Steve's excellent KRH on one machine, so I want to compare!

 

I do have a way to program the chips. I guess I will just order a set or two of parts . . .

 

Oh, okay . . . . [glum dejected look] I will wait. I only have small windows with the arrival of our twins, but I can wait.

[+mytek]

 

Yes, well, I have thoughts about them. I want to try it out! I have Steve's excellent KRH on one machine, so I want to compare!

 

I do have a way to program the chips. I guess I will just order a set or two of parts . . .

 

Oh, okay . . . . [glum dejected look] I will wait. I only have small windows with the arrival of our twins, but I can wait.

 

Oh cheer up

 

Everything checked out good in my Gerber Viewer app, and as far as I could tell looked ok in OSH Park's order preview, so I placed an order for 3 test boards. Keep in mind that this isn't a fast turn-around like ExpressPCB (weeks instead of days).

 

 

Very reasonable at just $4.73 each, not bad for such a small order.

 

I updated the files on my website, so here is the link: TransKey-II-PIGGYBACK_pcb.zip

 

Contains both the ExpressPCB design files and a zipped folder containing the Gerber/NC Drill files (no need to unzip it, OSH Park will directly accept it as is).

 

Have fun,

 

- Michael

[Fuji-Man]

Now I got to get a count of how many I need... I may need a panel myself. lol.

 

FujiMan

[Van]

Oh very good! Did not realize the turn around time for the file conversion was so quick; already started laying out the XEGS version. But looks like it's a go, yea!

I'll edit what I have so far for my 'slim' fit version

Here is the Schema so far, pretty sure its fine, but if you spot an error please let me know!TransKey XEGS v1.pdf

I'm not sure about the PS2 connectors, but the PCB foot print looks the same as the one you used. The parts Lib listed it as Yamaichi MDO655. I assume the pin numbering is the same BUT...

Yogi

[+mytek]

Now I got to get a count of how many I need... I may need a panel myself. lol.

 

FujiMan

 

Not sure which style you need, but I just submitted the XEGS version design to be gerberized, so that should be available in a couple of days (I'll just add that to the PCB zip file on my site, and then pass the word here when its done). This conversion service is great stewartinstrumentsinc.com and it only costs $5 to convert a single layer board and $10 to convert a double layer board. Makes using ExpressPCB software a viable option.

 

- Michael

 

EDIT: Hi Yogi, I guess you were writing at the same time as I. I gotta get (wife calling me), but I'll check out your design this evening.

Edited September 26, 2015 by mytekcontrols

[Van]

 

Not sure which style you need, but I just submitted the XEGS version design to be gerberized, so that should be available in a couple of days (I'll just add that to the PCB zip file on my site, and then pass the word here when its done). This conversion service is great stewartinstrumentsinc.com and it only costs $5 to convert a single layer board and $10 to convert a double layer board. Makes using ExpressPCB software a viable option.

 

- Michael

 

EDIT: Hi Yogi, I guess you were writing at the same time as I. I gotta get (wife calling me), but I'll check out your design this evening.

Good deal

[+mytek]

Oh very good! Did not realize the turn around time for the file conversion was so quick; already started laying out the XEGS version. But looks like it's a go, yea!

I'll edit what I have so far for my 'slim' fit version

Here is the Schema so far, pretty sure its fine, but if you spot an error please let me know!TransKey XEGS v1.pdf

I'm not sure about the PS2 connectors, but the PCB foot print looks the same as the one you used. The parts Lib listed it as Yamaichi MDO655. I assume the pin numbering is the same BUT...

Yogi

 

Your schematic looks good. As for the connectors, I think they are all pretty much the same (at least all the ones I've looked at thus far).

 

I'll be curious to see what this 'slim version' looks like. When you get it done, can I add it to the other designs?

 

- Michael

[+mytek]

Gerber and NC files now available for XEGS version board: TransKey-II-XEGS_pcb.zip

 

I'll probably do a run of these as well through OSH Park to be sure there are no problems.

 

- Michael

[Van]

 

Your schematic looks good. As for the connectors, I think they are all pretty much the same (at least all the ones I've looked at thus far).

 

I'll be curious to see what this 'slim version' looks like. When you get it done, can I add it to the other designs?

 

- Michael

 

Thanks for taking a look. It's kind of moot as the Gerber conversion seem good to go. So unless someone needs Eagle versions for XEGS or piggyback design I'll move forward with the Slim.

For my needs, a piggyback won't work with a dual Pokey, so looking at having the TransKey ][ on a separate board. It will have a combo KB/Mouse mini-din so a PS 2 Y adapter would be needed.

I was also thinking of adding a USB socket and FTDI chip to the board for SIO to PC, much like Candle did. For a sort of 'all in one'

Anyway, yea you are more then welcome to host the design. None of this would be possible without your hard work

Yogi

Edited September 26, 2015 by Van

[+mytek]

 

Thanks for taking a look. It's kind of moot as the Gerber conversion seem good to go. So unless someone needs Eagle versions for XEGS or piggyback design I'll move forward with the Slim.

For my needs, a piggyback won't work with a dual Pokey, so looking at having the TransKey ][ on a separate board. It will have a combo KB/Mouse mini-din so a PS 2 Y adapter would be needed.

I was also thinking of adding a USB socket and FTDI chip to the board for SIO to PC, much like Candle did. For a sort of 'all in one'

Anyway, yea you are more then welcome to host the design. None of this would be possible without your hard work

Yogi

 

The Slim Hybrid design with SIO2PC-USB inclusive sounds like a great idea. Yeah putting both mouse and keyboard aspects into a single mini-din really makes sense, especially for someone that is planning to have only one of these devices. I might look into doing that on an alternative version of the XEGS design, now that I have an easy and inexpensive way to convert ExpressPCB files to Gerber.

 

The mouse part of this project is not likely to be something I'll necessarily use much, since the implementation is considerably different (being character based in movement). But for some things it could prove useful, and perhaps with the right kind of application geared towards its lower resolution it might be just the ticket. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

 

When you have something you feel is ready, I'd definitely like to add it to the collection. You can keep it in its native Eagle format since a lot of board houses accept that, and this way others can also use your design as the basis for something they would like to do in eagle as well.

 

Thank you,

 

- Michael

Edited September 26, 2015 by mytekcontrols

[Van]

 

The Slim Hybrid design with SIO2PC-USB inclusive sounds like a great idea. Yeah putting both mouse and keyboard aspects into a single mini-din really makes sense, especially for someone that is planning to have only one of these devices. I might look into doing that on an alternative version of the XEGS design, now that I have an easy and inexpensive way to convert ExpressPCB files to Gerber.

 

The mouse part of this project is not likely to be something I'll necessarily use much, since the implementation is considerably different (being character based in movement). But for some things it could prove useful, and perhaps with the right kind of application geared towards its lower resolution it might be just the ticket. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

 

When you have something you feel is ready, I'd definitely like to add it to the collection. You can keep it in its native Eagle format since a lot of board houses accept that, and this way others can also use your design as the basis for something they would like to do in eagle as well.

 

Thank you,

 

- Michael

So I just finished the schema for the 'Slim' that I am happy with. The FTDI is only offered in SMD so I did the design all SMD. I don't really like 'hand building' with such fine pitch but it does make for a compact design. If others really need through hole, can do it that way as an alt.

With the PIC in a SMD package I added an ICSP header for burning, but there is no isolation between the Console Switch header and the ICSP header. So would have to disconnect the board from the Atari for programming, but that should be only needed once(?).

The chosen USB socket is a B type. It's a little larger then the minis but more robust and about the same size as the PS-2. Hoping to have the two sockets side by side so a single rectangle hole in the case.

The FTDI is powered from the USB and the PIC/KB/Mouse draw power from the SIO Vcc; all the GNDs are common. So with no USB cable the FTDI should be powered down, but not sure on whether the chip can handle having the Tx Rx and RI pins being pulled high like this. So I may switch this up

Anyway, the board routing will take a little more time

Yogi

TransKey Slim v1.SMD.pdf

Oh yea, in regards to the mouse, I mapped the Clk and Data to pins 2 and 6. So if one only wanted a KB it should just work, but if you only wanted a mouse would have to have a converter cable that cross connected 6 to 5 and 2 to 1 ( which a Y adapter does for the mouse port).

Edited September 26, 2015 by Van

[+mytek]

With the PIC in a SMD package I added an ICSP header for burning, but there is no isolation between the Console Switch header and the ICSP header. So would have to disconnect the board from the Atari for programming, but that should be only needed once(?).

 

Yogi

 

 

No I do my development with a similar setup and leave it connected to the Atari. However after programming you need to disconnect it from the programmer otherwise TK wont boot up properly (at least not with the PICkit3 programmer). Of course this really isn't a problem for normal one time programming of the chip, but is a bit of a nuisance when developing code.

 

I'll look your schematic over either tonight or tomorrow (spending time with the family this weekend up in the mountains).

 

 

- Michael

[Van]

 

No I do my development with a similar setup and leave it connected to the Atari. However after programming you need to disconnect it from the programmer otherwise TK wont boot up properly (at least not with the PICkit3 programmer). Of course this really isn't a problem for normal one time programming of the chip, but is a bit of a nuisance when developing code.

 

I'll look your schematic over either tonight or tomorrow (spending time with the family this weekend up in the mountains).

 

 

- Michael

Oh I was assuming most would only need to prog once in awhile. With the through hole boards the chip is pulled to program it so pulling the the jumper cables didn't seem too bad.

For development a more robust interface may be needed to avoid interference on pins 4,12 and 13. Not sure I understand your setup, board connected to Atari and PICKIT attached for programming as needed? If this is the case, with no ill effects, cool! Just didn't know if the Pokey connection and Console switches would disrupt the programming. If it really needs isolation the simplest would be some jumpers, open for programming closed for normal.

Made a minor change to the FTDI circuit for self power from the Atari. The data sheet suggested the power control EEPROM bit should be re-programmed via the FTDI tool. It seems a simple operation, GUI based and straightforward over USB. The good news is with this setup the FT232 tri-states it's pins when in reset. (which would be the case when not connected to a host). I was concerned about blocking SIO transactions when not connected, but feeling sure this will work fine.

Well enjoy your weekend,

Yogi

[+mytek]

Oh I was assuming most would only need to prog once in awhile. With the through hole boards the chip is pulled to program it so pulling the the jumper cables didn't seem too bad.

For development a more robust interface may be needed to avoid interference on pins 4,12 and 13. Not sure I understand your setup, board connected to Atari and PICKIT attached for programming as needed? If this is the case, with no ill effects, cool! Just didn't know if the Pokey connection and Console switches would disrupt the programming. If it really needs isolation the simplest would be some jumpers, open for programming closed for normal.

Made a minor change to the FTDI circuit for self power from the Atari. The data sheet suggested the power control EEPROM bit should be re-programmed via the FTDI tool. It seems a simple operation, GUI based and straightforward over USB. The good news is with this setup the FT232 tri-states it's pins when in reset. (which would be the case when not connected to a host). I was concerned about blocking SIO transactions when not connected, but feeling sure this will work fine.

Well enjoy your weekend,

Yogi

 

Basically I modified one of my boards for in-circuit programming via The Microchip PICkit 3 programmer (see image below). So long story short I would leave the TK board plugged into the Atari, leave the PIC chip in the socket, and simply plug in the ICSP cable whenever I wanted to update the code during development. If the pins had been set-up to be isolated from the programmer, I could have left the programmer plugged in, but they weren't and so it would have to unplugged after reprogramming of the chip. Still much easier than constantly pulling out the chip and putting it back in. No ill effects otherwise.

 

 

TK-II-XEGS with ICSP cable

 

- Michael

[+mytek]

OSH Park has gone into production on both boards I sent them

 

 

 

So far so good

 

- Michael

 

[+mytek]

So I just finished the schema for the 'Slim' that I am happy with. The FTDI is only offered in SMD so I did the design all SMD. I don't really like 'hand building' with such fine pitch but it does make for a compact design. If others really need through hole, can do it that way as an alt.

With the PIC in a SMD package I added an ICSP header for burning, but there is no isolation between the Console Switch header and the ICSP header. So would have to disconnect the board from the Atari for programming, but that should be only needed once(?).

The chosen USB socket is a B type. It's a little larger then the minis but more robust and about the same size as the PS-2. Hoping to have the two sockets side by side so a single rectangle hole in the case.

The FTDI is powered from the USB and the PIC/KB/Mouse draw power from the SIO Vcc; all the GNDs are common. So with no USB cable the FTDI should be powered down, but not sure on whether the chip can handle having the Tx Rx and RI pins being pulled high like this. So I may switch this up

Anyway, the board routing will take a little more time

Yogi

TransKey Slim v1.SMD.pdf

Oh yea, in regards to the mouse, I mapped the Clk and Data to pins 2 and 6. So if one only wanted a KB it should just work, but if you only wanted a mouse would have to have a converter cable that cross connected 6 to 5 and 2 to 1 ( which a Y adapter does for the mouse port).

 

Hi Yogi,

 

Just check this against my schematic and Microchip's ICSP pin out. It looks like a go to me

 

- Michael

[Van]

Hi Michael,

Good deal on the ICSP, I'll leave the design as is.

 

 

Hi Yogi,

 

Just check this against my schematic and Microchip's ICSP pin out. It looks like a go to me

 

- Michael

Cool! Also good to hear your boards are in the soup (Also got my notice from OSHP today for a diff project)

 

So I got the board layout 99% done, and several rounds of tweaking things, so I'll drop some previews here. Still not sure of the mounting holes if any; thinking of locating the board above the SIO connector. Will print out a 1:1 and play around with the placement inside the case.

All the chip caps and resistors are 1206 packages and I opted for SMD electrolytics rather then tants (huge cost saving). All in all, the hardest to solder is the FTDI chip, but it is doable. I'll share the Mouser BOM (except the SIP Headers) also; if anyone does build a board, I would advise them to add a few extra chip caps and resistors to their order, they're dirt cheap and if you drop one during assembly, you could be SOL

TransKey Slim v1.1.SMD Dim.pdf

TransKey Slim v1.1.SMD Sch.pdf

TK SMD v 1.1 Mouser Proj.pdf

TransKey Slim v1.1.SMD Brd.pdf

Yogi

[+mytek]

Hi Michael,

Good deal on the ICSP, I'll leave the design as is.

 

Cool! Also good to hear your boards are in the soup (Also got my notice from OSHP today for a diff project)

 

So I got the board layout 99% done, and several rounds of tweaking things, so I'll drop some previews here. Still not sure of the mounting holes if any; thinking of locating the board above the SIO connector. Will print out a 1:1 and play around with the placement inside the case.

All the chip caps and resistors are 1206 packages and I opted for SMD electrolytics rather then tants (huge cost saving). All in all, the hardest to solder is the FTDI chip, but it is doable. I'll share the Mouser BOM (except the SIP Headers) also; if anyone does build a board, I would advise them to add a few extra chip caps and resistors to their order, they're dirt cheap and if you drop one during assembly, you could be SOL

TransKey Slim v1.1.SMD Dim.pdf

TransKey Slim v1.1.SMD Sch.pdf

TK SMD v 1.1 Mouser Proj.pdf

TransKey Slim v1.1.SMD Brd.pdf

Yogi

 

Wow that looks sweet!!! Hmmm.... Perhaps I'll go with one of these on my next All-In-One Atari Computer project I've been thinking about doing.

 

When you feel good about the layout, send me the Eagle files (or upload them here) and I'll also put them up on my website with full credit given to you of course

 

Just curious, what system of yours are you going to use this for?

 

- Michael

[Van]

 

Wow that looks sweet!!! Hmmm.... Perhaps I'll go with one of these on my next All-In-One Atari Computer project I've been thinking about doing.

 

When you feel good about the layout, send me the Eagle files (or upload them here) and I'll also put them up on my website with full credit given to you of course

 

Just curious, what system of yours are you going to use this for?

 

- Michael

Thx! It's a little bigger then I had first planned, but glad I added the SIO2PC. Got a couple 800XLs and a 600Xl will be putting them into.

I'll finish up this week and order a run, would like to verify the layout but if anyone wants to 'beta' build it I can release the files now (WIP and AtYourOwnRisk and all that).The overall design is done, just the mounting to-do, so don't think there will be much changing with the board. Knock wood!

Yogi

[+mytek]

IMPORTANT: CODE REVISION

 

Discovered a small problem with the Screen Saver status message. Basically I had accidentally inverted the logic, So when it showed 'Screen Saver = OFF' in reality it was ON, and vice versa for the opposite setting. Apparently this happened when I decided to change the status message from 'Attract Disabled = OFF' which has the opposite meaning. Anyway it is now fixed, and the Code Rev level has gone from 1.0 to 1.1, and can be downloaded HERE.

 

For anyone that has a chip burned with the previous code, functionally the Screen Saver disable state still works, but the message you receive when checking it (ALT+S) is backwards. Code version levels can be checked with ALT+F1.

 

- Michael

[+MacRorie]

So, my initial thoughts upon physically seeing this are: SMALL! Very nice and compact! I like the fact that the connection is a 10 pin header, should make finding connectors for folks very easy. I am thinking that I can get a splitter cable and, therefore, only have one connection coming out, but I will look at that in a bit. Also, the function key connection is very nicely done. I had to look up where to connect it on the motherboard, but very clear.

 

I saw above that it will not work with Stereo Pokey? Is this confirmed? Is this a space issue? This kinda changes my plans of where I am going to put it then. As time allows, I am going to put this in and test it. I will wire up the connector first and then install. I am hopeful someone can disabuse me of the notion it will not work in conjunction with a Stereo Pokey.

 

More later!

[+mytek]

So, my initial thoughts upon physically seeing this are: SMALL! Very nice and compact! I like the fact that the connection is a 10 pin header, should make finding connectors for folks very easy. I am thinking that I can get a splitter cable and, therefore, only have one connection coming out, but I will look at that in a bit. Also, the function key connection is very nicely done. I had to look up where to connect it on the motherboard, but very clear.

 

I saw above that it will not work with Stereo Pokey? Is this confirmed? Is this a space issue? This kinda changes my plans of where I am going to put it then. As time allows, I am going to put this in and test it. I will wire up the connector first and then install. I am hopeful someone can disabuse me of the notion it will not work in conjunction with a Stereo Pokey.

 

More later!

 

Yeah I need to create content on the AtariBits installation page to show installation. Also on the 600 & 800XL's there is a tall electrolytic capacitor sticking up that probably will interfere with the piggyback board as it stands presently. The problem is that one layout can not be made to work for all, and I chose to go the route of keeping it compatible with the stereo boards and also Bob's XL14 accelerator board when installed into a 1200XL.

 

Installation with Lotharek's Stereo Board

 

Installation with Candle's Stereo Board (but what's the point since it already has an AKI built-in)

 

The issue is not that it wont work with the Stereo Boards, but more to do with stacking height and not being able to clear the underside of the stock keyboard. Of course if you are putting this in a PC case no problem. And likely into a 1200XL would also be ok.

 

As for the 600/800XL capacitor problem, this could be easily solved by removing the original capacitor and installing a new one with enough lead length above the motherboard to allow it to be bent over flush with the motherboard.

 

I'm glad you are liking it thus far

 

- Michael

[Van]

 

Yeah I need to create content on the AtariBits installation page to show installation. Also on the 600 & 800XL's there is a tall electrolytic capacitor sticking up that probably will interfere with the piggyback board as it stands presently. The problem is that one layout can not be made to work for all, and I chose to go the route of keeping it compatible with the stereo boards and also Bob's XL14 accelerator board when installed into a 1200XL.

 

Installation with Lotharek's Stereo Board

 

Installation with Candle's Stereo Board (but what's the point since it already has an AKI built-in)

 

The issue is not that it wont work with the Stereo Boards, but more to do with stacking height and not being able to clear the underside of the stock keyboard. Of course if you are putting this in a PC case no problem. And likely into a 1200XL would also be ok.

 

As for the 600/800XL capacitor problem, this could be easily solved by removing the original capacitor and installing a new one with enough lead length above the motherboard to allow it to be bent over flush with the motherboard.

 

I'm glad you are liking it thus far

 

- Michael

When I installed the Lotharek's board I had to re-mount the cap for clearance and keep that board as low as possible to just barely clear the KB shield. Adding the Piggyback would be too high in my case. But using jumpers, the Piggyback could be mounted wherever.

Yogi

[+mytek]

When I installed the Lotharek's board I had to re-mount the cap for clearance and keep that board as low as possible to just barely clear the KB shield. Adding the Piggyback would be too high in my case. But using jumpers, the Piggyback could be mounted wherever.

Yogi

 

Yeah or even better because of its small size, you could use the XEGS version with jumpers as well, but it might be a little tricky to figure out how to mount it (maybe a U-shaped metal strap around the backside of the PS/2 connectors).

 

The cool thing about this since we have a cheap place to have boards made and can also easily get gerbers from the layouts produced in the ExpressPCB software, is that custom board versions could be created to accommodate anything.

 

- Michael

 

Yogi, do you recall what value that capacitor is?

Edited October 3, 2015 by mytekcontrols

[Stephen J. Carden]

I will probably build a couple of different mechanical version of this, but custom a-few-of-a-kind are expensive. If we can get Michael to add a bunch of cheap parts to this, maybe we can charge more. Nobody is going to pay $149 for that dinky little thing.

 

:>)

 

Bob

 

We Have a Krh-II which was designed to be installed from the underside of the mother board so anyone who was usingthe pokey stereo mod could use ours. Michael was kind enough to send me both of his and I am very impressed with what I have seen so far. the XE-Game System is super cool. At the moment I am using my KRH and KRH-II with a wireless keyboard and have it working. it is very cool to have a wireless keyboard driving my Atari Tower. I also suppect that Michales will also work with the wireless keyboard I have here. I just have not put that test together yet. for the first time ever there are three different keyboard interfaces for different hardware requirments. Most Cool. You can look on my web site for some info on the wireless keyboard I am using. Also out KRH-II will be selling for $25.00 plush shipping.

 

http://realdos.net

 

Take care all and enjoy.