Smokeless Joe Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Just assembled a TransKey-II and Joy2Pic. The Joy2Pic worked the first time! I booted the TKprog.atr disk (from http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247065-create-icsp-programmer-for-embedded-micro-controller-chips/?p=3409780), ran the TKPROG.COM program, the screen flashed for a minute or two and I got a report that it worked! Hooray! But I'm not having as much luck with the TKII. I installed it, the system boots, but I get no response from any keyboard, neither the system keyboard nor the one I have plugged into the TKII. I'm going to go rest now 'cause I got a headache from squinting at all the little parts, but I'm wondering: where I should start troubleshooting this? I'm installing this on a 1200XL with an U1MB, SIDE2 and one of Bryan's UAVs installed. I'm using a USB to PS/2 adapter to plug in an "Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad". So yeah, I'll see if I can dig up a regular ps/2 keyboard and see if that makes a difference, but would that cause the system keyboard to not work? I also didn't install the four wires to the function keys; could that be the problem? All help much appreciated, -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Just assembled a TransKey-II and Joy2Pic. The Joy2Pic worked the first time! I booted the TKprog.atr disk (from http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247065-create-icsp-programmer-for-embedded-micro-controller-chips/?p=3409780), ran the TKPROG.COM program, the screen flashed for a minute or two and I got a report that it worked! Hooray! But I'm not having as much luck with the TKII. I installed it, the system boots, but I get no response from any keyboard, neither the system keyboard nor the one I have plugged into the TKII. I'm going to go rest now 'cause I got a headache from squinting at all the little parts, but I'm wondering: where I should start troubleshooting this? I'm installing this on a 1200XL with an U1MB, SIDE2 and one of Bryan's UAVs installed. I'm using a USB to PS/2 adapter to plug in an "Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad". So yeah, I'll see if I can dig up a regular ps/2 keyboard and see if that makes a difference, but would that cause the system keyboard to not work? I also didn't install the four wires to the function keys; could that be the problem? All help much appreciated, -Joe The USB keyboard is likely the problem. Only some of these contain the PS/2 compatible code to allow it to work with a USB-to-PS/2 adapter. Definitely try your TK-II with a 'real' PS/2 keyboard to rule that out. Best of luck, and be sure to let us know what you find out. - Michael EDIT: As for the regular Atari keyboard not working, that could be due to the TK-II possibly starting up in XEGS mode, since it is a freshly programmed PIC chip. Only problem is that you need TK-II responding to the PS/2 keyboard first in order to change this setting, which is stored in the PIC's EEPROM (ALT+X shows the setting, CTRL+ALT+X toggles and saves it). What you want this set to for parallel keyboard operation is XEGS Mode = OFF. This usually defaults to XEGS Mode = ON with a freshly programmed chip to insure that TK-II works right out of the box no matter what (XEGS and 1200XL's without the stock internal keyboard plugged in require this to be ON for the PS/2 keyboard to work reliably). Edited March 13, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Just to add a little bit of encouragement, it's actually a good sign that your internal keyboard stopped working with the TK-II board installed. If you put an un-programmed PIC chip in the board, all of the PIC's I/O would likely default to inputs which would not interfere with your Atari. So it's another sign that the chip got programmed correctly, and is switching those I/O pins to outputs. Back to the USB keyboard and adapter. Even if the USB keyboard was a dual enabled device (USB & PS/2), TK-II might not necessarily have done exactly the right thing during initialization to make sure the keyboard switched to PS/2 mode. This is not something I put much time into, being more concerned with making it work primarily with all PS/2 keyboard variants. So basically no guarantees that TK-II will always initialize properly with a USB/PS2 keyboard. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 That is good news about the PIC chip. I don't think I've ever had a project work so perfectly the first time! I'm mostly just embarrassed that I spent two weeks assembling all the parts and I didn't even think to get a real ps/2 keyboard. Oh well. $10 keyboard from Amazon should arrive Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 That is good news about the PIC chip. I don't think I've ever had a project work so perfectly the first time! I'm mostly just embarrassed that I spent two weeks assembling all the parts and I didn't even think to get a real ps/2 keyboard. Oh well. $10 keyboard from Amazon should arrive Monday. I always find that thrift stores and computer recyclers are good sources for inexpensive PS/2 keyboards. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Just to add a little bit of encouragement, it's actually a good sign that your internal keyboard stopped working with the TK-II board installed. If you put an un-programmed PIC chip in the board, all of the PIC's I/O would likely default to inputs which would not interfere with your Atari. So it's another sign that the chip got programmed correctly, and is switching those I/O pins to outputs. Sure enough, I put in an un-programmed PIC chip and the internal keyboard worked fine. Then it stopped working again when I replaced with the programmed chip. There is much evidence to indicate that everything's working. I'm really looking forward to getting a ps/2 keyboard! I always find that thrift stores and computer recyclers are good sources for inexpensive PS/2 keyboards. And here we hit upon the paradox; I love my retro computers, but I want new things. Also, there's not much in the way of computer recyclers in my area, at least that I've found. Eh, I'll wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) For getting real USB on Transkey, one could use something like a MAX3421E (https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/interface/controllers-expanders/MAX3421E.html). It's connected via SPI and an interrupt line. The software stack could be a bit more challenging, I guess. Edited March 14, 2016 by JoSch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 For getting real USB on Transkey, one could use something like a MAX3421E (https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/interface/controllers-expanders/MAX3421E.html). It's connected via SPI and an interrupt line. The software stack could be a bit more challenging, I guess. Nice chip, but I doubt it'll be me that uses it to implement a USB version of TransKey. Basically I had a goal, and that goal was to take the idea I came up with in 1990 and have a do over that would allow it to go from 5-6 IC's and reduce it to one. I've accomplished my goal. Not to say that I'll never consider doing this, but the chances are very unlikely. It would be different if I was selling these like I did for the former version back in the 90's, but at this stage of my life I'm looking more for unique opportunities that excite the creativity in me. So TransKey is now one of those "been there, done that" sorta things, and I'm already looking at the next really cool thing to do instead. But like I said, that is a very nice chip, and I'll keep that in mind for some other possibilities . Thanks - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Nice chip, but I doubt it'll be me that uses it to implement a USB version of TransKey. Basically I had a goal, and that goal was to take the idea I came up with in 1990 and have a do over that would allow it to go from 5-6 IC's and reduce it to one. I've accomplished my goal. Not to say that I'll never consider doing this, but the chances are very unlikely. It would be different if I was selling these like I did for the former version back in the 90's, but at this stage of my life I'm looking more for unique opportunities that excite the creativity in me. So TransKey is now one of those "been there, done that" sorta things, and I'm already looking at the next really cool thing to do instead. But like I said, that is a very nice chip, and I'll keep that in mind for some other possibilities . Thanks - Michael Well, it's exactly the chip used in the standard Arduino USB shield. That's why I came up with that. Perhaps, if I'm ever bored, I'll do a Arduino USB version of Transkey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 It works! I bought this keyboard (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007R9YV0C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) and the TKII works with in beautifully. For some reason, typing on a (relatively) modern keyboard and having it output to the old Atari 8bit makes me giggle! Whee! Huge thanks to mytekcontrols, dmsc and everyone else for their parts in designing, programming and helping find parts for the TKII and the Joy2Pic. Once I got all the right parts, these wonderful inventions worked perfectly, essentially the first time I tried them. Hooray! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) It works! I bought this keyboard (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007R9YV0C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) and the TKII works with in beautifully. For some reason, typing on a (relatively) modern keyboard and having it output to the old Atari 8bit makes me giggle! Whee! Huge thanks to mytekcontrols, dmsc and everyone else for their parts in designing, programming and helping find parts for the TKII and the Joy2Pic. Once I got all the right parts, these wonderful inventions worked perfectly, essentially the first time I tried them. Hooray! Fantastic!! I'm glad to see you got it working You are probably the first independent person to build the TK-II + the Joy2Pic programmer and flash the PIC that went into the TK. So in essence no PC was ever required (Built for an Atari, with an Atari). - Michael EDIT: By the way I like that keyboard, looks like a very clean design. How do the keys feel? Edited March 15, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Well, it's exactly the chip used in the standard Arduino USB shield. That's why I came up with that. Perhaps, if I'm ever bored, I'll do a Arduino USB version of Transkey If you do decide to attempt this, let me know, and I'll gladly share my thoughts or answer any questions you might have (I did a lot of research, and also learned a lot about POKEY's quirks when it comes to doing reliable key sends). - Michael Edited March 15, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) If you do decide to attempt this, let me know, and I'll gladly share my thoughts or answer any questions you might have (I did a lot of research, and also learned a lot about POKEY's quirks when it comes to doing reliable key sends). - Michael I will ask you, because I would probably have a lot of questions, especially concerning the development environment and its programming language. Edited March 15, 2016 by JoSch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 EDIT: By the way I like that keyboard, looks like a very clean design. How do the keys feel? It's a good keyboard. I haven't used it for more than an hour at a time, but the keys are pretty quiet. They may feel a little soft, but I'm not a keyboard aficionado. Some of the Amazon reviewers hate the Enter and backslash placement, but I don't really notice it. I'm putting stickers on it from http://www.4keyboard.com/commodore/591-commodore-atari-non-transparent-keyboard-stickers-882798355469.html?search_query=Atari&results=2. Pictures coming soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Well, I have now installed all three versions in a machine. I have a TK-II piggyback with the interface board in the Bates Motel machine I have an XEGS "in" . . .wait for it . . . an XEGS. Finally, last night, I installed an XEGS-S inside of an 800XL. Works nicely. EXCEPT: When installing it in this environment, you should realize that the IDC wires do NOT match up to the DB15 pin numbers. You have to assign all of the odd wires (1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15) to Pins 1-8 and all of the even to Pins 9-15. Just the way the crimp DB15 is designed. Did not occur to me it would work that way, so I had to do this (picture). Since I had counted and soldered it to the bottom already and did not feel like undoing it. I will add some more pics later as well as some reviews of my thoughts on its use.. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 Well, I have now installed all three versions in a machine. I have a TK-II piggyback with the interface board in the Bates Motel machine I have an XEGS "in" . . .wait for it . . . an XEGS. Finally, last night, I installed an XEGS-S inside of an 800XL. Works nicely. EXCEPT: When installing it in this environment, you should realize that the IDC wires do NOT match up to the DB15 pin numbers. You have to assign all of the odd wires (1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15) to Pins 1-8 and all of the even to Pins 9-15. Just the way the crimp DB15 is designed. Did not occur to me it would work that way, so I had to do this (picture). Since I had counted and soldered it to the bottom already and did not feel like undoing it. I will add some more pics later as well as some reviews of my thoughts on its use.. Thanks! Yeah I really need to create a fan-out diagram for the TK-II-XEGS-S and post it. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) As promised here is a diagram showing the option of using the TK-II-XEGS 'S' version as a Solder-In Installation (uses a 15 pin D-sub Male -to- Ribbon Cable Connector and a suitable amount of said ribbon cable to reach the objective signal connections on the Atari). Atari Schematics This would also work for the TK-II-XEGS standard version, but would not be easy to mount due to the lack of mounting holes. As can be seen below, the 'S' version when used with the optional brackets, lends itself nicely to panel mounting. The threaded right angle mounting brackets are KEYSTONE 621 (JAMECO 1581530) which accept 4-40 screws. - Michael EDIT: The KEYSTONE 621 brackets have one hole at a slightly different offset from the edge, so if it doesn't look like it is center line with the PS/2 connector flip it over. Edited April 20, 2016 by mytekcontrols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Woo! I successfully tested the TransKey-II on an Atari 400! It's not a full installation yet because I don't know where to hook up the function key wires (I'll figure it out eventually), but it sure beats the membrane keyboard. I'll probably have to drill a hole or two in the faraday cage to run the keyboard cable out. Hmm... It's a little loose because the pins of 40-pin DIP socket I used on the board itself barely reach the POKEY socket. But that's a minor problem. PS/2 keyboard on a 400! Woo! -Joe Edited April 28, 2016 by Smokeless Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Oops, almost forgot the picture. Putting the stickers on the keyboard was less impressive than I thought it'd be. It's still fun, though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Looks like it turned out very well . And I personally like the bigger 'Enter' key myself. So what's the Fuji key going to do? - Michael EDIT: And I'm very surprised that it actually fit . I never had a 400 to look at when I was designing it, and judging by your photo it is amazing how close it came to the cartridge port and the row of green capacitors. Almost like I planned it that way (which I didn't). Edited April 28, 2016 by mytekcontrols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Still some of these available for anyone who is wondering.. Contact Fuji-Man. James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) Since I posted a mounting diagram for the TK-II-XEGS 'S' version earlier, I thought it would be nice to do the same for the TK-II-INTFC board (this is the board that provides the panel mounted jacks for the TK-II-PIGGYBACK board). TK-II-INTFC Mounting Details TK-II Family Portrait - Michael Edited May 12, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Still some of these available for anyone who is wondering.. Contact Fuji-Man. James Do you mean that some Transkeys are still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 My understanding is that they were never mass produced, just made by individuals who occasionally had some to spare. It's quite a journey assembling and programming one yourself, but you learn a lot and I recommend it! This forum and http://ataribits.weebly.com/design.htmlhelped me out a lot. Or you might get lucky and find someone with a spare for sale. Either way, good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) My understanding is that they were never mass produced, just made by individuals who occasionally had some to spare. It's quite a journey assembling and programming one yourself, but you learn a lot and I recommend it! This forum and http://ataribits.weebly.com/design.htmlhelped me out a lot. Or you might get lucky and find someone with a spare for sale. Either way, good luck! Stuffing all the extensions to my Ataris, I already learn enough I just balk at shelling out > 50 euros for a PIC programmer just for the Transkey. I'd rather have someone give me kit and let me solder everything together without any programming. Edited May 13, 2016 by JoSch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.