nathanallan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If I wasn't so covered up with projects, I'd take on making newer things to let the ST talk to new stuff. Really, the sky is the limit with this thing, and it needs to be done, just not by me. Too many other things I have to do that're taking all my time. It's a great device, the ST expansion port (as I choose to think of it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) ... I often wanted to make a Star Raiders cartridge for the ST to complete my collection of Star Raiders games for the Atari systems. As it is I have the floppy for the ST, but that is just not as fun as slapping in a cartridge and going. But as Curt mentioned it would probably come up as a virtual drive, you select the game image and load from inside the drive... but you get the idea. The problem was I believe the cartridge had a 128K ram limit. Star Raiders was like a 256K game. I'm sure bank switching would be possible like on other systems,... I have good news for you: Star Raiders can be placed on ST cartridge, using data packing. In same way as I did with Revenge of the Mutant Camels: http://atari.8bitchip.info/cartST.html There are some guides, but if it is problem for you, I can make for you Star Raiders for cartridge, so you can then put it in EPROMs and use with Atari. I don't think that ST cartridge port was designed for games. Otherwise it would have more than 128KB space. And why expensive cartridges, when machine has floppy drive. Cartridge for games was interesting on XL800. And it is not designed as some real expansion port too. There are only few lines available, which are specially made for 4x 32KB (27256) EPROMs. I'm sure that main aim was usage of cartridge as diagnostic tool. It could be much better usable if there would be support for write at least. Of course, write can be solved using diverse tricks, but that is usually pretty slow, or must stop every other activity in machine while writing to outside - CATA. Edited August 21, 2014 by ParanoidLittleMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have good news for you: Star Raiders can be placed on ST cartridge, using data packing. In same way as I did with Revenge of the Mutant Camels: http://atari.8bitchip.info/cartST.html There are some guides, but if it is problem for you, I can make for you Star Raiders for cartridge, so you can then put it in EPROMs and use with Atari. I don't think that ST cartridge port was designed for games. Otherwise it would have more than 128KB space. And why expensive cartridges, when machine has floppy drive. Cartridge for games was interesting on XL800. And it is not designed as some real expansion port too. There are only few lines available, which are specially made for 4x 32KB (27256) EPROMs. I'm sure that main aim was usage of cartridge as diagnostic tool. It could be much better usable if there would be support for write at least. Of course, write can be solved using diverse tricks, but that is usually pretty slow, or must stop every other activity in machine while writing to outside - CATA. Actually that is good news. Amazing what is eventually possible. Might need to get with you and figure out how much would be involved (cost) for putting Star Raiders on a cart. The label and all I would take care of. But that would be fun. And maybe if that is not too bad also a Joust cartridge, since that is my other collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Invader Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm surprised no one's mentioned the NetUSBee. It's an ethernet port adaptor that allows the ST to go online with a standard ethernet cable: http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=73 I only found out about the NetUSBee recently and I'm still trying to decide whether it's worth the investment or not. Sure, it's cool to go online with an ST, but there doesn't seem to be a lot you can do apart from visit a few select websites and download software straight onto your ST instead of having to transfer files via your PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Actually that is good news. Amazing what is eventually possible. Might need to get with you and figure out how much would be involved (cost) for putting Star Raiders on a cart. The label and all I would take care of. But that would be fun. And maybe if that is not too bad also a Joust cartridge, since that is my other collection. So, you don't have equipment to programm EPROMs, and also need printed circuit boards ? I can programm EPROMs, and posting to you, but shipment to Texas from Central Eu. will cost more than all it costs, I guess. Should see is some of Atari HW people has some cartridge boards ... For begin, I will prepare ROM content of Star Raiders and with Joust . Later needs some extra code, as has title pic load before starting main PRG. But that's easy to do, and will be fine to update that page with some new games and solutions ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji-Man Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) fwiw, I have a cart for data acquisition for the ST, but no docs. It has a MC68705P3S and 5 other surface mount chips inside and a 40 conductor ribbon cable coming from it. PCB reads: Atari KEY Rev. 1 Copyright 1990 Instrutech Corp Elmont, NY USA Edited August 22, 2014 by Fuji-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I did cartridge content with Star Raiders. It is little different than case of Revenge of Mutant Camels, because Star Raiders must be start from Desktop - it uses AES menu at game start ( to select level, start game ..). So, it can not auto-run. Highscore save goes on floppy A. Other cartridge is with 2 games: Joust and Moon Patrol. I added Moon Patrol because Joust takes only some 38 KB . After reset there is small menu to select which game to run, or to continue to Desktop. Both games can be start from Desktop too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredder11 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'm surprised no one's mentioned the NetUSBee. It's an ethernet port adaptor that allows the ST to go online with a standard ethernet cable: http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=73 I only found out about the NetUSBee recently and I'm still trying to decide whether it's worth the investment or not. Sure, it's cool to go online with an ST, but there doesn't seem to be a lot you can do apart from visit a few select websites and download software straight onto your ST instead of having to transfer files via your PC. There was also the Hydra ethernet cartridge board from around 2010 which was the NetUSBee minus the USB port, and the USB had barely any uses due to lack of hardware drivers. Might as well buy one and have a muck around with it and then sell it on to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I did cartridge content with Star Raiders. It is little different than case of Revenge of Mutant Camels, because Star Raiders must be start from Desktop - it uses AES menu at game start ( to select level, start game ..). So, it can not auto-run. Highscore save goes on floppy A. Other cartridge is with 2 games: Joust and Moon Patrol. I added Moon Patrol because Joust takes only some 38 KB . After reset there is small menu to select which game to run, or to continue to Desktop. Both games can be start from Desktop too. Oh that is cool, and nice choice of adding Moon Patrol. I have yet to try the ST version. So how much would it cost to make cartridges for these games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) I looked some other classic Atari games. There is many which can not fit in 128 KB space. As ideal candidate for some new system development I found Missile Command. Packed, it takes some 80 KB, including color and monochrome executables, It is "ideal" because contains not only executables, like Star Raiders, Moon Patrol, but there are title picture files. Additionally, it is also GEM program (same programmer as by Star Raiders), so must be started from Desktop. Because no way to load some file from cartridge in regular way (via filesystem commands) I decided to go Ramdisk solution. By creating Ramdisk C, and then starting game from it. It gave me possibility for auto start too - using Install Application, Boot Status=AUTO , save Desktop ... Then game will start after reset, AES, Desktop start automatically - works only on TOS 1.04 and higher. On older TOS you can still run it from cartridge by opening c (lower case c) . I will soon add mentioned cartridge game solutions to my site. Considering price of cartridges with programmed EPROMs with games, or anything else, I need to look for PCB boards first. Price depends mostly from their prices. There are 2 ways in HW: using 2x 64KB capacity EPROMs. Or more interesting way: using Flash EPROMs of bigger capacity - which are cheaper btw, because plastic case. Then can put multiple games in them, and select which one will be active with some switch or jumpers - after reset. 4Mb Flash EPROMs mean total capacity of 8Mb=1MB, so 8 normal cartridges content in one. Of course, if your goal is to have multiple cartridges, with nice labels, then first solution is for you I would like to know is there other people interested in ST cartridges ? I can sell only boards, or programming anything by wish in EPROMs. That will help in ordering proper amount of pcbs. Edited August 28, 2014 by ParanoidLittleMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Or more interesting way: using Flash EPROMs of bigger capacity - which are cheaper btw, because plastic case. Then can put multiple games in them, and select which one will be active with some switch or jumpers - after reset. 4Mb Flash EPROMs mean total capacity of 8Mb=1MB, so 8 normal cartridges content in one. Of course, if your goal is to have multiple cartridges, with nice labels, then first solution is for you Huh. Liking the second idea. Load that up with images of a bunch of basic games, maybe throw in other basics, like a term program (perhaps the VT100 cart image), and perhaps other basic things you would want in a all in one cart like a simple word processor (perhaps 1st Word), a simple drawing program, etc. eight normal cartridges, all programs have to be 128K? I will have to see what else exists that is that small. Be cool if there was ever a simple BBS program that was under 128K to throw on that cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Well, in meantime I got third idea : it will raise little price, because need to add little logic to board, but likely can be solved with 1 GAL chip. Instead manual bank switch using switch controllable by SW - by giving proper instructions you select what bank is active. With that, you can put larger programs on cartridge, because code controlling file loadings will switch to proper bank where data segment, file is placed. It needs little plus work in preparing SW for cartridge, but is not much different than adapting games for hard disk run. And it means even more comfort for short games: instead bothering with switch, you will get menu with 8 choices after reset, and with keypress desired game will start. But it depends from count of interested people too. Doing only 1 piece of it is really not economic. And must mention that you will still need floppy, for saving things - like high scores, game progress, or edited text in Word Processor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) I did some other games for cartridge in meantime. For instance even Xenon fits, without title pic. Or Manix. But lack of writing is not good thing. What could be solved with Flash EPROMs, btw. , only that then it will be pretty complicated and not so cheap. Additionally, I looked about availability of Flash EPROMs suitable for this, and situation is not good. All above makes me to go different route, what will have lot of benefits, and will be not more expensive than writable EPROM solution: cartridge with Compact Flash card. It will be physically just little bigger than usual ST cartridge - since it must contain 2 EPROMs for work + CF socket. But then we will have way bigger capacity, and can use existing SW, which is runnable from hard disks, without need for adapting to cartridge - what means about 1000 titles at moment. HW design of cartridge CF adapter is already done, there is driver SW for too. Need only to put it in manufacturing. What will be not right now, I have some other project to resolve first. But can work on SW - here mean some user friendly menu system for starting games from CF card - what was proposed by some people already. Selecting game with cursors or joystick, mouse and run it, instead doing it via Desktop. Ideas are welcome - just not something hard to code Doctorclu, what you think about it ? Edited September 19, 2014 by ParanoidLittleMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggyone76 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) I've got a NetUSBee card on this port. Idem on my Falcon. (I remember the MV16 for the game B.A.T., no ???) Edited September 19, 2014 by huggyone76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I would like to know is there other people interested in ST cartridges ? I can sell only boards, or programming anything by wish in EPROMs. That will help in ordering proper amount of pcbs. If this were possible, I think this would be tremendous. There are plenty of options for getting stuff onto the ST, but I think if this worked the way you're speculating, this would be among the easiest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 But it depends from count of interested people too. Doing only 1 piece of it is really not economic. And must mention that you will still need floppy, for saving things - like high scores, game progress, or edited text in Word Processor. That much is true. Well, just for collecting sake, how much to make a cartridge for Star Raiders, and possibly Joust and Moon Patrol all individual cartridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galax Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) I think it would be quite cool to have ST cartridges that work just like cartridges for other older systems- throw a cartridge in and switch on the ST, and it loads the game. I've seen a few single file versions of ST games recently that were packed down quite small and would fit into 128K (sometimes less than half that!): Arkanoid 1 & 2, Metro Cross, Overlander, Cybernoid, Joust, Star Raiders, there must be tons of others too. A multicart would be even better - I like the CF or SD card idea, sort of like UlstraSatan but with no setting up or configuration, just plug it into the cartridge slot and go, instant access to all those amazing hard disk conversions. I'd buy one for sure, perfect for an ST in the living room under the TV. Edited September 27, 2014 by galax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian1 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Cartridge based ST games would be great for Atari shows too. I bring my Atari STs to classic computer shows around my area (including the Atari Party). I had one person say they liked playing with the other Atari computers and video games systems more because they load up very fast because they are cartridge based. On the ST, you have to boot up the system to TOS, double click to open up the GEM window, double click on the program and then wait a minute to load. People start to lose interest or think something is wrong with the machine when the game is slowly loading by floppy. Instant loading ST games would be cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Good arguments folks. I understand that the goal is exactly the simple and fast usage. Even better would be to make possible work without keyboard - but that's really possible only with games which can be played with joystick or mouse, without keyboard. I made so far code for 10 games, to put them on 128K cartridge space. Hardest case was Manix. Idea with my last post was to use hard disk type storage system - mostly because it is done already + it allows writes, so can save positions, high scores etc. + it allows user to make own compilations, and possibly even to configure start menu by own taste. Latest needs making of proper SW. And that's only what is needed in coding (SW) side. Then it will work practically like usual cartridge: fast start without boot - what will show up menu, where can quickly select desired game. So, no going in Desktop at all. Even those few games, which require AES, like Star Raiders can be started automatically. In any case, I will look to make first EPROM based version, as classic simple cartridge, for couple interested people. Can not say price at moment. Stay tuned 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp060 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Rather than start a new thread, I was wondering if anyone could unearth a copy of the disk that came with IMG Scan by Seymor-Radix ?I acquired a ComputerEyes and an IMG Scan. There was also a ramdisk made by Alpha System's that used the cartridge port, 512kb and a 1mb version. Seen it at a World of Atari Show in Michigan. The CodeHeads released a driver for it, minus some bugs if I remember right. Edited January 11, 2017 by lp060 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The only cart I've for the ST is my Discovery cart, not every useful today with most of the ST software unprotected now. http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/devices/dc.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Rather than start a new thread, I was wondering if anyone could unearth a copy of the disk that came with IMG Scan by Seymor-Radix ? I acquired a ComputerEyes and an IMG Scan. There was also a ramdisk made by Alpha System's that used the cartridge port, 512kb and a 1mb version. Seen it at a World of Atari Show in Michigan. The CodeHeads released a driver for it, minus some bugs if I remember right. Lonnie, I have an IMG Scan. Pretty sure the software is still in the box with the unit. I'll image it if it truly is still there. Confidence is high. -Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I currently have the NetUSBee and a universal diagnostic cartridge. I'm very interested in the huge game cartridge, but the last posts are a few years old, @ParanoidLittleMan anything happen with this project? I think your last mention was a few years ago now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp060 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Lonny, I have an IMG Scan. Pretty sure the software is still in the box with the unit. I'll image it if it truly is still there. Confidence is high. -Pete That would be awesome. IMG Scan had competition.. Pictascan from E. Arthur Brown Co. which was more or less the same idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That would be awesome. IMG Scan had competition.. Pictascan from E. Arthur Brown Co. which was more or less the same idea. Sorry it took me a couple of days, but I found it. imgscan.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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