RetroN 77

[Thomas Jentzsch]

What's wrong with using a keyboard?

Too far away from my couch.

 

Else I'd need a very long USB extender cable. Or Bluetooth.

[Hyperboy]

This is what I use:

 

Logitech K400 920-007119 Plus Wireless Touch Keyboard with Keyboard for TV Connected Computer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014EUQOGK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_dpkFzbM4CD8F6

 

Sent from my Phrenologists waiting room.

[+stephena]

Too easy.

 

And IMO there are too many controllers which have no extra buttons.

 

But all the other systems (Retron77 presumably, Flashback, etc) have extra buttons on the stick for this reason. I assume if they could get away with leaving the extra button out, they would. So there doesn't seem to be a way around it.

 

In any event, I was referring to the fact that the 2600daptor can use more buttons than the normal controller. TBH, I can't think of any other way to add functionality to a joystick when its directions and single button are already being used for something else.

[Flojomojo]

This is what I use:

 

Logitech K400 920-007119 Plus Wireless Touch Keyboard with Keyboard for TV Connected Computer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014EUQOGK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_dpkFzbM4CD8F6

 

Sent from my Phrenologists waiting room.

My thought exactly. Just a USB port is needed. I'm using that same thing on my Steam Link now.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

TBH, I can't think of any other way to add functionality to a joystick when its directions and single button are already being used for something else.

Well, Stella could track the input and look for a certain pattern. It could even analyze the game's normal input, select a non-conflicting pattern and display it in a little menu on screen. And since Atari is 4:3 and modern TVs are 16:9 and most monitors too, there is plenty of space in the left and right borders.

 

Now that I think about it, this space could be used for multiple purposes.

 

But probably a simple Bluetooth keyboard is the much easier solution.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Swami]

What a steal! Did you win this???

 

 

 

It's cool that you could hack your own port, but there are supposed to be serious compatibility issues with carts. It's more of a novelty item, for me.

 

I like the idea of handling real carts because they're out there, they still function fine, and they are pretty cheap, for the most part. If it works, doesn't take up much room, and it doesn't cost me much, I'll reuse rather than throw away. I'm far from an environmentalist, but like re-purposing, & reusing. There's still so much NIB/CIb/Loose stuff from Atari that's now decades old. If it works, I'll use it!

No, didn't win it. Compatibility issues with carts as hizzy said and limited to AV. Think I'd rather wait for something better. With actual 2600's and Stella this would probably just take up room. Seems like more of a collector's type item. It did go for less than I thought, though. Figured someone would bid $50 at least, just for the novelty. Something like the Retron 77 that had Stella 5 or later, HDMI, but also AV for light gun games, would be perfect.

 

Edit: There also appears to be no B&W/Color switch, which is used for a lot of homebrews.

[Flojomojo]

Yes, I'd pay $50 right now if someone is tired of theirs!

[Keatah]

Now that I think about it, this space could be used for multiple purposes.

 

Like fake wood paneling for simulated 70's tv set.

 

 

But probably a simple Bluetooth keyboard is the much easier solution.

 

Definitely. And it would be universal. Everyone could get it for cheap.

 

But what about a combination of illegal moves like left+right simultaneously. Something a real joystick can be easily modded for. Wire in extra buttons that would allow illegal positions:

 

left + right = reset

up + down = game select

 

up + left + right = ?

down + left + right = ?

And so on..

 

Use the fire button as a modifier for even more possibilities? And it should be easy enough for first-time modders. The worst that could happen is they mess up a $10 joystick.

[Keatah]

What's wrong with using a keyboard?

 

Nothing. And a wireless keyboard would bring all the controllability and options to your couch. Print an overlay to spiff it up. Or get in the modding mood and wire in some buttons or something. Just because.

[Keatah]

On this sub-topic of handling cartridges. It's something I totally dislike. The clutter that physicality causes. The lack of density in the memory circuits. 2K in a box that big!! Ohh my!!

 

But make no mistake, a well groomed, cleaned, and organized wall of carts isn't a bad thing to behold. It's like a library and a conversation piece - if you hang with people that appreciate such things.

 

I feel this way now. I felt that way back in the day.

[Flojomojo]

The lack of density in the memory circuits. 2K in a box that big!! Ohh my!!

1956: 5MB hard drive being loaded onto an airplane. I wonder if you could fit 2,500 Combat cartridges into that volume?

The 350 Disk Storage Unit consisted of the magnetic disk memory unit with its access mechanism, the electronic and pneumatic controls for the access mechanism, and a small air compressor. Assembled with covers, the 350 was 60 inches long, 68 inches high and 29 inches deep. It was configured with 50 magnetic disks containing 50,000 sectors, each of which held 100 alphanumeric characters, for a capacity of 5 million characters.

Disks rotated at 1,200 rpm, tracks (20 to the inch) were recorded at up to 100 bits per inch, and typical head-to-disk spacing was 800 microinches. The execution of a "seek" instruction positioned a read-write head to the track that contained the desired sector and selected the sector for a later read or write operation. Seek time averaged about 600 milliseconds.

[Keatah]

yes you cud.

[Good_Times]

1956: 5MB hard drive being loaded onto an airplane. I wonder if you could fit 2,500 Combat cartridges into that volume?

 

Pic reminds me of my (old, bitter) computer lab teacher in middle school...... "Back in MY day a computer filled an entire damned ROOM and a basic calculator cost $100!! Nowadays, you kids all have computers in your HOMES and walk around with friggin calculators strapped to your WRISTS!! But do you APPRECIATE it?!"

 

The notion of a "room sized computer" always made my thoughts wander....

 

[hizzy]

On this sub-topic of handling cartridges. It's something I totally dislike. The clutter that physicality causes. The lack of density in the memory circuits. 2K in a box that big!! Ohh my!!

 

But make no mistake, a well groomed, cleaned, and organized wall of carts isn't a bad thing to behold. It's like a library and a conversation piece - if you hang with people that appreciate such things.

 

I feel this way now. I felt that way back in the day.

 

I understand that completely. It makes sense. Clutter is annoying!

 

I work at a University, and students are always talking to me about plastic, how it lasts for years and years, and I guess I heard so much that I've started taking them seriously

 

I know Al would love to get cart shells made, but I think it's great how he's saved so much plastic from the landfill. I try to not buy so much bottled water, and I use re-usable containers for restaurant take out. A part of vintage gaming that I appreciate is how it saves stuff from the trash. Saving old things has taught me how to solder, and give existing stuff a second life. In that way, I guess I don't care so much if the retron 77 ever comes out. It would be nice to have one, but when I think about how much plastic & packaging would go into putting retron 77 on the shelf, I would rather just fix an old console up, customize it into something badass, or just play on Stella.

[Flojomojo]

 

Pic reminds me of my (old, bitter) computer lab teacher in middle school...... "Back in MY day a computer filled an entire damned ROOM and a basic calculator cost $100!! Nowadays, you kids all have computers in your HOMES and walk around with friggin calculators strapped to your WRISTS!! But do you APPRECIATE it?!"

 

The notion of a "room sized computer" always made my thoughts wander....

 

superman-iii-computer-robot-cyborg.jpg

Heh, Superman III, what a piece of work. Needs more labels, like this.

 

 

 

 

 

Whoa, Superman III's computer looks a LOT like the "atomic pile" from 1966 Batcave

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Like fake wood paneling for simulated 70's tv set.

 

 

 

Definitely. And it would be universal. Everyone could get it for cheap.

 

But what about a combination of illegal moves like left+right simultaneously. Something a real joystick can be easily modded for. Wire in extra buttons that would allow illegal positions:

 

left + right = reset

up + down = game select

 

up + left + right = ?

down + left + right = ?

And so on..

 

Use the fire button as a modifier for even more possibilities? And it should be easy enough for first-time modders. The worst that could happen is they mess up a $10 joystick.

When you start enabling hotkeys for stuff like U+D or L+R, you start breaking compatibility with non-standard controllers.

 

Paddles support L+R, Driving controllers support U+D, keypads do weird stuff, and trackballs can at any moment output any one of 16 directional combinations plus fire. Starplex can manually input anything. Some VCS joysticks will also register all four values by mashing down the shaft dead center. You can glitch out Ms Pacman that way with an ordinary CX-40.

 

So hacks where you use diode-protected buttons tied to multiple inputs, and some logic inside the unit to decode and translate the effect, "Mash three directions simultaneously to toggle Select, Reset, pause/BW" can completely break compatibility with trackballs, Starplex, and other specialty controllers.

[Keatah]

..and that's why things would need to be configurable. My preferred solution is the simple one, wireless keyboard and mouse or pad. OR something completely custom like an X-Arcade stick style "sub-console" with buttons and switches. Something like that.

[Keatah]

I work at a University, and students are always talking to me about plastic, how it lasts for years and years, and I guess I heard so much that I've started taking them seriously

 

I know Al would love to get cart shells made, but I think it's great how he's saved so much plastic from the landfill. I try to not buy so much bottled water, and I use re-usable containers for restaurant take out. A part of vintage gaming that I appreciate is how it saves stuff from the trash. Saving old things has taught me how to solder, and give existing stuff a second life. In that way, I guess I don't care so much if the retron 77 ever comes out. It would be nice to have one, but when I think about how much plastic & packaging would go into putting retron 77 on the shelf, I would rather just fix an old console up, customize it into something badass, or just play on Stella.

 

Personally I don't give a rat's ass a-care about recycling and "saving the planet" or any of that environmentalist hogwash. And I'm going to tell you why.

 

The amount of damage (or not) that I could do in a lifetime would be overshadowed completely by a Fortune 500 company operating production for 10 minutes longer.

 

Look. We are nowhere near running out of landfill space. All the garbage generated by humans (to date) wouldn't fill a landfill 50 Square Miles in size! So all this "landfill is full" ranting by politicians and environmentalists is bullshit. It's all a locally generated problem by politicians and businesses jockeying for position.

 

And there is, what, 73% of the Earth's land not being used for living space? And only 3% of the Earth's land is urban areas. That basically means thousands upon thousands upon thousands of square miles are available for garbage dumping. Billions of acres!! And 50% of the United States' land is unused. Fresh. Virgin.

 

Or put it more simply, about 10% of all the land on planet Earth is covered by humans and their constructs and day-to-day toiling. These facts can be quantified through many methods. Satellite imagery and remote sensing. Mathematical extrapolation. Census. By many techniques.

 

And America alone has many "thousands of years of landfill space" easily available. That's not counting the existing ones as they decay. No problem there.

 

So yeh. I don't bother with "conservation" of any sort unless it affects my immediate surroundings, like my hobby room or desk space.

 

---

 

When I have computer stuff I no longer need, and it isn't genuine vintage (pre-Pentium Pro) I just put the shit curbside. It's usually gone in good time, likely picked up by someone who needs it or will melt it down for metals. Not worth my time and effort to haul it to a recycling center.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

...can completely break compatibility with trackballs, Starplex, and other specialty controllers.

Since Stella has to know the controller anyway, it could easily use different combinations for different controllers.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Personally...

No politics, please.

[Keatah]

Someone once argued with me that an emulation of a machine (Stella for example) cannot be more efficient than the original machine (VCS console). Someone want to comment on this? Because.. With advancements in small-geometry microprocessors I don't see how that statement can hold true.

 

Maybe they meant something else?

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Personally I don't give a rat's ass a-care about recycling and "saving the planet" or any of that environmentalist hogwash. And I'm going to tell you why.

 

...

Keatah I know much of your post was in jest and no offense but that's a terrible idea. Don't shit where you live.

 

[i removed the rest of my post out pertaining to future eco sustainability as it is irrelevant to the topic at hand]

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Keatah I know...

I know its hard (and I was very tempted to answer too), but please: strictly no politics here.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I understand that completely. It makes sense. Clutter is annoying!

 

I work at a University, and students are always talking to me about plastic, how it lasts for years and years, and I guess I heard so much that I've started taking them seriously

 

Hizzy, it's more than saving plastics from landfills but preserving history. Atari 2600 carts are no longer manufactured so recycling them for homebrew reduces the pool of existing carts. This means any discontinued or vintage commodity being upcycled is a non-renewable resource. And yes upcycling vintage junk is cool, but eventually that junk becomes collectible after 99% of old stock is destroyed. CRTs for instance get thrown away every day but eventually people will stop landfilling working units when they become collectible artifacts.

 

Injection molding new carts takes labor out of cleaning/prepping old shells, as well as creates a sustainable ecosystem for homebrew in the future. FPGAs will get cheap and common ultimately resulting in premium high compatibility clones compatible with HD output. Janky clone hardware is just a stop-gap measure but true retro enthusiasts will pay extra for quality products.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I know its hard (and I was very tempted to answer too), but please: strictly no politics here.

Sorry I am done on the topic. Keatah's post was assinine even if meant to be sarcastic. Environmentalism to me is less about politics and more about respect for the planet. Not trying to fuel a debate.