Tutorvision games - Interest check

[+Lathe26]

Answers to the big questions:

• Does it work? No. The RF jack is broken, most likely because it was stored or shipped with the RF cable plugged into the jack (adds leverage to anything that hits it). The center pin is still attached but the outer shell is not. Seller says it worked when it was tested 6 months ago before it was shrink-wrapped.
• Is it repairable? Maybe. I should be able to solder the jack back into place. However, if the whole RF modulator is broken, I haven't been able to find a replacement part (only briefly looked). Alternatively, I could attempt an AV mod upgrade to it and bypass the RF modulator entirely. Are there any AV mods that work with this board (not sure if the AV mods are compatible with this uncommon board).
• What does it do when plugged in? Using my trusty Astrosmash testing cart (while broken, the RF jack still has its center pin attached), it only comes up to a solid green or sometimes solid red screen (couple times saw solid purple). It is usually silent but occasionally will generate a pure tone that steps down in volume. Because I am seeing solid colors rather than static (what I would expect from such a broken RF jack), I am concerned there is something else wrong with it.
• What can be said about serial # 8800? From visual inspection of the chips, we know/suspect it has the following:
  • New STIC chip (the 8930 version)
  • Full GRAM (not the normal 1/4 of the GRAM the STIC can handle that most Intellivisions have)
  • The full GRAM is NOT disabled by jumpers
  • New GROM
  • Appears to have the non-WBEXEC ROM. It is missing the "WBEXEC" printing and has a manufacture number for the 19th week of 1989 instead of the 29th week of 1989 (as seen on other WBEXEC chips). Can anyone confirm whether 8919 has EXEC 1, EXEC 2, or WBEXEC from the prior Super Pro Tutorvisions.
  • The ROM is socketed. Theoretically, a chip swap would be an easy ROM upgrade.

Feel free to correct any mistakes or comment on anything overlooked.

 

 

 

[+Lathe26]

One more photo of the jack (you can see the coils inside).

 

[mr_me]

An Intellivision II exec would clash with the extra 16-bit memory. Not sure what the exact part number is; yours is marked RO9580/P586 3504-730A. Wbexec is marked RO9580/P587 3504-730A. I could be wrong but my guess is P587 is the wbexec and P586 is the original Intellivision exec. If it's not the wbexec, I'm not sure how you could find/make a replacement. It's not a big deal since you could address the missing exec through the cartridge port or an LTOFlash with a firmware update. Once you get it working you could check the roms with Joe's checksum utility.

 

Would a regular old rf modulator not be part compatible with this one? The green screen is concerning; seems that something else might be wrong. Hopefully it's the rf modulator.

 

So your SN A-8800 might be functionally similar to SN A-8644. That one has an Intellivision original exec, chip markings could be compared with yours. The SN A-8833 is an old style Intellivision board with an Intellivision II exec. The two other ones with an Tutorvision/INTV88 board are in the SN A-031xxx range. I suspect the serial numbers in between in the A-02xxxx range are just regular Intellivisions. If anyone has a made in USA INTV Super Pro or System III it would be good to get confirmation on what's inside.

 

I have a question. Does yours have the metal shield on the one side of the board. Would a metal shield even fit on the other side with that larger capacitor there (not sure what sticks out more the capacitor or rf modulator)

Edited December 11, 2017 by mr_me

[+the1hatman]

Welcome Lathe to the Tudor-Pro family! Hopefully we have more people here discover some of these and grow this new club in the Intellivision world.

[JoeM_Intellivision]

I hope I have one but I am not tech savvy and feel more stupid with each passing post by the people who actually know what they are looking at:) Maybe some time in New Year someone can help me - I think I may have a grand total of 5 or 6 Super Pro System (2) & INTV System III (3 or 4) w/one being a very low serial # I think I recall and booting up but acting funny like I’ve never seen a System so before with baseball as my go to test cart. On a somewhat related side note and NOT to hijack the thread with a million condolences just PM if you wish - My beloved sister and only sibling lost her 3-year battle with colorectal cancer on October 16, 2017 at the young age of 51 - she was special and a fighter I wouldn’t have lasted 1/2 year - I’m a whiney bitch when I have a two-week common cold. Anyways, she bought me my Intellivision III System in 1987 from Toys R Us in NJ for $69.99 to replace my 2nd broken regular Inty, and I used that fucker on and off until around Mid 2005 before I made my permanent switch to a Sears Telegames Unit. It worked fine when I packed it away in original box with packing materials in 2005 and I can’t misplace it because the top left button on the left controller was dented in a good bit from SO much use. It was always sentimental to me but more so now Obviously!

RIP BEST BIG SISTER!!

#RosannaStrong

[+the1hatman]

The easiest way to see if any of your systems is a Tudor-Pro is to look in the vents on the back side just to the right of the serial number sticker. If you can see jumper markings like JP0 to JP6 then you have the Tudor-Pro board. Lathe26 posted an excellent picture of this HERE. This is what they look like outside of the case HERE (bottom right of the pic). If you do not see these through the vents then it is not a Tudor-Pro and there is no need to open the case up.

 

If you do see these then you can move on to opening the case to see if you have the needed WBEXEC chip, as seen HERE and the correct STIC 1A chip as seen HERE.

[pimpmaul69]

One more photo of the jack (you can see the coils inside).

 

s-l1600.jpg

if you need an rf modulator let me know. Or you can buy a new one from intvnut.

[+Lathe26]

An Intellivision II exec would clash with the extra 16-bit memory. ... I could be wrong but my guess is P587 is the wbexec and P586 is the original Intellivision exec. ...

Thanks for mentioning the 16-bit RAM clash. I had overlooked that the 16-bit RAM size had increased as well, even after reading the analysis in Google Docs and seeing the RAM's address ranges. That's one more thing to add to the list of Tutorvision improvements.

 

Also, good catch P586 VS P587. It would make sense that this also differentiates WBEXEC chip from the regular EXEC 1 chip, in addition to the lack of the "WBEXEC" printing.

 

My time has been crunched as of late for multiple reasons, so I've had time to do quick experiments and take photos but not much time to actually analyze anything (ex: missing P586 VS P587).

 

If it's not the wbexec, I'm not sure how you could find/make a replacement. It's not a big deal since you could address the missing exec through the cartridge port or an LTOFlash with a firmware update.

I was imagining that someone could get a PIC MCU with the same pin-count, write some code, add WBEXEC as data, and program it to be a drop-in replacement (assumes there aren't pin-assignment conflicts). This would provide an elegant upgrade to make such consoles into fully-compatible with real Tutorvisions. However, I agree that such a limit audience project is a lot more work (pipe dream?) than just using the existing LTO FLASH.

 

Would a regular old rf modulator not be part compatible with this one? The green screen is concerning; seems that something else might be wrong. Hopefully it's the rf modulator.

Originally, I was thinking the Astech RF modulator was incompatible with the Biwave RF modulator. This was because the Astech is feed a 12V Vcc while it appears that the Super Pro Tutorvision only has a 5V regulator. However, someone else pointed out that the Astech datasheet says the Astech can go as low as 6V if the right current-limiting resistor is installed. Also, I don't actually know what the Biwave's Vcc is yet, I am just assuming. I plan to measure it soon. Thus there is a thin chance they are compatible. However, my analog skills are weaker than my digital skills and this part of the circuit is very analog. Without the Biwave's datasheet, it is hard to be sure if the Astech is compatible, even if the pinouts appear to match (which I don't even know that yet).

 

Just to wrap up the other comments:

 

I have the same thoughts on the serial numbers. What's really awesome is that we appear to now know a sharp cutoff in the serial numbers. 8800 is closer to 8833 than I dreamed we would see. I've been doing serial number analysis for the Intellivoice and the transitions are not known anywhere near as tightly as we know the 8800 / 8833 transition. I've also done some eBay analysis for the Super Pro Tutorvisions that I have yet to post (busy, ugh), but in a nutshell it appears that non-WBEXEC Super Pro Tutorvisions have less than 800 in existence. This is because there appears to be a serial number 79xx that has a metal shield (likely not a Super Pro Tutorvision). This assumes there are only the 2 ranges we currently know of (big assumption) and that the serial numbers are contiguous (i.e. not sprinkled randomly among normal Super Pros).

 

Lastly, my board only has a metal shield on the backside (non-component side) that is only 3/8" tall. The component side had no shield. The big capacitor is taller than the RF modulator, though they are close.

[+Lathe26]

Rather than keep people in suspense, here's my analysis of the Super Pros on eBay.

 

These items that show signs of being or not being a Super Pro Tutorvision. In some cases, sellers have inadvertently taken photos that help diagnosing which bucket the console falls into.

Super Pro System A 7940 Metal shielding through vents
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellivision-Super-Pro-System-Very-Rare-Consol-Video-Game-In-Box-Model-3504/292319947898
Super Pro System A 8244 No shield (but board is inconclusive)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellivision-Super-Pro-System-III-INTV-3-Video-Games-Model-3504-Console-Bundle-/282634828110
Super Pro System A 8800 INTV88 capacitor seen though vents
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellivision-Super-Pro-System-with-21-Games-Console-Video-Game-Box-Model-3504/173004152474
Super Pro System A 11403 Mattel font, Hockey shows 159 pixels width
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellivision-Super-Pro-System-Console-Video-Game-System-Great-Condition/311950478740
Super Pro System A 16690 Mattel font
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellivision-Super-Pro-System-III-INTV-3-Console-29-Games-See-description/132339644830
INTV System III RH 094516 Mattel font, Baseball shows 159 pixels width
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellivision-INTV-III-3-System-Console-Tested/122838406709

 

In a nutshell, 8800 is a Super Pro Tutorvision, 8244 might be, and the rest likely aren't. This assumes that there not other undiscovered combinations of Tutorvision parts (ex: maybe they later created a metal shield, maybe some had the Mattel font / GROM, etc, etc).

[+Lathe26]

if you need an rf modulator let me know. Or you can buy a new one from intvnut.

 

Cool, I might just do that if studying the Biwave shows it to be compatible with the Astech.

 

Request to other folks who have / can study the Biwave RF modulator, please do. Help is greatly appreciated.

 

Here's what I've gleaned in my first minutes of analysis (eyes only, no power or measurements):

• On the Astech, pin 1 is closest to the edge of the circuitboard (near the side with the RF jack) and pin 4 is the furthest away. Per the datasheet here, the Astech's pins are:
  • Pin 1 - Video
  • Pin 2 - Vcc power (can handle 6V to 15V, there is a 5V regulator inside the RF metal case)
  • Pin 3 - Audio
  • Pin 4 - channel 3 vs 4 select
• From looking at my board, and using the same pin numbering scheme, the Biwave appears to have a pinout of:
  • Pin 1 - Video (connected to the video resistor network that connects to the 7407)
  • Pin 2 - Vcc power through a 56 Ohm high wattage resistor (R15, colors = green, blue, black). Appears to have a 47uF capacitor (C15, a ripple reducer?). The both sides of the resistor is connected to a network of diodes (CR1 thru CR4) that in turn connect to both the regulated 5V output of the 7805 and the unregulated input to the 7805. Hard to see entire diode circuit but these might be supplying a higher voltage than 5V. Need a voltage meter to check.
  • Pin 3 - unknown, no traces on component side
  • Pin 4 - unknown, no traces on component side

Given this, the sliver of hope of Biwave / Astech compatibility grows.

[mr_me]

You know, your Intellivision was sold at retail without a box, only shrinkwrap. I can remember, one of the kids at school came home with one of those, only shrink-wrapped and no box. It must have been around 1990, he got it at a shop near yonge and bloor in downtown Toronto. I seem to remember it was a System III but I'm not sure. I could hardly believe what I saw, at the time I never heard of INTV intellivisions.

 

I also notice some INTV controllers [eg A-7940] have extra plastic sticking out the bottom by the cable. I think those use a different type of cable connector. A-16690 has controllers with gold discs and keypads. I wonder if that's original, INTV using whatever old parts it had.

 

Not sure, but I think if you can see the blue/green power cable through the vents to the left of the label, it likely leads to the power daughter board; indicating old style Intellivsion.

 

Thanks for all the ebay info, being in Canada some of these might get filtered out by default.

Edited December 12, 2017 by mr_me

[+Lathe26]

I drew the following circuit from visually inspecting the board (no voltage meter measurements yet). It is missing information (ex: can't see the back of the board) and there likely are some mistakes. The 3 question marks likely connect to ground, but that's just a guess.

 

However, based off of it, the diodes have a forward voltage of 0.7V to 1.0V, assuming they are 1Z4001 diodes. Since CR3 and CR4 are tied to the +5V rail, this means that the RF modulator's Vcc is 6.4V to 7V. This means the Biwave's Vcc -is- within range of what Astech uses. Alternatively, the diodes could be 1Z401 diodes (seem less common), which have a forward voltage of 1.5V to 1.85V, which means Vcc would be at 8.0V to 8.3V which is still within range.

 

The current limiting resistor R15 is 56 Ohms. If the diodes are 1Z4001, this resistor would be a bit high for the Astech part per its datasheet (expected 12 to 30 Ohms for 6.4 to 7.0V), but not crazy out of range. Alternatively, if the diodes are 1Z401, then this resistor is really close (expect 60 to 69 Ohms).

 

Eventually, I'll have to pull out the voltage meter and oscilloscope. Unfortunately, time is limited so any help is appreciated. Even pointing out any mistakes is appreciated.

 

[+Lathe26]

... and the resistor network is identical / equivalent to the one specified by the AY-3-8915 datasheet and in the Intellivision I schematics. This is looking promising.

[mjarnold7]

The easiest way to see if any of your systems is a Tudor-Pro is to look in the vents on the back side just to the right of the serial number sticker. If you can see jumper markings like JP0 to JP6 then you have the Tudor-Pro board. Lathe26 posted an excellent picture of this HERE. This is what they look like outside of the case HERE (bottom right of the pic). If you do not see these through the vents then it is not a Tudor-Pro and there is no need to open the case up.

 

If you do see these then you can move on to opening the case to see if you have the needed WBEXEC chip, as seen HERE and the correct STIC 1A chip as seen HERE.

Mine is covered by another plastic plate it appears, is that common?

[+the1hatman]

Mine is covered by another plastic plate it appears, is that common?

 

Not sure. Nothing about these appears to be very common so we're all just building a database of sorts here. It was stated up thread that some may have a shield over both sides of the board and might block the view. Mine did not and you could easily see the JP0-6 jumpers through the vents. It may be that you'll need to open your case up to see if it is a Tudor-Pro. It's not that hard but you'll need to be careful not to pull out any wires or connections.

[+Lathe26]

mjarnold7, if this is your first time opening up an Intellivision, it isn't hard. Here are the well-written instructions I followed:

http://www.intvfunhouse.com/tech/openconsole/

[mr_me]

Mine is covered by another plastic plate it appears, is that common?

I've seen a photo of one where the vents beside the label appear filled in with plastic. I don't think it's common. I'd plug it in and see what the font looks like and look for the 160th pixel. What's the serial number?

[JoeM_Intellivision]

2 of my 4 loose INTV System III and my loose Super Pro System all have plastic covering the vents. I’ve never opened a system before so would want to do on a broken one 1st. I’ll check my other 2 boxes System III and boxed SP System another day.

[pimpmaul69]

2 of my 4 loose INTV System III and my loose Super Pro System all have plastic covering the vents. Ive never opened a system before so would want to do on a broken one 1st. Ill check my other 2 boxes System III and boxed SP System another day.

are you sure its plastic and not the painted metal cover?

[m-crew]

With both of my super Pro and INTV III

You could not see through the vents (Plsstic)and both ended up not being a Tudor -Pro

[JoeM_Intellivision]

Hi Pimpmaul69,

No I’m not sure if plastic or painted metal I just took a quick glance and you definitely could not see anything at all through vents. I can look more another time at all 6 of mine if I can be of some help which I doubt lol:)

[mr_me]

Here's a photo of one with the vents filled in. Compare with the second photo where you can see the metal shield through the vents. Don't know where I grabbed the photo from, apologies to the owner. It looks like the vents were filled in the plastic mold. This one is made in usa sn A-030083. Not sure what's inside, but the power cables to the left seem to indicate there is a power supply daughterboard and a regular Intellivision.

 

My question earlier, about the large capacitor sticking out, was if it would physically prevent the metal shield from being installed. If not than the presence of a metal shield seen through the vents would not absolutely rule out tutorvision boards.

Edited December 13, 2017 by mr_me

[+Lathe26]

I just took some quick measurements (hope this helps). Measuring from the surface of the component side of the board:

• Big capacitor is 29/32" tall
• RF modulator is 13/16" tall

I don't have an Intellivision I board handy at the moment to measure the height of the component side metal shield (maybe someone else can do that quick).

 

There is very little clearance between the big capacitor and the vent plastics. I don't know if there is enough room for a metal shield between them. When I reassemble my system, I'll get a measurement.

 

Currently, my guess is that existing metal shields won't work, but we won't know for sure until there are measurement.

[+Lathe26]

Today's mood:

 

https://youtu.be/QuoKNZjr8_U

[+Lathe26]

My Tutor Pro is working! Sweet!

 

The RF connector was soldered back on (not my prettiest work) and the socketed chips were gently pushed to make sure they are socketed correctly. Looks like the cartridge slot is also a little more finicky than typical. However, it works... now I just need to reassemble it.

 

I know the "Is the RF modulator replacable with an Astech" is not 100% answered, but I think that there is enough info that if someone ever needs to look at that option that they have an idea of what is left to research. I'm going to set that research aside due to lack of time right now.

 

Anyways, here are the money shots:

 

Astrosmash with the updated font and copyright text. This shows the Tutorvision GROM is present.

 

Astrosmash main screen. Notice that the background mountain range's right edge has 2 pixels instead of the normal 1. This show the system has the Tutorvision STIC chip.

 

Similarly, Hockey shows a rounded rink on the right side. This also shows the Tutorvision STIC chip is present.

 

Worm Whomper shows garbled insects. This shows the extra GRAM is present and enabled.

 

These particular tests do not demonstrate which ROM is installed (EXEC 1 vs WBEXEC) nor do they demonstrate whether the extra RAM is present. I don't know if any existing games can demonstrate those (i.e. easy tests for non-technical folks who don't own an LTO FLASH! or a Cuttle Cart 3).