+mytek Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 DrV when you solder in the headers to the board for the U1MB and UAV you will do it as complete assembly with devices attached to headers to assure perfect alignment after soldering in, so removing and reattaching will be on point. Mike Ditto (we were both thinking and writing about the same thing at the same time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thanks, gentlemen! Sadly, family obligations for much of today and tomorrow will prevent me from doing much on my board aside from perhaps more resistors, but I hope to spend a good portion of the day Monday working on it. Nice to get these assembly tips down as I move forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Do the same thing with the SparkFun BOB-12731 and the UAV boards, so that they get soldered in perpendicular as well. With the SparkFun board not being a plug-in, but soldered directly to the two sip headers (this keeps the USB connection more inline with the other connectors, and keeps the board from easily popping out when the USB is plugged in and out). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 DrV my house has been invaded by relatives and I've only been able to poke in and out of my shop to do some quick stuff. Michael I've been looking at my board checking solder joints and verifying (again) components. I found a reversed RN under one of the Pokey chips, not sure that would cause my video issue. I've updated both my Candle U1MBs (l know that was not required), but I found I was getting the same screen with or without it plugged in. Could it be a power issue at one of the chips? Or UAV? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 DrV my house has been invaded by relatives and I've only been able to poke in and out of my shop to do some quick stuff. Michael I've been looking at my board checking solder joints and verifying (again) components. I found a reversed RN under one of the Pokey chips, not sure that would cause my video issue. I've updated both my Candle U1MBs (l know that was not required), but I found I was getting the same screen with or without it plugged in. Could it be a power issue at one of the chips? Or UAV? Just curious about the UAV (I'm still waiting on mine from MacRorie), but is there a 1088XEL jumper configuration published anywhere? If so, perhaps the jumpers are misconfigured or there's a short on the header pins? I will also say, I've got a pal in the retro-gaming world who buys 2 to 4 UAV's at a time to mod 2600's, 7800's and 5200's he then re-sells ... he's had two bad UAV's out of perhaps a 10 or 12 he's bought in the last 6 months or so. Personally I've installed 4 of them in other systems (two 1200XL's, an 800XL and a 4-switch 2600) and they've all been fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thx DrV, the UAV came correctly set. I have two of them and I'm getting the same result. I know it's looking at me but I'm not seeing it right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Good question DrVenkman. Whether its a RevC or a RevD the UAV needs to be configured for use in an XE in order to work properly with the XEL. Here's are all of the jumper settings for a RevD UAV Here are the specific XE jumper settings for a RevC UAV - Michael 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thx DrV, the UAV came correctly set. I have two of them and I'm getting the same result. I know it's looking at me but I'm not seeing it right now. I'll be running a few more checks on my system to see what else can mimic what you are seeing (or lack thereof ). Mike can you do a quick check for me, and try pressing ALT+Insert on the PS/2 keyboard and let me know if you are seeing the Scroll LED toggle. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Michael I've been looking at my board checking solder joints and verifying (again) components. I found a reversed RN under one of the Pokey chips, not sure that would cause my video issue. I've updated both my Candle U1MBs (l know that was not required), but I found I was getting the same screen with or without it plugged in. Could it be a power issue at one of the chips? Or UAV? The reversed RN under the Pokey would only affect the sound, and only on one channel (the RN's are used for mixing the various inputs into one output stream per channel). I know without a U1MB board plugged into my XEL which is set-up for PAL that I get a solid red screen. I'll have to reconfigure for NTSC and try the same test, although it's starting to look like your problems are not related to the U1MB since you are seeing no video what-so-ever. Instead, it's starting to lean towards the CPU, Antic, or possibly GTIA being the problem. Have you verified all of those chips on a working system? I say this because you also are not hearing any key clicks, which unless that reversed RN is the reason, is suggestive that the OS is not operating. Other possibility is that the X1 crystal clock is not functioning (bad crystal or wrong transistors???). What does your 5V power look like with all of the chips plugged in? You can probe this quite easily at one of the Accessory headers on the far right side of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Michael when I get back home this afternoon I'll report back. Something interesting when I attached my U1MB back on my 130XE after being on the 1088xel that some of the settings had changed. So there is something going on behind the darkness:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Michael when I get back home this afternoon I'll report back. Something interesting when I attached my U1MB back on my 130XE after being on the 1088xel that some of the settings had changed. So there is something going on behind the darkness:-) Hmm. I had a flaky 1200XL that didn't like my U1MB but the same board is rock solid in an 800XL. Jon at one point found similar problems in a different machine and he and Matthias (hias) diagnosed a noisy Reset line as the source of the problem. How is Reset handled on the 1088XEL? Is there discrete logic and a capacitor involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) So long story short, my kit came with a standard U1MB configuration with 90 degree headers. But after watching Jon's video, I'm not worried about removing them. I'm more concerned with making sure everything is lined up perpendicularly when I solder in straight header pins. Yes, after watching Jon's video I had no problems desoldering the U1MB headers -- and to me that was the most difficult part of the XEL assembly. I'm at the eye doctor right now and was just told I need bifocals badly. Hopefully those will make it easier for me to see while soldering and not have to rely on a magnifying glass as much. Edited December 30, 2017 by Brentarian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hmm. I had a flaky 1200XL that didn't like my U1MB but the same board is rock solid in an 800XL. Jon at one point found similar problems in a different machine and he and Matthias (hias) diagnosed a noisy Reset line as the source of the problem. How is Reset handled on the 1088XEL? Is there discrete logic and a capacitor involved? Reset is entirely handled by the TK-II chip. On power-up it holds the line low for the first 250ms, and then releases it (floats the reset output on the PIC chip). There is a 3.3K pull-up to +5v on the reset line, so when released it goes high. Pressing F8 on the PS/2 keyboard thereafter will pull the reset line low and hold it there until you release the key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 The reversed RN under the Pokey would only affect the sound, and only on one channel (the RN's are used for mixing the various inputs into one output stream per channel). I know without a U1MB board plugged into my XEL which is set-up for PAL that I get a solid red screen. I'll have to reconfigure for NTSC and try the same test, although it's starting to look like your problems are not related to the U1MB since you are seeing no video what-so-ever. Instead, it's starting to lean towards the CPU, Antic, or possibly GTIA being the problem. Have you verified all of those chips on a working system? I say this because you also are not hearing any key clicks, which unless that reversed RN is the reason, is suggestive that the OS is not operating. Other possibility is that the X1 crystal clock is not functioning (bad crystal or wrong transistors???). What does your 5V power look like with all of the chips plugged in? You can probe this quite easily at one of the Accessory headers on the far right side of the board. Ok, on RN3 I'll reverse that, and test again for the clicking sound. Both my U1MB (Candle work, updated v2) are working on 130XE. I have swapped the CPU, ANTIC, and GTIA with spares on the 1088XEL with the same results. I have tested both spares of CPU and ANTIC on a working system successfully, but the GTIA is soldered in and I'll have to desolder, socket, and test the chips. Checked the transistors (PN2907) and they are correct per the BOM and visual inspection. I found no faults with either transistor at Q7 and Q8 using a multimeter. On testing the accessory headers I got readings of 5v on each of them. The video is with the 1088XEL hooked up via composite cable to a TV. The other connection test earlier was with a S-Video cable to a LCD Monitor/TV. https://youtu.be/COF9PX5QwRQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Had a little bit of time again tonight so I installed another bunch of resistors. I didn't really think about it last night but tonight with a little more time to work, it became apparent that working on this 4-layer board is noticeably different than working on an old Atari board. As Jon notes in one of his videos, there's just more thermal mass there. I've been using a relatively fine point on my iron but tomorrow I'm going to my next-larger size to see how it goes. Still, building this is a great way to pass the time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 I'll be running a few more checks on my system to see what else can mimic what you are seeing (or lack thereof ). Mike can you do a quick check for me, and try pressing ALT+Insert on the PS/2 keyboard and let me know if you are seeing the Scroll LED toggle. - Michael Yes it did. https://youtu.be/rkxhgEPvEdY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Good it looks like the TK-II chip is functioning correctly, but the all LED flash afterwards means that it's watchdog timer timed out. The most likely reason that happened is that POKEY's scan counter is not counting. So the system is stalled for some as yet unknown reason. If I recall correctly from a previous photo of your board, you do have the OSC jumper in place, which is good. So if the oscillator is running it should be getting to the GTIA. However it would be nice to verify that somehow. Do you have access to a scope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Good it looks like the TK-II chip is functioning correctly, but the all LED flash afterwards means that it's watchdog timer timed out. The most likely reason that happened is that POKEY's scan counter is not counting. So the system is stalled for some as yet unknown reason. If I recall correctly from a previous photo of your board, you do have the OSC jumper in place, which is good. So if the oscillator is running it should be getting to the GTIA. However it would be nice to verify that somehow. Do you have access to a scope? I have a Protek 20MHz Oscilloscope. I'm not as proficient as I need to be so some instruction maybe required . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Slow progress but I'm not in any hurry. I finished installing the resistors and got a start on the ceramic capacitors. I'm going to try to do those thirty 0.1 uF caps tomorrow. That oughta keep me busy! Happy New Year and pleasant soldering in 2018, my friends! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LarryL Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hi, Happy new year! After solving my programming issues of the PICs (see main 1088XEL thread) I completed the board :-) Connected to a LCD TV via S-Video and powered it up... Wow, amazing! Only issue seems, that it is only black/white, no color. Composite video is the same. I also tried RGB, but does not seem to work. I tried it with my ST-cables 13-Pin to Scart which works on the ST. I assume, that the 13-Pin to VGA cable (giving me ST high in b/w on my NEC multisync 1980FXI) will not work Any ideas for the missing color? Regards Michael 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hi, Happy new year! After solving my programming issues of the PICs (see main 1088XEL thread) I completed the board :-) Connected to a LCD TV via S-Video and powered it up... Wow, amazing! Only issue seems, that it is only black/white, no color. Composite video is the same. I also tried RGB, but does not seem to work. I tried it with my ST-cables 13-Pin to Scart which works on the ST. I assume, that the 13-Pin to VGA cable (giving me ST high in b/w on my NEC multisync 1980FXI) will not work Any ideas for the missing color? Regards Michael Got no idea about the missing color unless the Chroma line on your cable isn't wired up correctly, or maybe a jumper mis-set on the UAV. A cold solder joint at the video jack is also possible, I suppose. But hey, congrats on an otherwise-working system and getting it all into a case. Where did you find the proper crimped DB9 cables? I know Michael as posted about these before but I don't remember discussion about a source. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LarryL Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Got no idea about the missing color unless the Chroma line on your cable isn't wired up correctly, or maybe a jumper mis-set on the UAV. A cold solder joint at the video jack is also possible, I suppose. But hey, congrats on an otherwise-working system and getting it all into a case. Where did you find the proper crimped DB9 cables? I know Michael as posted about these before but I don't remember discussion about a source. Thanks, I am quite happy with the result. Will investigate some more regarding the video. Since composite is also b/w should not be the connector but maybe UAV. Regarding the DB9 cables, I simply crimped them myself. Standard crimp DB9 connectors and a 10pin flat wire Regards Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Michael, have you adjusted the color pot on the XEL board? I had the same experience with the beta board when I first fired it up and had to adjust the pot. The RGB port is just pass through, so you would need a Sophia or VBXE. Edited January 1, 2018 by Brentarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LarryL Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Larry, have you adjusted the color pot on the XEL board? I had the same experience with the beta board when I first fired it up and had to adjust the pot. The RGB port is just pass through, so you would need a Sophia or VBXE. Brentarian, the color pot solved it!Thanks for the hint 8-) Now it looks much better Cart is also working Edit: understood regarding RGB. Sofia already ordered, should arrive this or next week Cheers Michael Edited January 1, 2018 by LarryL 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Brentarian, the color pot solved it! Thanks for the hint 8-) Now it looks much better Cart is also working Edit: understood regarding RGB. Sofia already ordered, should arrive this or next week Cheers Michael Looks like version 1 of the U1MB cpld firmware...... ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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