Karbuncle Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) For what it's worth, there is at least one person who claims to have seen Todd do a 5.54 multiple times, in person. I don't have the reference handy; you'd have to search through that massive thread on Twin Galaxies to find it. If I remember right, the person might have been light on credibility though; Ron Corcoran perhaps. If it was Ron, you can forget about it being truthful. Ron told me the exact same bullshit about having witnessed Todd's 32.04 in Barnstorming, and it was only after I proved the time was impossible that he retracted the claim of having witnessed it. Then it became a clerical error caused by a coffee stain, which later on Todd forgot that was the official excuse given for the record entry mistake and went back to claiming he really got 32.04. Edited February 2, 2018 by Karbuncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I was thinking Ron Jeremy. How about Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Breaking: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=2055.msg33395;topicseen#msg33395 I feel dumb, I'm viewing that thread and looking at the gifs, and reading the explanation and I still don't understand what the proof is. Not saying the guy is wrong, I just don't know what I'm looking at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I feel dumb, I'm viewing that thread and looking at the gifs, and reading the explanation and I still don't understand what the proof is. Not saying the guy is wrong, I just don't know what I'm looking at. Well I can't view the GIFs cuz they're blocked at work. I'm just going to copy/paste what someone posted on FB: The issue is that an arcade score was passed on as a mame score, and on top of that, it is possible to create a faked recording file on mame. So Billy claimed that he had arcade scores that were recorded through a "direct feed" (meaning the video output straight from the board", but in reality is is possible that the entire score is fake due to the potential of creating a fake input file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I feel dumb, I'm viewing that thread and looking at the gifs, and reading the explanation and I still don't understand what the proof is. Not saying the guy is wrong, I just don't know what I'm looking at. Basically MAME is drawing characters in a different way than real hardware does, which has a subtle impact on how the screen appears the first time it's being drawn. Here's a quick breakdown of some differences I see for the first set... barrel transitions - mame: First frame showing girders has 3 full girders near top. Kong is either displayed after the bottom blue barrel appears, or at the exact same time. barrel transitions - billy: First frame showing girders has 3 full girders near top. Kong is displayed after the bottom blue barrel. barrel transitions - real hardware: First frame showing girders displays 5 partial girders. Kong is displayed before the before the bottom blue barrel, or at the exact same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Well I had fun reading this early thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/34156-yes-broke-6-sec-on-dragster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Using the tips and techniques there I was able to score reliably in the upper 5.xx's. With my best being 5.74. If I cheat I can drop it much lower and even beat out Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Thunder Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Scarecrow Has a Gun I vaguely actually recall the gun, and wondering why he never used it. And thinking it very weird, like so much of the movie. Bizarre now, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) After watching the Ben Heck video, I am not 100% convinced about 5.57 being the best possible score in Dragster. 5.51 and 5.57 are pretty close actually. What I am wondering is if some outside variance could explain the difference. I have read that some electronics derive their clock from the frequency of mains power. That frequency is known to vary with load and across geographic regions. Today in Ben Heck's lab with a modern and one would assume well controlled power system, running a pic32 playing by rules input by Ben and Todd - perhaps the best score is 5.57. But what if 35 years ago the power supplied to Todd's home caused a very subtle overclock or underclock? What do the hardware experts think? Could that possibly explain several people claiming they got less than 5.57? Edited February 3, 2018 by SIO2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Thunder Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 As for Billy Mitchell... Did anyone who watched King of Kong have any doubt that he would fake a score, and/or that he would coerce people with his "charisma" into vouching for scores that he couldn't achieve? This news is great research and well done...but wow, did it really take that long to cast serious doubt on his fake score achievements with what character he has shown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 After watching the Ben Heck video, I am not 100% convinced about 5.57 being the best possible score in Dragster. 5.51 and 5.57 are pretty close actually. What I am wondering is if some outside variance could explain the difference. I have read that some electronics derive their clock from the frequency of mains power. That frequency is known to vary with load and across geographic regions. Today in Ben Heck's lab with a modern and one would assume well controlled power system, running a pic32 playing by rules input by Ben and Todd - perhaps the best score is 5.57. But what if 35 years ago the power supplied to Todd's home caused a very subtle overclock or underclock? What do the hardware experts think? Could that possibly explain several people claiming they got less than 5.57? I think the VCS' clock is pretty well removed from the mains. You've got a regulator there and big filter capacitor going. AND the hardware was new back then. I don't think this is an issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Edited February 3, 2018 by BillyHW 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I read this gem in the comments of the Kokaku article, Todd Rodgers now is the Guinness Record holder for the longest held fake video-game Guinness Record. What sort of proof would he need to provide to verify it? It would be funny if Guinness World records had a special "shame" section for notable cheaters holding former records, like Todd Rodgers, Lance Armstrong, et al... Previous world record holders and the how and why their records were scrubbed from the previous edition record books. Kinda like how some world class art meuseums have special "forgeries" exhibits showcasing famous fakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 This looks like the exact same camera I had: s-l1000.jpg I had one of those. It took an oddly small sized film cart that I doubt is still manufactured. They still make 35mm film though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I keep finding myself grabbing my head, wondering why the fuck anyone cares if these people cheated or not. Will it change your life? No! Or is it the jealous part of you, wondering why you didn't monetize bullshit? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Scarecrow Has a Gun I vaguely actually recall the gun, and wondering why he never used it. And thinking it very weird, like so much of the movie. Bizarre now, though. I don't remember it at all. And it's not just the Scarecrow's gun, but the other two are armed in that scene as well. The Tin Man has a giant monkey wrench and the Cowardly Lion has a giant war hammer: I don't remember any of that. I watched it every year on TV when I was a kid, and watched it as an adult as recently as about 2010 (I've watched it more recently than that, after I found out about the Scarecrow's gun; I had to see it for myself). I've been into guns since I was about 7 years old when I got my first rifle, and I'm what you might call a "walking encyclopedia" of gun knowledge. I always notice them in movies, take note of the make and model, along with noticing the typical mistakes they make with them. So it strikes me as odd that I never noticed the Scarecrow's gun. Several months ago I invited my older sister over to watch that movie (she's also seen it many times, just as most people have), and didn't say anything beforehand about the gun. I was wondering if she would notice. Sure enough, when she saw it, she burst out, "He has a GUN???" When I first heard about the Scarecrow's gun about a year ago, I didn't think much of it, because I figured it must have been a deleted scene that was added back in for a "special edition" video release or something, but after researching it, apparently it's always been there in the normal cut that they always showed on TV. Edited February 3, 2018 by MaximRecoil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) After watching the Ben Heck video, I am not 100% convinced about 5.57 being the best possible score in Dragster. 5.51 and 5.57 are pretty close actually. What I am wondering is if some outside variance could explain the difference. I have read that some electronics derive their clock from the frequency of mains power. That frequency is known to vary with load and across geographic regions. Today in Ben Heck's lab with a modern and one would assume well controlled power system, running a pic32 playing by rules input by Ben and Todd - perhaps the best score is 5.57. But what if 35 years ago the power supplied to Todd's home caused a very subtle overclock or underclock? What do the hardware experts think? Could that possibly explain several people claiming they got less than 5.57? Not an electrical engineer, but I dont think that is the way it works. The RIOT chip provides the clock for the 6507 CPU and the TIA. If it was running faster or slower doesnt really make a difference as far as the Dragster program is concerned. The clock just controls the timing for when the TIA / RIOT / CPU grabs the status of registers. You can think about it this way, what if you slowed the clock down to 1/10th of its normal speed. In real time, it would take 55.7 seconds to actually finish the Dragster game with the minimum possible time, but the game would still display 5.57 seconds on the screen. Edited February 3, 2018 by CapitanClassic 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) There is only one clock inside the 2600, everything is based on that. So if it would vary in frequency, everything would vary in absolute time. But the relative times would stay the same. The game and timer would run faster or slower, but the result would be identical. Edited February 3, 2018 by Thomas Jentzsch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 What do the hardware experts think? Could that possibly explain several people claiming they got less than 5.57? Nope. See above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Nope. See above. The explanations make sense. Thanks everyone. I may still want to believe in the possibility of 5.51 though. That is just how I am. Before I believe we landed on the moon someone will have to take me there and show me where they planted the flag. Even then I will probably say, I don't know - those footprints look awful fresh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Guilty until proven innocent is rampant in the New America today whether it be sexual harassment claims or video games. Yeh, and America is not written to be that way, but in practice it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.E.R.O. Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) A different kind of 'cheating', I guess but the Donkey Kong Forums are displeased with Todd's pal Billy Mitchell these days... http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=2055 Edited February 3, 2018 by H.E.R.O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxsolo2000 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I keep finding myself grabbing my head, wondering why the fuck anyone cares if these people cheated or not. Will it change your life? No! Or is it the jealous part of you, wondering why you didn't monetize bullshit? <majorly self censored> Its not a case of jealousy, at least not for me. I got my Atari in 1981 and in 1982 I got my 1st Activision news letter (in UK it was the Red edition) and Todds score was prominent on the high score page. In every edition after that Todd's score stood out as the pinacle as what the average gamer could hope to achieve and when I finally got a copy of Draster I remember in vain trying to get a sub 6 seconds score. I never once believed he had cheated and I for one find it very disheartening to discover that he did. No it did not change my life but I will admit it did change my perspective on humanity and underscored that honour seems to be a truly out dated concept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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