Ultimate 1MB, Incognito, 1088XEL and SIDE/SIDE2 Firmware Update Released

[Sugarland]

You should be able to retrieve the individual images from a subdirectory where you are saving the workbook (tcw) too.

 

Thanks here are the three files attached.

robotron-commando-poleposition.rar

[Sugarland]

It's probably me doing something wrong like using avgcart car files on the!cart but I don't know. Here is a video I just made showing the symptom:

 

[+remowilliams]

All those work fine. Flashed them as Test-Name to my v2 the!cart, played six waves of Robotron, first level of Commando and a qualifying lap for Pole Position.

Change your settings like this and try again (the most important ones being PBI etc turned off on the second page...)

[Sugarland]

Thank you remowilliams. I tried all those settings and the symptom remains. When I remove the U1MB the symptom is gone. I also tried it on a stock 1200XL with no U1MB and no problem there. I'll try another 800XL maybe it's the machine I don't know. Thanks again.

[+mytek]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but changing the 74LS08 chip for a 74F08 one often helps when adding upgrades to the system that cause flakeyness. It's a timing issue, with the LS chip being very close to the edge when it comes to speed (as in too slow). Might be worth a try .

[_The Doctor__]

where do the 74hc08 and 74hct08 chips fall in terms of speed, capacitance and voltage (and tolerance) as opposed to the LS and F chips... I have some things rattling around my head about this and some thoughts long hashed over about the bus and pbi add ons...

[Sugarland]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but changing the 74LS08 chip for a 74F08 one often helps when adding upgrades to the system that cause flakeyness. It's a timing issue, with the LS chip being very close to the edge when it comes to speed (as in too slow). Might be worth a try .

 

I have a feeling this is it thank you!! As a test, I will swap this chip between the two 800XL's first but also get the 74F08 as you suggest. Will update here. No it wasn't mentioned here but I do remember seeing that chip brought up before here on AA. Thank you again.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Sugarland

[Sugarland]

Oh and by the way, I got the other 800XL set up with the U1MB and it does not have the same lockup/stability issue. So it's certainly something with that first 800XL.

 

The new firmware seems great and amazing. Well except that basic does not disable when holding option down to select+reset cold boot. Basic forces itself on. :( However if I go into the help+reset menu then press C to reboot while holding option down that works to disable basic. Any ideas on this please?

[Sugarland]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but changing the 74LS08 chip for a 74F08 one often helps when adding upgrades to the system that cause flakeyness. It's a timing issue, with the LS chip being very close to the edge when it comes to speed (as in too slow). Might be worth a try .

 

Okay LMAO this is good. First I tried reseating the 74LS08. Nope didn't fix. Then I swapped the two 74LS08's between the machines. Nope. Then I put the 74LS08's back into their original machines and now it works better as in sometimes Robotron gets to actual gameplay! Presumably reseating the chip cleared some corrosion on the legs. I will deoxit it tomorrow. Thank you mytek. I just ordered two new Motorola 74F08N (close enough??).

[SS]

Oh and by the way, I got the other 800XL set up with the U1MB and it does not have the same lockup/stability issue. So it's certainly something with that first 800XL.

 

It does seem like the problem must be machine specific. I tried the files last night and could not replicate the problem no matter what configuration of cart & settings that I tried.

[+mytek]

Okay LMAO this is good. First I tried reseating the 74LS08. Nope didn't fix. Then I swapped the two 74LS08's between the machines. Nope. Then I put the 74LS08's back into their original machines and now it works better as in sometimes Robotron gets to actual gameplay! Presumably reseating the chip cleared some corrosion on the legs. I will deoxit it tomorrow. Thank you mytek. I just ordered two new Motorola 74F08N (close enough??).

Yep those will be fine, and hopefully make a positive difference for you .

 

Edit: To answer The__Doctor's question in comparison to HC or HCT equivalent parts, those are meant to be pretty close to the same switching speed of an LS chip, just with a lower power spec. Depending upon manufacturer, sometimes they might be a bit faster, but not by much, and sometimes the LS part is still quicker. However the 74F series is definitely noticeably faster than any of these, and has proven itself to often times fix issues with phase2 clock latency which appears to be the real issue we are seeing in the A8.

[Sugarland]

It does seem like the problem must be machine specific. I tried the files last night and could not replicate the problem no matter what configuration of cart & settings that I tried.

 

Yes. Thank you very much for your help!

[Sugarland]

Yep those will be fine, and hopefully make a positive difference for you .

 

 

 

Update! The new old stock Motorola 74F08N chip fixed the issue. Thank you very much mytek! Again the reason I posted in this thread was because the!cart worked fine on its own but when used in my U1MB machine, the symptom appeared. At first I thought it might be the new firmware but that was mere guesswork. Turns out it was the 74LS08 which as you say doesn't like a lot of upgrades in a machine due to its borderline spec timing.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Sugarland

[spudmanno5]

Update here. It seems that i cant flip between disks anymore . I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with the firmware/bios update, or whether my machine/button is busted. Can anyone test and confirm anything on this?

 

Many thanks

[+mytek]

Works fine for me .

 

EDIT: But I'm using a 1088XEL with a XEL-CF3 IDE interface. Might be something unique to your situation and hardware.

[spudmanno5]

Yeah i will have another check on it later. Maybe cleaning the actual switch may work. Cant see any wires broken or anything. Maybe i'll reseat the card and unplug/unplug any cables and see if that helps as well.

[morelenmir]

 

Update! The new old stock Motorola 74F08N chip fixed the issue. Thank you very much mytek! Again the reason I posted in this thread was because the!cart worked fine on its own but when used in my U1MB machine, the symptom appeared. At first I thought it might be the new firmware but that was mere guesswork. Turns out it was the 74LS08 which as you say doesn't like a lot of upgrades in a machine due to its borderline spec timing.

 

I have had a great deal of luck in replacing all the 'LS' type 74-series logic with 'AHCT' versions. I think the CMOS circuitry inside them is much better at handling potentially noisy inputs. The ACHT ICs are also specifically made to be compatible with 5V TTL logic and act as direct 'drop in' replacements for matching 74-series number designations. For a long time I substituted the Fairchild 'F' type logic but eventually learned these ICs, while faster to respond to signals are actually more sensitive to noise.

 

At least this is my own experience--my 130XE barely works using LS logic while modded with U1MB, VBXE and SimpleStereo. However if I swap out the originals for AHCT ICs it runs almost perfectly. The 'almost' is due to other factors not linked to the logic units.

Edited October 11, 2018 by morelenmir

[flashjazzcat]

It seems that i cant flip between disks anymore . I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with the firmware/bios update, or whether my machine/button is busted. Can anyone test and confirm anything on this?

I take it from your prior posts that this is still on the Incognito 800? It's important, since there are now three different hardware platforms supported and they're all completely different when it comes to ATR swaps.

 

Anyway: I just tested my Incognito here with the latest update and ATR swapping still works. I guess if it's spontaneously stopped working, something came loose, since there's no setting which enables or disables the button on the Incognito (unlike the U1MB).

[spudmanno5]

Yes it's the Incognito in my Atari 800. I will have a closer look at it in a day or 2 and see there is something amiss. Maybe a clean or something will help. I would be a little surprised if something did come look as the thing barely moves and sits on my TV shelving thingy.

[spudmanno5]

Hi Ok Another update here. After taking the card out, cleaning the gold contacts/slot with ISA, and also using a pencil eraser to clean the gold contacts, and finally spraying the switch with ISA also, i finally managed to get the thing working again. I guess it just needed a good clean or something!

[seastalker]

flashjazzcat especially (but addressing everyone) - now that I have my U1MB and Side2 working great with updated firmware, I'm ready to gear up for the GUI. I saw on your site the compatible mouse and trackball suggestions. I am VERY familiar with testing many brands and sizes of joysticks and know what I like. I also adore a Kensington trackball for PC. I've never been crazy about a ball mouse where one must fiddle a lot more than optical or laser. Still, I also like authenticity. So I am looking at buying a general purpose controller than can work with the GUI but I may also enjoy using on my MIST, C64, and all A8s when applicable. For Trackballs, I'm looking at a Sega Sportspad controller, and the early Atari 2600 era ones. I see an Amiga small mouse based one too. I've not used these nor an Amiga or ST mouse and thought it would be fun to see what others feel about it. I'm less interested in brand loyalty debates or sacrilege of using an Amiga mouse on an Atari 800xl as much as an honest assessment of usability, reliability and any other factors to weigh in.

 

Also curious as to flashjazzcat's goto for the GUI.

[flashjazzcat]

My goto GOS controller is a 'Tecno Mouse' branded ST/Amiga (switchable) unit, but virtually any aftermarket ST or Amiga mouse is going to feel much nicer than those supplied the with machines. ST trackballs also work.

 

Mytek's TK-II adapter facilitates the use of PS/2 mice with the GOS if want to go down that route.

[+mytek]

Mytek's TK-II adapter facilitates the use of PS/2 mice with the GOS if want to go down that route.

 

Close because they both require a PIC16F1847 MCU, but actually it's the Mousetari firmware flashed to it that facilitates a PS/2 mouse. Presently it works best with a 400dpi preferably optical PS/2 mouse like the Logitech M-SBF96 (see image below). Comes in both light gray (almost white) and all black versions.

 

 

$6-$8 NOS on eBay

 

It's the same firmware and chip that gives the 1088XEL (and 1088XLD) it's mouse ability. However there is no stand-alone carrier board made for it (have to look at doing that some day).

[flashjazzcat]

The PeST adapter for the ST should work with the GOS, and apparently it handles USB to PS/2 adapters as well, although I don't have one of those to test.

[seastalker]

I think I may try a genuine original DB9 based one to start. There is also the Sega Mega Mouse (Genesis) and MegaDrive equivalent (USA one can be had for much less). I never knew I could play Populous 1&2 with a mouse and other games:

 

Still, the ST mouse with an Atari logo just looks correct.