I Give up

[Idea Revolutions]

As you read by the subject, I'm giving up. I've decided not to even try to make the games. Whose to blame? The people that criticized every little thing I did. Which, I might add, was most of you. To those of you that showed support, thank you, but there wasn't enough of you. So, here ends my journey of Idea Revolutions. What could of been something is now nothing at all. I'm not even sure I'll bother promoting the Atari, only because you'll probably all think my ideas are carzy. So, wave goodbye and shout for joy, because it's ended.

[Intrepid]

What?

 

* Intrepid goes to do something more stimulating, perhaps Pong.

[Nukey Shay]

Don't try and force the blame on us. Programming is not something you master overnight (I've been doing it for over 20 years, and I still don't have anything to show for it). As far as the ideas for the games are concerned, the couple I've seen sound promising...but with no coding experience they are not much more than a dream.

[Idea Revolutions]

I don't want to come across as a bad guy, Nukey. I'm not forcing blame because I can't program games. I'm not really even forcing blame. However, to those that said I can't do it, you sounded like you might of known a thing or too. So I'm listening to you and giving up. OK? I'm not a bad guy, just thought that people would encourage me more.

[Nukey Shay]

I dunno...for awhile people were coming out of the woodwork to share links of everything from programs to example code to tips on where to begin. Chances are, that won't happen if you would have asked the same things to the modern gaming community. The only time I was actually nay saying was when you signed up looking for somebody to do it for you (or at least that is how it sounded).

[+Cafeman]

You couldn't have been all that serious about this, if you are giving up already. Unfortunately for you, you were preceded by others with similarly-sounding plans.

 

As Duke Nukester states above, programming these older systems takes time and up-front effort on YOUR part. I think everyone wants to encourage you, but when you ask for others to do most if not all the work for your ideas, I think it comes across as something of an INSULT. Maybe not an insult, but a rude FAUX PAS kind of thing. Regardless of your intentions, I think that it came across as "I want to use some of you to further my own ambitions" and nobody likes that.

 

IF you really want your plan to work, I'd suggest you spend the summer learning and coding up a little demo yourself. I bet you'd get more support and help once you've passed the training grounds, so to speak.

[Nukey Shay]

Duke Nukester? LOL

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

 

Holy moly!

 

I clicked on the profile for Idea Revolutions and then followed every post made by them. Whew. Those were some looong threads.

 

Here's my two cents, and yes, you get them since you're compelled to start a new topic about this.

 

It sounds like you want to hire a programmer. That's cool. But as everyone has stated, there's little to no profit involved in making 2600 games. So unless you really intend on "running in the red" as you stated, you have nothing to offer them.

 

But apparently, you want to entice a programmer to help you by offereing exciting new game ideas. Unfortunately, you won't share these ideas so someone can take a look at them.

 

"I've "

 

People program for one of two reasons...

[*]To make money doing something they enjoy

[*]For the absolute love of a format

 

The former has been ruled out by you already. The latter would be done because of a genuine desire to add to an already fun community.

 

Acting like you"

 

I've lurked around here for a while. There's been hundreds of e-mails pop in my box from the Stella Big List. I've dinked around and hacked Coke Wins, or Pepsi Invaders or whatever it's called this month. The point is, people do it because they enjoy doing it. Offering to oversee their personal ideas and how they use their free time is absurd.

 

Go struggle with some disassembly, then try your hand at changing some graphics, then try loading a ROM into a SuperCharger and playing it, then try borrowing a ROM burner, ordering some chips and learning to solder, and during all of this, try to pick up some humility about the whole process.

 

When you come back, you will be embraced by almost every programmer here. And I'm sure you'll have a better respect for them, instead of offering them an opportunity to report to you.

 

Oh yeah. Good Luck!

 

ò¿ó          

[maximebeauvais]

My friend is very good in any kind of programming. I'm not very good in programming but I will like to try that.....

 

So last year I told him that I will like to program atari 2600 game. So he said that he will also like to do it.

 

So we went on the internet trying to find something on programming atari.

 

I found a lot of stuff.

 

It was very hard for me to learn the stella code. But for him, it was pretty easy.

 

So he was helping me with coding and I was able to do a very small program.

 

It took me time and time and time and effort and effort and effor......

 

My friend help me a lot but HE DID NOT DID THE PROGRAM FOR ME (or coding for me)!!!!

[Snider-man]

YOU: "Hi! We're Atari Acts or whatever! We're a new game-making company! Lots of Atari games are about to come pouring forth from us!"

 

US: "You might not want to use the name 'Atari'.' It's a trademark."

 

YOU: "Hi! We're Idea Revolutions or whatever! We have tons of great ideas for games! Make one for us and we'll slap our name on it! We have no experience whatsoever, but you'd be stupid to use your own ideas when we're sloppin' over with money-making concepts!"

 

US: "Uh...no one is interested in programming for you. Perhaps you might want to learn programing yourself?"

 

YOU: "You guys are mean and suck! We're new guys who just want to make games and you're being all poopy and non-supportive! We'll make games on our own! Nyahhh!"

 

US: "OK, if you're serious about programming, here are a bunch of links to 2600 programming sites. You'll want to pick up the following books on assembly programming. The Stella List and The Dig are also good resourses. Good luck."

 

((TIME PASSES))

 

YOU: "I give up! You guys win! You've beaten my dewy-eyed, fresh-faced newbie face into the ground with your utter lack of support! Wave your hands and cheer, you big meanies!"

 

US: (waving) "Yay."

[mvigor]

And that IS exactly how it happened. Not only that, but school's out now, so they aren't spending study hall together every day anymore, so they've lost interest. No time to learn to program in assembly now, I've got to go refill the snack machine in my job that dad got me at the country club.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I don't get it!

 

Just because nobody liked your ideas (because they don't work that way and we really tried to explain why) and told you so, we are the bad guys???

 

Let me tell you: With your attitude, there wouldn't exist any modern homebrew for the 2600.

 

With that lame excuse, you prove everybody 100% right, who was sceptical from the beginning (including me).

 

Now you give up! So what? Who cares?

[mos6507]

The best role for someone who is into games but can't write them is as a game tester.

 

That's what I feel my role has been on Stellalist (at least until recently when I finally started writing assembly for myself).

 

You can influence the final product of homebrewers by giving them feedback. They won't always follow your advice, but if you make a good enough case, they might, and so in a way you become like a co-designer.

 

The better games that have come out of Stellalist were tweaked and altered at the behest of others on the list, not all of whom are active programmers.

 

If you have any feel for what makes a game work or not work, and can express yourself concisely, then you can certainly do that.

[JCroniger]

I smell a troll. No way this guy is serious.... He's just pushing our buttons!!

[Tempest]

I smell a troll

 

Nah, I think that's my new aftershave...

 

And Cypher isn't dead, it's just taking a long nap...

 

 

Tempest

[Adriana]

This Idea Revolutions person sounds like a big cry-baby. Snider-man, you couldn't have summed it up BETTER! Endless threads, condensed into one handy post. No don't we ALL FEEL STUPID for wasting so much time on something that we all knew wasn't going to amount to anything anyway?

[Nukey Shay]

I wouldn't say that. Usually people who use this MO are brushed aside without much thought...at least this time, a fair share of people actually started to get interested and began to see what is involved (and how many headaches they must endure).

But looking at the entire process can be overwhelming...and most people just don't have the time to burn to start at ground-level.

My advise is still the same. Learn Basic. Start at the bottom with that. You can build your knowledge from there (nobody's going to learn for you). Once you write something...anything...you can call it your own, and move on to something more challenging.

[Idea Revolutions]

You're all right, I am being a real jerk. But it's just that I guess I'm angry at myself for reasons other than this "Idea Revolutions" crap, so I looked for somebody to blame. You won. I will promote the Atari, aucutally I've been doing a lot of research about the Atari's past and present. Well, I'm going to be taking things pretty cool now, and reply on posts other than mine . By the way, everybody's right, Snider-Man, you couldn't of summed it up better, and I glad you did sum it up. So, that's whats happening. Hey, if anyone would mind lending me information on how would be cool ways to promote Atari, just post, as I check up every hour or so.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Write a new game, you can't do better.

[Snider-man]

OK, Revolutions. I'll once again treat you seriously as you posted seriously.

 

If you want to promote the Atari, there are a ton of things you can do.

 

- A simple web page would be a good start and it don't cost nothing for free webspace (just have to contend with pop-ups and such). Maybe a listing of your cart collection, observations and reviews of Atari games, "What if" columns speculating what certain games would look like had they been ported over, etc. A list of links to other Atari web pages would be nice. Scans of carts or original art would be cool. Anything new and unusual you could contribute to the community would go a long way.

 

- Maybe you could start a webzine or newsletter ala Digital Press or 2600 Connection. If you wanted to focus on ALL Atari systems and not just the 2600, that'd be a new focus. I don't think anyone's doing an Atari 26/52/7800/Lynx/Jaguar/home computers publication.

 

- Start attending conventions or organize and hold one of your own if none in your area. Little classic conventions are popping up nationwide and worldwide. If you attend, set up a booth focussing on the Atari. Maybe have some games for sale or at least on display.

 

- Talk up the systems with folks who are grounded in today's "PlayCubeBox" systems. Invite friends over for a Warlords tournament. That's a great way to induct new folks. Many will remember their own Ataris and will rush out to find one of their own.

 

I'm sure you have ideas too. Just contribute any way that you can and want to. the Atari Community would be grateful. I hope this gives you the positive direction and encouragement needed.

[+Cafeman]

You should start programming a 2600 game featuring The Undead and Tombstones ... and release it before Snider-Man's.

[Paul Slocum]

I think people come in assuming that writing an Atari 2600 game is like writing a C64 game or Apple II game in basic, but with lower resolution and fewer sprites. I can see how someone might think someone else would code their game or that they could do it themselves with these misconceptions. I knew it was a little more complicated than that, but I still didn't have any idea of the complexity of getting graphics on the screen before I started coding 2600 stuff.

 

I don't think we're going to see anyone with little or no programming experience develop a new 2600 game from scratch. I don't see how someone can have the drive and interest it takes to develop a 2600 game, and not have been motivated to learn programming previously.

 

-Paul

[Snider-man]

Yeah, I know I've been taking my sweet time and dragging my feet with The Ravenous Dead, but that's because I've been working on a new game: "Java: The Light Blue Chopper."

[+Cafeman]

LAWSUIT!

[NoahsMyBro]

meekly, I ask.....

 

I've programmed in Quick-Basic and VB 4.0. Years ago I took an intro-level C class in college, did very well, never used C outside of the class, and only remember how to write comments (I think).

 

Assuming I want to write a graphically very simple game for the 2600, with minimal sound & collision-detection/fast-controller/reaction requirements, how ambitious a task would this be?

 

I'm assuming that the biggest hurdle (not meaning to minimize this) would be having to learn assembly. That alone would probably prevent me from even a Hello World program, but I'm just curious about this.

 

Thanks,

Steve