Best Hardware until the NES

[Jetboot Jack]

Just read the new HI-SCORE BOOK (McGraw Hill) - not a bad book - very Apple/PC centric - but a great look at many COOL companies!!!!

 

Really interesting quote from Joe Decuir - basically he says the 800 hardware was the best videogame hardware in the market until the NES came along...

 

As an 800 fan I've always rated the 8bit architecture above all Atari 8bit hardware (yes including the 7800) - glad to hear others thought the same

 

sTeVE

[oesii]

Thanks for the info, I'm in 100% agreement.

 

Although some C64 guys could probably cite examples of better C64 graphics in many games something about the 800 computers always did it for me.

[Gunstar]

Personally, I thought it was still better in many ways too the NES, using examples such as the Lucasfilm games, World Karate Champ, Alternate Reality, etc. I recently owned a C64 for a while with a bunch of games and I wasn't impressed over the quality of my Atari 8-bit. Many of the games were just as good, or better on the Atari in my opinion. I'd say it was the best gaming platform until the Amiga (which was around about the same time as NES).

[Jetboot Jack]

It would be really interesting to look at NES games and produce demos or mockups on the 8bit to compare...

 

Obviously most NES games were designed around the hardware (just like the best 8bit ones) so maybe some "artistic licence" would be required.

 

I've gotten some pretty fancy displays working right now on the real 8bit metal recently - sheddy inspired me to pick up my tools again! But not decided what game to start on - so maybe I'll do some prototyping and then make soem choices when I've gotten a good conversion in the frame...

 

sTeVE

[King Asmo]

The one thing the C64 had going for it was SID. I think that was the huge advantage it had over the Atari 8-bit line.

 

KA

[Callipygous]

SID is better than POKEY, but the gap is probably not as "huge" as it appears. When the C64 became a smash hit, most third party games were written specifically for it. The Atari 8-bit versions were then ported from the Commie. The ported sound did not take advantage of POKEY(i.e. 4 voices, sound effects), so Atari versions suffer by comparision.

 

Dream Retro project - making the AMY chip available for the 8-bit.

[King Asmo]

I totally agree.. there's a bunch of C64 ports on the 800XL which sound just horrid. It makes the comparison somewhat unfair.. but then again, what's really important is the quality of the software for the system.. not how impressive the specs are.

 

The problem with any of these discussions is that everyone always defends the system they had as a kid, and just looks for points in that systems favor. Nobody tends to be totally objective about it.. myself included. I had a C128 as a kid, so I tend to go on the Commodore side of these discussions.

 

What really impresses me about the Atari 8-bit line is how ahead of its time it was. The 400 and the 800 were more impressive machines than a lot of computers that came out 3-5 years after it. I really like the Vic-20, but the 400 and 800 blows it out of the water.

 

I just recently bought an Atari ST.. it's kinda fun, tho I don't have much software for it, and the monochrome monitor is kinda lame. Anyone have any recommendations?

 

KA

[Jetboot Jack]

I love SID - for music...

 

For SFX its lags behind POKEY IMHO, it lacks the octave range of Pokey (pair voices for effects) and the simple, but effective poly counter "noise" that gave the 8bit line such powerful SFX.

 

In reality if you compare WELL programmed music on the 8bit (Warhawk, Plastron etc) it is of comparable quality to SID stuff albeit not the same as SID music...

 

And although I got my 800 in 1979, its not the kid in me talking - I had to use 8bit machines of both flavours (C64 and 800) to make money in the mid/late 80's. And ALWAYS prefered to work on the 8bit line as a tool and a system to make games for - its just so flexible and had such great dev software...

 

sTeVE

[Wrathchild]

With most of the latter games, the sound routines on a C64 compared with those on the Atari didn't differ that much. E.g. both were using 3 channels, the C64 having 3 16 bit channels and the Atari using 1 combined voice and 2 8-bit voices, hence some pitch inaccuracies in some ports.

 

The main lack of Pokey compared to the SID, as far as I can tell, is no pulse width control, although the can be simulated to a degree, along with other wave types such as sawtooth. This gave the composers another kind of effect to play with, e.g. dec/increment the PW every 'x' VBIs.

 

For me, as JBJ said, some of the Atari music was better than the C64, e.g. Warhawk, International Karate and Draconus, but I couldn't see the Atari managing something like the music and effects from the Last Ninja 3 intro sequence which blows me away.

[Jetboot Jack]

The biggest sound difference on the 8bit to the C64 was, IMHO, that it was very easy with the MUCH faster 6502 in the 800 to emulate 8 or more voices on the 8bit - using a savage kernal and still be able to have a game playing!!!

 

BUT - less of the C64 vs 800 tosh - we all know which was better anyway

 

What about graphical powers of the 8bit - to produce NES like games??? Are there amazign demos out there showing what the 8bit can do?

 

The NES couldn't do Fractalus or Ballblazer, Eidolon or Kornonis Rift (neither could any pre Amiga machine IMHO - don't talk to me about the CRAPPY ports to other 8bit machines)...

 

Just look at Space HArrier that SHeddy is workign on - listen to that music - look at the speed what other 8bit system could do that?????

 

My OLD XE Pac-land screens still look good IMHO!!!!

 

What about the 8bit being able to do the Konami MSX titles (albeit with smoothscrolling???)...

 

Anyone tried anything????