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 Barnstorming - Game #1 - 32.04 - What the...?!?!!


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#1 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:55 AM

 
32.04 seconds on Barnstorming?!? What?!? :?

How close can anyone here get to this time? :?

and...

How valid or invalid are the scores on Twin Galaxies? :?

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#2 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:06 AM

That score is coming from Todd Rogers (like many many other top scores), so you better believe it.

#3 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:12 AM

 
I'm just asking, but should I know who Todd Rodgers is? :? Does he have some type of high score prestige with Twin Galaxies? :?

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#4 maximebeauvais OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:54 AM

 
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I like this one!!!!!

Can I use it? I just don't want to be in trouble with you if you are the creator of this smilly face.....

#5 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:02 PM

 

Can I use it?


Not a problem. The stuff I post here is for fun, so if you like it, use it! :D

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#6 NE146 ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:15 PM

They're pretty good at Twin Galaxies about making sure their scores are accurate (although they still don't have my Space Invaders score in mame up :roll: ).

Just wait for Ron C. to reply to get the full story :)

#7 tiggerthehun OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:30 PM

Jeffy - I bow before your smiley face making abilty!

#8 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:37 PM

 
I'm just asking, but should I know who Todd Rodgers is? :? Does he have some type of high score prestige with Twin Galaxies? :? 

If you check TG, you'll find lots of scores for various systems all coming from Todd. And there is also a feature somewhere on that website you should read. :idea:

#9 MattG/Snyper2099 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:17 AM

my best time so far is 33.82 but i'm still working at it ;-)

#10 Osmeroid OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:38 AM

I've got a 33.60 but that really is the best I can do. Still, if someone has managed 32.04 I've got to try for that myself :P

#11 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:38 AM

@Jeffy:
I've just played a hacked version (no windmills) too. The best result I could get was 32.07 seconds (just pressing fire all the time). When I started to move the plane up and down (without colliding) the times slightly increased up to about 32.5 seconds.

Hm, how could Todd get 32.04 seconds, when you loose time while moving the plane up and down :?: :ponder:

Maybe there are different versions existing, with slightly different timing. Or there is a trick hidden inside the game. Must check the code...

#12 Atarian7 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 5:57 AM

The best i've gotten so far is 32.8 but there were little tiny mistakes here and there. Every tiny extra movement that isn't necessary such as going a little too low through the barns or maybe flying a little too high to avoid the birds adds hundredths of seconds. 8 tenths of a second isn't that much and all those tiny imperfections add up.

#13 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:06 AM

 

...best result I could get was 32.07 seconds...how could Todd get 32.04 seconds...Must check the code...


Thanx for the reply Thomas.  :D  I was thinking that would be your results too. I also hacked out all of the windmills and had the very same time. :ponder:

This is why I raised the question about the validity of the time. If you look on TG, it lists the time as being "Referee Confirmed" too. There is no possible way to get that time on a normal production cartridge. So far, my best time is 32.920, but I know it can be slightly improved. But almost a full second better is not possible. :thumbsdown:

So what does this say about Twin Galaxies? :?  If we are to believe their rankings and compete against people associated with TG, how can we be sure we're all getting a fair shake? I'm not saying that TG is bogus, but there might be some bad apples in the bunch. :?

As far as getting a 32.04, it's not possible on the ROM or the actual cartridge. The game is designed to slow your horizontal progress every time you change your vertical position. Thus, a perfect game would use no vertical movement. By hacking out only the windmills graphics and no kernal code, you should be able to simulate a perfect game. With such a hacked ROM, the best possible score is 32.07. There is [b]no 32.04. :mad:

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#14 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:12 AM

I know Ron Corcoran (Twin Galaxies Worldwide Atari & Intellivision Editor) is on this forum too. So I hope, he will make some comments and maybe can clear our confusion. Ron, are your reading this?

BTW: I just once managed 32.05 (hacked of course), so 32.04 might not be impossible with a hacked version.

#15 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:27 AM

 
Since the commonwealth of Atari experts, including software and hardware aficionados frequent this site, let me pose these questions...

[size=18] » » » ? :?

[size=18] » » » ? :?

This guy (Todd Rodger) may just have a faulty 2600 as far as we know. But it is becoming more and more evident that a [i]time of 32.04
is not possible on a [i]normal cart
. :!:

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#16 Atarian7 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:12 AM

I don't think there are any bad apples at TG. Ron Corcoran is very concerned about making sure scores are valid.

I also question a 32.04 but I know that getting better than 32.8 is possible because my 32.8 was imperfect.

I have also wondered about different cartridges. Maybe there is a slight difference. >?>?

Todd Rogers is a great video game player so I don't question that he got those times but maybe there is a slight difference in carts?

#17 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:39 AM

 
Hmmmm.... I should probably head this off at the pass before it turns into a supposed witch hunt.

I'm not doubting the absolute integrity of Twin Galaxies. Their sole purpose is not to allow fakers and cheaters to beat their chest. They have been a constant beacon for video game score tracking for many years.   :D   I do, however, want to raise serious questions about the criteria for submitting and validating scores.


Atari that perform (time) differently?  :?


This seems to be the main theory about erroneous timing issues. If this is true, then how can you compare gamers' scores against each other and how can you possibly have a contest involving these potentially differently performing games?  :?


Regardless of how or who, the issue of unachievable scores should be addressed seriously and carefully if there are to be competetive benchmarks set. If we are to accept that "some cartridges time differently" or that "some consoles run slower/faster than others" then there has to be a way to level the playing field. Otherewise, you could just set your 2600 in the freezer long enough to slow down the processors and have [b]incredible scores
. (That's just an unfounded theory, by the way.)  :D

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#18 Noble Kale OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:48 AM

*cough* I think you mean warm the processors enough to slow them down. The colder something is, the better it conducts (iirc). (and the better it conducts, the faster the processor runs).

#19 Atarian7 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:04 AM

Maybe the emulator is flawed?
Like I mentioned earlier 8/10 of a second is not much and every tiny movement avoided will cut a small amount of time off.

#20 Jeffy Arensmeyer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:12 AM

 

*cough*


Oops.  :dunce:

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#21 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:27 AM

Technically, I'm 100% sure it's not an emulator problem and a slower running VCS would cause the whole game to run slower not only the clock (because both is done with software).

The only idea I have is, that it might have been a PAL version. Normally Activision made their PAL conversions very simple and did not adjust the gameplay to the slower framerate (e.g. 20 minutes in a PAL Pitfall, last 24 minutes). So, I think we should check this.

That's the only flaw I found about the 2600 records on TG, they don't differentiate between NTSC and PAL.

#22 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:41 AM

BTW: Does an Activision PAL version of Barnstorming exist at all?

If yes, has anybody a dump he can send me?

#23 Osmeroid OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:00 AM

There is an Activision PAL version of Barnstorming (got one back home).

Unfortunately I have no way of dumping it :(

#24 Lemmi OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:00 AM

my best score on a real 2600 with a real cart is 32.97, and no matter how many times i played, i could not beat that score

#25 RCorcoran OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:17 AM

 
I'm just asking, but should I know who Todd Rodgers is? :? Does he have some type of high score prestige with Twin Galaxies? :?

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Todd Rogers, back in the early 80's, was hired by Activision to travel the US and promote their games. He was, at that time, THE premier home videogame player in the US. To this day, he is still among the top 3.




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