Faicuai Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Which test yields the figures you're observing? Easy as pie: 1. Fire up your Incognito or Ultimate-1MB setup under SDX, with PBI=ON and HD=ON on advanced BIOS. 2. on SDX prompt, load System Information 2.24 (SI 2.24), and set IO to OS, and DMA=OFF. 3. Run HD performance teds (preferably on empty HD / APT partition on SDE 1/2). That gives you an idea of MAX attainable performance, but WITHOUT knowing exactly the logical structure / size of records being moved (overhead). I will post a direct screen-shot from actual HW, later, once I have a bit more time for pix. capture, upload, etc. Note that all my timings are NTSC (!) That's all. Edited January 15, 2019 by Faicuai 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Thanks - most useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Well it certainly does not look like static animated 16 colour C64 screens which anybody with a set of eyes can plainly see. This is what I was replying to in my original post ("it wouldn't look like TV, it would look like full screen C64 animation"). Understood. But the FRAME-DROPS are disturbing on those samples. NTSC TV is not like that, not even REMOTELY. My apologies if I did not clearly emphasize this point. You could clearly say, on the other hand, that the C64 could play back video at a potentially higher resolution (and more colors?), but not meeting NTSC (broadcast framerates) and possibly NOT being able to do so with its on-board resources... That will not necessarily invalidate it, just frame it in a different implementation context. The Atari, on the other hand, is more of a show of brute force of all on-board core components in concert, for this specific application. I honestly don't expect anyone here watching lengthy videos on either platform, anyway. Edited January 15, 2019 by Faicuai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) The Dallas video playback on the C64 looks better than I remember, but comments on the youtube video indicate that is a series of images being displayed via DMA from an REU, and the audio is just a music player. I have no complaints with using the REU like that, but how long would it take to load up an intro video, or cut scene, or end credits, etc... into the REU?And more importantly, how much video would fit?Then you have to deal with playing back digitized audio as you dump images to the screen, which the demo doesn't even attempt to do.If you aren't playing back video directly from a file on a data storage device, it might not work very well with long videos.If the C64 IDE can transfer from a file to the screen via DMA, that would be a different story.*edit*Ah, didn't see that was just a PC playing video using the C64 color palette without any of the color restrictions.So much better than C64 Edited January 15, 2019 by JamesD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The Dallas video playback on the C64 looks better than I remember, but comments on the youtube video indicate that is a series of images being displayed via DMA from an REU, and the audio is just a music player. I have no complaints with using the REU like that, but how long would it take to load up an intro video, or cut scene, or end credits, etc... into the REU? And more importantly, how much video would fit? Then you have to deal with playing back digitized audio as you dump images to the screen, which the demo doesn't even attempt to do. If you aren't playing back video directly from a file on a data storage device, it might not work very well with long videos. If the C64 IDE can transfer from a file to the screen via DMA, that would be a different story. OK - I wasn't aware of the tech specs, trying to not spend too much internet time while working I guess with it just being a fast slideshow player, I stand corrected. I will say, that any of the shows I have attended where I get to demo phaeron's video player on a CRT, the reactions are all pretty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) OK - I wasn't aware of the tech specs, trying to not spend too much internet time while working I guess with it just being a fast slideshow player, I stand corrected. I will say, that any of the shows I have attended where I get to demo phaeron's video player on a CRT, the reactions are all pretty amazing. That was people speculating. It's supposedly a PC playing video resampled to the C64 color palette according to other posts. I honestly don't know for sure. That may be how it *could* look, but the way you'd have to do that while playing the audio track is a bit complex. In order for that to work on a real C64 with an audio track, you'd need to DMA the screen pixel and audio data during the VBLANK, then use DMA or the CPU to set the color attribute info for the next line at the end of every scan line, and output bytes of audio on timed intervals. Basically creating an FLI image on the fly for every frame. If DMA is fast enough, there are enough clock cycles available, and the CPU is fast enough... then it's possible. The other video I had seen was good, but it was designed around the C64 palette limitations so it didn't have to create an FLI type of image in real time. I think the Plus/4 video demo might have used this approach, but with it's color palette, greater number of colors, higher speed, and add on sound DAC included with the CF interface, the task is a little easier. Edited January 15, 2019 by JamesD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Easy as pie: 1. Fire up your Incognito or Ultimate-1MB setup under SDX, with PBI=ON and HD=ON on advanced BIOS. 2. on SDX prompt, load System Information 2.24 (SI 2.24), and set IO to OS, and DMA=OFF. 3. Run HD performance teds (preferably on empty HD / APT partition on SDE 1/2). That gives you an idea of MAX attainable performance, but WITHOUT knowing exactly the logical structure / size of records being moved (overhead). I will post a direct screen-shot from actual HW, later, once I have a bit more time for pix. capture, upload, etc. Note that all my timings are NTSC (!) That's all. Here they are: Edited January 16, 2019 by Faicuai 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Never tried that - only RWTEST under SDX. Interesting - I'll try to see if I can get a reading from my PAL 1088XEL setup tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Never tried that - only RWTEST under SDX. Interesting - I'll try to see if I can get a reading from my PAL 1088XEL setup tomorrow. You have to be VERY careful when running RWTEST timing SDX SIO routines... it is easy to get skewed (artificially high) throughput figures, there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Here they are: IMG_3493.JPG IMG_3491.JPG IMG_3495.JPG Do I love the 800.... even I like the XL models... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 You have to be VERY careful when running RWTEST timing SDX SIO routines... it is easy to get skewed (artificially high) throughput figures, there. I'm not sure about serial IO, but RWTEST seems to produce entirely predictable and consistent results when testing the Incognito/U1MB/SIDE HDD. SysInfo's test avoids the overhead of the FMS driver and (obviously) ANTIC DMA when the display is turned off. Interesting that this results in ~45KB/s speed advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) On accelerated SIO handled directly by SDX, the timings yield crazy-high throughput figures, because of impact of SDX serial-IO handlers on the variables that RWTEST samples to track time... This is particularly evident when running speed tests on my Indus-GT drives through SDX drivers. Edited January 16, 2019 by Faicuai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Do I love the 800.... even I like the XL models... I would have to agree... as much as I like my twin (identically manufactured and equipped) XLs, it seems clear that, gram-for-gram, byte-for-byte, the 800 has no substitute. Talk about the real McCoy, as I have said before... Edited January 16, 2019 by Faicuai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) On accelerated SIO handled directly by SDX, the timings yield crazy-high throughput figures, because of impact of SDX serial-IO handlers on the variables that RWTEST samples to track time... This is particularly evident when running speed tests on my Indus-GT drives through SDX drivers. Probably because IRQs are disabled during high-speed transmissions. EDIT: Or perhaps not, since Hias' driver disables IRQs and RWTEST results appear correct (at least with RWTEST 3.9a). Edited January 16, 2019 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Probably because IRQs are disabled during high-speed transmissions. EDIT: Or perhaps not, since Hias' driver disables IRQs and RWTEST results appear correct (at least with RWTEST 3.9a). 3.9a (!?) My goodness, I am behind at 3.8.... where in the world is 3.9a? Just ran it on then 800-i (at SDX prompt, .BAT file with ANTIC OFF/ON instructions, targeting my D6: 32MB empty partition), and got 89,248.1163 B/sec on read operations, which is pretty close to Si 2.24's 96 kB/sec if IO enabled through DOS on its Options menu... Edited January 16, 2019 by Faicuai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Here they are: IMG_3493.JPG IMG_3491.JPG IMG_3495.JPG What GUI/desktop are you using? FJC's? BOSS? Is that even a desktop or just something desktop-like in the Incognito OS/BIOS? Edited January 16, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 What GUI/desktop are you using? FJC's? BOSS? Is that even a desktop or just something desktop-like in the Incognito OS/BIOS? That is SysInfo - I believe written by drac030. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 That is SysInfo - I believe written by drac030. Is that a stand-alone program anyone with SpartaDOS X can use, or is it something that only works with Incognito/Ultimate 1M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Is that a stand-alone program anyone with SpartaDOS X can use, or is it something that only works with Incognito/Ultimate 1M? It works in any environment. Download here: http://drac030.krap.pl/en-si-pliki.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I've used it over the years, it certainly doesn't need and u1m or other upgrade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Is that a stand-alone program anyone with SpartaDOS X can use, or is it something that only works with Incognito/Ultimate 1M? Stand alone. Should work on any machine, at least I think anything 64kB or above. Latest version is 2.25, and can be found at http://drac030.krap.pl/en-si-pliki.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Stand alone. Should work on any machine, at least I think anything 64kB or above. Latest version is 2.25, and can be found at http://drac030.krap.pl/en-si-pliki.php latest version (2.25) DOES NOT work properly. That is, it DOES NOT detect AXLON 1MB expansion correctly in Colleen mode, whereas 2.24 works perfectly. Thought you should all know. Edited January 16, 2019 by Faicuai 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thought you should all know. Have you let the author of the program know? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Have you let the author of the program know? Oopss… sorry, I missed this post! NO, I did not report it (ever)… because SI224 runs just fine, and I could never see or detect any difference with SI225. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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