Could a Vectrex be modified to output to a non-integrated monitor?

[missyrelm]

I'm just curious.

Is it even theoretically possible to get the vectrex to output to *any* type of monitor other than the one integrated in the console?

Would a special monitor need to be built?

[Bill Brasky]

It could only output to another vector monitor. I've seen someone run Star Wars and Tempest arcade boards on a Vectrex monitor. I don't think I've ever seen someone try the reverse but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

[Bruce Tomlin]

You could probably make it work on an old X/Y tube oscilloscope with a brightness input.

[Matt Fisher]

It has been done.

 

http://www.cyberroach.com/cyromag/13/13.htm

(It's near the bottom of the page)

 

No real precise details, but I believe the yoke from the Tempest monitor would also have to be used. Vector monitor tubes are the same as regular tubes, it's just that EVERYTHING else is different. Seems that there would be better ways to do it, though, especially since the color tube they used is undoubtedly the source of the color fringing, not to mention cutting the brightness of the vectors a ton.

 

Now, if you could find a larger B/W tube that the Vectrex yoke would fit and that had the same degree of deflection (good luck), that should work also.

 

On the other hand, I see no reason the Vec output could not be fed to a standard B/W arcade vector monitor. I believe it would have to be amplified, though, for full deflection. Don't know if the Z (brightness) would have to be amplified also. I believe that all B/W vector monitors used 90 degree tubes, as did the Vectrex, so pincushion, at least, would not be an issue.

 

Of course, I could be wrong and welcome any corrections. Funny, I always wanted to have a big Vectrex, but always thought it would have to be done through emulation and using the Zektor ZVG. I don't know why it never occurred to me to just use the Vectrex output and a bigger monitor. Great idea, and I may just have myself a new project...

[Uzumaki]

If you had the time and the know how, you could dig up an old 30-something inches B&W TV and modify it to work like vector display for the Vectrez. AFAIK all B&W CRT doesn't have mask and could be converted to vector without any mess. Power consumption would be the issue as you'd need to drive the bigger yoke and you'd also need higher power transformer for the CRT itself.

 

Or screw the TV and set up laser show. No size limit on the laser show!

[Bill Brasky]

I've seen huge b&w vector monitors used by computer draftsman in the 80's. If you could find one of those that would look great but it would still be flickery because the vectrex cpu is so slow when drawing vectors.

[Artlover]

No real precise details, but I believe the yoke from the Tempest monitor would also have to be used.

If you had the time and the know how, you could dig up an old 30-something inches B&W TV and modify it to work like vector display for the Vectrez.

One can just rewind any monitor's existing yoke for X/Y, tho it's not the easiest approach.

 

http://www.jrok.com/xfer/xystuff/

 

AFAIK all B&W CRT doesn't have mask and could be converted to vector without any mess.

Pretty much. Using a color tube will always produce jaggies. But if you're looking for a color vector display, it's an option. Unless you want to go crazy trying to track down an a used/refurbished amplifone tube for $150+.

[Matt Fisher]

One can just rewind any monitor's existing yoke for X/Y, tho it's not the easiest approach.

 

Yeah, I had seen that before but had forgotten. Pretty darn cool. Actually, assuming I could get my hands on a big b/w tv, it wouldn't bother me at all to rewind the yoke, and it would be TONS cheaper than buying an arcade vector monitor w power supply. A quick google search didn't tell me what the largest b/w tv ever made was, but it's GOTTA be bigger than 19", right? (the largest arcade b/w vector) May be time to hit the thrift stores...

[Ze_ro]

A quick google search didn't tell me what the largest b/w tv ever made was, but it's GOTTA be bigger than 19", right? (the largest arcade b/w vector) May be time to hit the thrift stores...

Instead of looking for televisions, you might be better off looking for computer monitors instead. Monochrome monitors seem to have been popular much later than monochrome televisions were, so I would imagine that you could more easily find a large one. Of course, most of them will be green or amber rather than white, but still worth trying.

 

--Zero

[+remowilliams]

Didn't someone make a board for the Atari vector games to drive a regular monitor? I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine that. Not that it would necessarily help here.

[missyrelm]

Disclaimer: I am a complete layman, who is totally new to this, but I am an excellent researcher, and here is what I’ve found about making a big Vectrex on a color vector monitor. I thought it would be good to have all this in one place. If I have interpreted any of this wrong, please correct.

I have compiled this from several places and have links to all of them at the end.

 

I would think that the ultimate goal would be to make as big as possible color vector monitor, then send the Vectrex output to it. I’m unsure how big would be too big for the Vectrex output as far as redraw goes.

 

I’ve been trying to research what the very largest known vector monitors are, both for in b/w or color. Or the largest monitors that can be converted to vector. This will take some time, as I can’t really find anything about it ATM.

I know of something done with the arcade Star Wars Cockpit that was 25” converted from a 19” monitor done by Chad Entringer as written below but I don’t know if anything bigger exists.

 

Here are some of the methods of making a big Vectrex I have found:

 

Aside from finding something really special, like one of the huge 80’s draftsman b&w monitors as Bill said,

it probably comes down to converting a raster monitor if an arcade monitor is too small.

 

As I understand it, the basic difference between raster and X/Y monitors is yoke and drive electronics.

 

What Artlover said about rewinding a yoke for X/Y sounds like a really good approach.

 

I’ve read conflicting reports about the tubes. Some people say the tubes are exactly the same, many other people say there is a difference: The rasters use 100 degree deflection angle tube as opposed to a raster 90 degrees.

 

Here are some of the methods of doing this that I have found:

 

a)The 2002 Vectrex TV project that Matt linked to done by a person named Aaron (I couldn’t find his last name)

My understanding is that he used a standard TV, and an original Tempest color-vector tube, then put in a Vectrex board in the TV. This seems like a very effective way to make a color-vector monitor. I wonder how big this could be made?

 

b)Chad Entringer site does a 25" conversion from a 19" monitor via a Wells6100 tube swap. His website is www.arcadecup.com. I believe that this transplant has been successfully done with an arcade Star Wars Cockpit.

 

c)MAME and/or the ZVG from http://www.zektor.com/zvg/

This seems like the “last resort option”. I’ve read speculation that this might look better on a LCD than a CRT because of an LCD having more contrast like the vectors, and also higher resolution.

Ideally though, MAME wouldn’t be used, IMHO, unless

you wanted to make new vector games on your PC. This is interesting as people could do things with the vector monitor that are much more advanced than the classic games.

 

Here’s my sources:

Much of this came from compiling information from some threads on webmagic.com:

http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

 

and

 

http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/show...amp;Main=470153

also:

 

http://www.zektor.com/zvg/

 

Chad Entringer’s site:

http://www.arcadecup.com/

 

and

 

http://www.arcadecup.com/swa_25inch.htm

 

also:

 

http://vectrex.classicgaming.gamespy.com/

 

and

 

The Vector Invader article at:

http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial...c12%2F58c12.asp

Edited September 14, 2007 by missyrelm

[Bill Brasky]

One can just rewind any monitor's existing yoke for X/Y, tho it's not the easiest approach.

 

Yeah, I had seen that before but had forgotten. Pretty darn cool. Actually, assuming I could get my hands on a big b/w tv, it wouldn't bother me at all to rewind the yoke, and it would be TONS cheaper than buying an arcade vector monitor w power supply. A quick google search didn't tell me what the largest b/w tv ever made was, but it's GOTTA be bigger than 19", right? (the largest arcade b/w vector) May be time to hit the thrift stores...

 

 

Why does it have to be an old B&W TV?

[+remowilliams]

c)MAME and/or the ZVG from http://www.zektor.com/zvg/

Ah yeah, that's what I was trying to remember. Got it the wrong way around though.

[jay2068]

c)MAME and/or the ZVG from http://www.zektor.com/zvg/

Ah yeah, that's what I was trying to remember. Got it the wrong way around though.

 

 

That's a cool device. I've been wanting to transform my Black Widow into a vector mame machine. Need a used one $200 is a little too steep for me for the little I would play it.

[Artlover]

What Artlover said about rewinding a B&W yoke for X/Y sounds like a really good approach, though not color.

I said nothing of B&W regarding that point, and that link I posted is for color raster conversion.

[missyrelm]

c)MAME and/or the ZVG from http://www.zektor.com/zvg/

Ah yeah, that's what I was trying to remember. Got it the wrong way around though.

 

Oops, I'm not surprised that I made some mistakes. If you tell me the correct way to say that, I'll edit it in my post...

 

Artlover, sorry for misquoting you, not sure how I managed to do that, I'm fixing that in the post right now...

 

While I would like to avoid MAME, the nice thing about emulation with a PC rather than an actual Vectrex is there theoretically could be much more complex vector graphics for a game. Anyone who has ever used FreeHand, Streamline or Illustrator to trace a raster image and make it vector knows that some pretty amazing vector graphics are possible. I don’t know of any way other than possibly MAME that could do this short of designing your own console.

 

But I'm hoping for non-MAME solutions using the Vectrex...

Edited September 14, 2007 by missyrelm

[missyrelm]

sorry, accidental double-post

Edited September 14, 2007 by missyrelm

[Matt Fisher]

Why does it have to be an old B&W TV?

 

Of course, it doesn't HAVE to be b/w, it's just that IMHO it would offer significant advantages. First, you don't have a mask on a b/w tube, so you get cleaner and brighter vectors. Although I love the look of color vector games, they just aren't as eye-searingly bright as the b/w ones. Also, I believe you would have to find a way to route the Vec signal to all three guns in a color tube if you wanted white vectors, which would then introduce convergence problems, which are notoriously tricky on color vector monitors. I suppose if you wanted only red, green, or blue vectors on your "MegaVectrex," you could just use one of the guns, but I imagine most would want white. So, although it obviously CAN be done, I, for one, would try my best to find as big a b/w tube as possible. I would probably mount such a thing in an arcade cab, so 19" would be just fine for me, anyway. You get about 4 times the screen area with a 19" as you do with the tube in the Vec.

 

Actually, the computer monitor idea isn't bad, but I'd have to find one of the b/w ones. I don't think all green or amber would do it for me...