+Propane13 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Am I being too cynical or does anyone else question if the reason for not dumping the Rom is to simply inflate the price and keep it high? Maybe. Or maybe he just doesn't know much about the Atari community (yet). Or maybe some other reason... This is exactly my thought on the issue. This is going way, way, way too fast. So, picture this. The guy is at work, or whatever, and gets an anonymous call, and feels good that his work is found/appreciated-- that's gotta make your day. Now, it's potentially getting to stalkerish-proportions. Instead of thinking for a few days of questions, we've contacted him twice, and already sent an email. And, one question should have been "would you be willing to share this with the community some way", instead of using the term "dump a cart"-- someone not too 2600-involved might immediately hear this and think about piracy. You don't want to put this guy on the defensive, which is what I think could be happening. Immediately, tons of people thought "dump the cart" once they saw this thread. No, don't do that with a programmer. Appreciate them. This isn't David Crane or Rob Fulop working for a company. This is probably an independent guy that did something for a small fun release, maybe even for families. I think we're comparing apples to oranges here. If he was only able to sell 100, and make peanuts on it, he may be disappointed. It might revive him to hear that people would pay $5 per cartridge for a re-release, and that they think he's pretty cool for what he did. I take this from a very defensive point of view, because if you're not the type that does this sort of thing every day (talking to the programmer out of the blue), you could really push them away. I was close to a 7800 proto many years ago, and I think I just put too much pressure on the guy, and he lost interest. Now, I'm older and wiser, but we still don't have Electrocop. Don't get too opinionated about the guy yet. Appreciate him, and keep a distance. He doesn't know the terminology that we do, or our intentions. All he knows is that his game was found, and intentions seem to indicate mass-distribution of something he worked on. Be careful guys. Back off a bit, take a breather, and let's do this right. -John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxsolo2000 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I'm not being opinionated, I just feel that it is sounding a little fishy. I have never heard any one say that dumping a game is stealing. He may have programmed the thing but the cart was sold and is no longer his personal property. If that was the case every cart out there would still be the original property of the guys who wrote them and no one could ever be able to sell them on to anyone else. I have defended people in the past for asking members for valuations on their games but this has spiralled too far, too fast and already we are being told that the rom will not be released ever! As Thomas mentioned, good grounds for an elaborate hoax being laid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagn2 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) WOW! It looks like I opened a whole new can of worms by mentioning I would not "Dump" this. I personally have no idea how any of this works..how it is done, who can do it, who gets the money from it, how it affects the orignal carts value, etc). I, am just saying as long as this game is in my possesion, I will not do this without his permission. I think that is the respectful thing to do. If there is a legitimate reason to do this (putting aside any monetary reasons) then I would present the case to him and see what he thinks. Believe me, I am overwhelmed by the whole scenario that has unfolded. I had NO idea what I was getting into when I bought this game. At this point I have no idea what I should do with this. I will wait to hear back from him and will listen to any opinions or advice posted here. Edited September 17, 2007 by nagn2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotokeo2001 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 PM Albert, CPUWIZ, Thomas Jentzsch, or Tempest. Any of those four can either handle it for you or get you to the right person. The finder of the cartridge being the only one who has contact with the original programmer just sounds really fishy. I can see how if this is legit it could be overwhelming and those dollar signs could be obstructing your view (They would mine). If you are for real then please contact one of those people before you get taken down a side path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) nagn2...... I know this is a bit overwhelming, but let me throw in my 2 cents. First of all YOU own the cart.... not him. You don't ask the guy who designed your car where or how you can drive do you? Secondly, you made a great find and you deserve to make full profit from it, that's why you bought the thing. "Dumping" the rom will simply preserve the game and keep it from being lost forever. It is in NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION stealing. It will also not devalue the cartridge that you have. It will get you just as much money wether you have it dumped or not. Third..... without the 2600 community that has kept it alive all these years, the cart would be worth nothing at all. Not to you or anybody else. No one would care. The community is why it is important, and the community is only interested in preserving a piece of history. And the community is the only reason you even know what you now have. I feel it would be a very pointless slap in the face to not have it preserved which would cost you nothing. It would only endear you to a LOT of people and secure you some small piece of Atari history. My conclusion... have the rom preserved (dumped) by one of our guys, allow the community that gives it it's value to enjoy it, and then sell it to the highest bidder. Everybody wins. Edited September 17, 2007 by Blackjack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagn2 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 PM Albert, CPUWIZ, Thomas Jentzsch, or Tempest. Any of those four can either handle it for you or get you to the right person. The finder of the cartridge being the only one who has contact with the original programmer just sounds really fishy. I can see how if this is legit it could be overwhelming and those dollar signs could be obstructing your view (They would mine). If you are for real then please contact one of those people before you get taken down a side path. How do I individually contact a member? I would like to talk to someone as I am apparently completely over my head on this one. As you can see I just joined this forum a few days ago strictly to get information on this game. I have only used AtariAge in the past to check on the rarity of games I aquire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) The binary is his intellectual property for at least another 50 years according to US copyright law. Instead of asking for "dumping," someone should ask him if he would allow someone to make repros, and he'd get royalties. He'd probably sell more carts today than he did in 1983. Also, if not mentioned earlier, someone should email him the link to this thread... Edited September 17, 2007 by batari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 How do I individually contact a member? Just click on the member's name on the left top of his reply. A menu will open allowing to send him a private message. Or seach for the member in the "Members" section on top of the page and you will find the same menu. Albert is the person who runs this site. He would also be the contact person when you want to sell the game on cart. Tempest (www.atariprotos.com), Rom Hunter (www.atarimania.com) and CPUWIZ are some very respected Atari experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxsolo2000 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Its easy, click on a members name and at the bottom of the page there is an option to message. Tempest is here right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxsolo2000 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) Is there an end label to the cart? Also as Rom asked is there a title screen and if so can you take a pic of it? Edited September 17, 2007 by Foxsolo2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Propane13 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 just so you know what dumping is, it's essentially hooking up a special cable to the cartridge that's attached to a computer. Then, using some software, it makes a copy of the info on the cartridge in a little file on your computer. That file can be played with emulators, or even looked at for the original code. So, why are people on this thread insisting to do this? 1) It creates a backup of the game, in case something were to go wrong (lets say you destroyed your cart tonight out of rage and madness-- now we have the info available and backed up, still). I think this is the only cart like this in the world, at the moment. 2) It can be used to make a "re-release" of the cartridge, if desired. For this, some technically savvy people copy the computer file to a chip, and put that chip on a board. Voila-- you now have a copy of the game available. So, that's how it works. There are some people in this community with the hardware to make games from the files, and there are some people here who can do the physical "dumping", as they have the hardware/software for it. 3) The "dumped" file can be looked at by people to figure out how the game works, and its secrets. We've found lots of cool stuff by doing this analysis. 4) It doesn't hurt the cartridge. As for copyright laws, etc... don't worry about any of this right now. I wouldn't get worried about such issues yet. I'm pretty sure that you're not going to dump it yourself-- in fact, if anything, it sounds like someone else might request to take a look at it first, and then could help make a backup copy and do this. As pointed out, just contact one of the aforementioned users, and let's see what they say. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagn2 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Is there an end label to the cart? Also as Rom asked is there a title screen and if so can you take a pic of it? Yes, it does have an end label. There is no title screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I'm very curious as to exactly how many were made/distributed. If there were hundreds, why have no others surfaced? It surprises me that 99% of them would be thrown out or still "undiscovered". Are there other homebrews this old? Fascinated by this find, 5-11under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerG Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 This thread is a great read. I can't believe how many people instantly think a cart is a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotokeo2001 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 This thread is a great read. I can't believe how many people instantly think a cart is a fake. Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) nagn2 - do you happen to have a scanner, so we could have a nice high-resolution scan of the cart, rather than just a photo? 300 dpi would be nice. Edited September 17, 2007 by Nathan Strum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Hmm... CPUWIZ hasn't posted in a month, nagn2 joins the community with a newly-discovered game( something CPUWIZ could conceivably orchestrate ). nagn2 is a reseller, but doesn't know how to send PMs? and so far is the only one who has spoken to Mr. Stack? I apologize nagn2 if you are genuine about all of this, but I am beginning to think this could be a "red" herring as it still seems a bit fishy( pun intended ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It seems to be a bit early for an April Fool's gag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PressureCooker2600 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 That's what I was thinking.....it's way too early for some more "Atari Charles" April Fool's gags. I believe it is genuine.....the only thing I don't understand is if there were about 100 copies, why haven't any other copies shown up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theking21083 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 That's what I was thinking.....it's way too early for some more "Atari Charles" April Fool's gags. I believe it is genuine.....the only thing I don't understand is if there were about 100 copies, why haven't any other copies shown up? Maybe he didn't sell all of them and they are boxed up in some attic lost in time or they could have been destroyed. We will all just have to wait and see how this all pans out. It would be awesome if this turns out to be the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Psionic Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It would be awesome if this turns out to be the real deal. At this point, it seems obvious that this is 100% legit. nagn2...if you got this at a garage sale, go back and ask the seller if they are the original owner and ask them if they remember where they got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It would be awesome if this turns out to be the real deal. At this point, it seems obvious that this is 100% legit. nagn2...if you got this at a garage sale, go back and ask the seller if they are the original owner and ask them if they remember where they got it. Considering that he found it with Music Machine, I'm going to venture a guess that it was sold at Christian book stores. The manufacturer probably sold it to various Christian book stores throughout the country. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 That's what I was thinking.....it's way too early for some more "Atari Charles" April Fool's gags. I believe it is genuine.....the only thing I don't understand is if there were about 100 copies, why haven't any other copies shown up? Maybe he didn't sell all of them and they are boxed up in some attic lost in time or they could have been destroyed. We will all just have to wait and see how this all pans out. It would be awesome if this turns out to be the real deal. 24 years might as well be centuries regarding aging electronics. Unsold, bought...doesn't matter. They could have been thrown out, packed up, lost, destroyed, etc. by anybody. For even 1 out of 100 to show up after 2 decades is kind of impressive...considering it was produced near the end of Atari's reign by a developer that appeared to have gone virtually unnoticed by collectors. It took long enough for a copy of Vic20's Sierra-produced Ultima:Escape From Mt. Drash to show up, right? Supposedly between 2k-3k units were made...and Ultima is one of the most recognisable titles in computer history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Psionic Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 (edited) Considering that he found it with Music Machine, I'm going to venture a guess that it was sold at Christian book stores. The manufacturer probably sold it to various Christian book stores throughout the country. Tempest Definitely agreed...and like Music Machine, I'm sure all the unsold copies of Red Sea ended up in the dumpster. It still would be nice to ask the seller where they got it (if this is a possibility). Either way, it appears that the programmer has been located (unlike Birthday Mania)...so that's huge. Hopefully, we'll get the full story on this one. Edited September 18, 2007 by PingvinBlueJeans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It took long enough for a copy of Vic20's Sierra-produced Ultima:Escape From Mt. Drash to show up, right? Supposedly between 2k-3k units were made...and Ultima is one of the most recognisable titles in computer history. I remember seeing a copy of Mount Drash (no box, but with a manual) at a flea market years and years ago. It caught my eye because it was an Ultima game (sorta), but I passed on it because I didn't own a Vic-20 at the time. Wish I had that one back... Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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