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Coin Controls Competition Pro, where have you been all my life?


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#1 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:42 PM

Against all odds, I found an ebay auction for "Atari 5200 Joystick Controller (TWO)" and it turns out to be two Coin Controls Competition joysticks for the 5200. Even better was that it was a Buy it now for only $20.00 and free shipping!

I just got them today, but I'm already loving them. The Wico might be the best analog alternative to the stock controller, but this one, in my opinion, just blows me away. The only drawback I see is the postion of the second fire button, but I think I can adapt.

Is it just me or do these not get a lot of attention? I don't even mind that I missed out on the Redemption adapter now.


:D

Edited by SRGilbert, Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:42 PM.


#2 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:26 PM

Pictures! I demand pictures!

Congratulations, though. It's about time your ship sailed in after losing all those other auctions!

I think people don't remember the Coin Controls joystick, which is why it doesn't get discussed much. Everyone clamors for the Wico Command Control, since it's the first thing that comes to mind when people think of alternatives to the 5200's stock controller.

#3 Prodos8 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:59 PM

Congrats!

Are those digital or analog? Are they as bulky as the wico ? They look digital (perhaps w/a built in masterplay like circuit) from what I've seen in pics. I like the way they've incorported the y-cable into the main cable so you don't lose it. $10/each is an awesome price.

#4 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:58 PM

Pictures! I demand pictures!

Congratulations, though. It's about time your ship sailed in after losing all those other auctions!

I think people don't remember the Coin Controls joystick, which is why it doesn't get discussed much. Everyone clamors for the Wico Command Control, since it's the first thing that comes to mind when people think of alternatives to the 5200's stock controller.


Well, here's the listing!

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=160168472054

Seriously, this is the kind of Ebay listing you always hope to stumble across.

#5 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:07 PM

Holy Krabappel, they look just like my Commodore 64 Plug & Play joystick!

#6 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:12 PM

Congrats!

Are those digital or analog? Are they as bulky as the wico ? They look digital (perhaps w/a built in masterplay like circuit) from what I've seen in pics. I like the way they've incorported the y-cable into the main cable so you don't lose it. $10/each is an awesome price.


They are most definately digital. They seem to use leaf switches as they make a nice clicky sound like an arcade joystick. Not a big suprise as Coin Controls is now Happs Controls, a leader in arcade machine parts. Fire buttons are nice and responsive as well.

The stick is a little bigger than a standard 2600 CX40 stick, the closest I can say is the Tac-2 sticks.

:)

#7 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:44 PM

It looks almost exactly like the Competition Pro joystick, minus the extra buttons...

Posted Image

#8 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:38 PM

It looks almost exactly like the Competition Pro joystick, minus the extra buttons...

Posted Image

Yeah, that would make a nice PC joystick! Looking at the C64 version, I'd guess it was just modeled to look like it? Do the C64 PnP use microswitches too?

#9 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:54 PM

Not sure. I never cracked that bad boy open... I did some research online and discovered that there wouldn't be much point in doing it. Only the later models of the C64 Plug & Play joystick had the kind of versatility that allowed them to be modified into neat things like Commodore laptops. You can't even get a clean picture out of the first model P&P, which is why I leave mine crated up in a box in my closet.

Edited by Jess Ragan, Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:55 PM.


#10 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2007 4:42 PM

Opened one of the up today when I was cleaning them and they are just the model of simplicity. Nice micro switches!

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#11 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2007 4:56 PM

Whoa, it's surprising to see switches like those in controllers that old. They're also in arcade joysticks by Pelican and Red Octane, and they tend to be a lot more responsive than the crummy springs used in most early 1980's controllers.

#12 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:57 PM

Whoa, it's surprising to see switches like those in controllers that old. They're also in arcade joysticks by Pelican and Red Octane, and they tend to be a lot more responsive than the crummy springs used in most early 1980's controllers.

What's really strange (to me at least) is that there doesn't seem to be any circuitry inside the stick other than the wires coming from the switches to the cable. I guess I assumed that something else would be required to hook up digital switches to the 5200, like Prodos had said. It doesn't look there could be anything in the cable either.

Weird!

#13 Shawn Sr. OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:24 AM

Whoa, it's surprising to see switches like those in controllers that old. They're also in arcade joysticks by Pelican and Red Octane, and they tend to be a lot more responsive than the crummy springs used in most early 1980's controllers.

What's really strange (to me at least) is that there doesn't seem to be any circuitry inside the stick other than the wires coming from the switches to the cable. I guess I assumed that something else would be required to hook up digital switches to the 5200, like Prodos had said. It doesn't look there could be anything in the cable either.

Weird!


There is more needed. Why do you think there is the female cord on the line? You need it for the variable resistors inside the stock controllers or the directional controls wouldn't work at all.

#14 Prodos8 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:27 AM

Whoa, it's surprising to see switches like those in controllers that old. They're also in arcade joysticks by Pelican and Red Octane, and they tend to be a lot more responsive than the crummy springs used in most early 1980's controllers.

What's really strange (to me at least) is that there doesn't seem to be any circuitry inside the stick other than the wires coming from the switches to the cable. I guess I assumed that something else would be required to hook up digital switches to the 5200, like Prodos had said. It doesn't look there could be anything in the cable either.

Weird!

Since the sticks are purpose built for the 5200, they're using a resistor wired to the switches themselves since they are two state switches, I'm assuming at least one (resistor) for each axis. If you look at the pic the micro-switches on each axis are wired differently from one another, one wired normally open and other wired normally closed. Each axis has three states of resistance based on the state of the switches: 0k, 250k (centered), open circuit (max resistance). When making an external adapter all your switches are normally open so you can't wire anything to normally closed switch, thus its more complicated.

Have you tried using these on Ms. Pac-Man, Vanguard or Qix? I bet you'll have trouble since imo the sticks use an open circuit for infinite resistance.

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#15 Nuclear Pacman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:16 AM

Comp Pro is strictly what I use for 5200 gaming, nice find.

#16 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:07 PM

Whoa, it's surprising to see switches like those in controllers that old. They're also in arcade joysticks by Pelican and Red Octane, and they tend to be a lot more responsive than the crummy springs used in most early 1980's controllers.

What's really strange (to me at least) is that there doesn't seem to be any circuitry inside the stick other than the wires coming from the switches to the cable. I guess I assumed that something else would be required to hook up digital switches to the 5200, like Prodos had said. It doesn't look there could be anything in the cable either.

Weird!

Since the sticks are purpose built for the 5200, they're using a resistor wired to the switches themselves since they are two state switches, I'm assuming at least one (resistor) for each axis. If you look at the pic the micro-switches on each axis are wired differently from one another, one wired normally open and other wired normally closed. Each axis has three states of resistance based on the state of the switches: 0k, 250k (centered), open circuit (max resistance). When making an external adapter all your switches are normally open so you can't wire anything to normally closed switch, thus its more complicated.

Have you tried using these on Ms. Pac-Man, Vanguard or Qix? I bet you'll have trouble since imo the sticks use an open circuit for infinite resistance.

That makes a certain amount of sense.

Maybe you can help me figure out something else while you are at it, and I'm sure it's related to what you just said. I can't use the trakball with this joystick which really sucks as the would be a perfect combination. Do the Masterplay or Redemption allow you use the trakball as the keypad?

As for Ms. Pac Man, it seems to work as well as I would expect any 8-way stick on a 4 directional game. You just have to make sure the stick on the analog controller is centered. Obviously, any games that use the analog aspect of the stock controller doesn't work with the Comp Pro.

Really, to be honest, I have no problem with the original sticks it's the FIRE buttons I hate with a passion! I need to at least get the parts to refurb a couple of my controllers. Out of the 5 stock controllers I have, only one has working fire buttons, and they are flaky at best. Same with the Trakball, which could have been the best controller of all time except for the awful fire buttons. One of these days, I'm going to get some Happs arcade buttons and wire them in.

#17 Prodos8 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 7:34 AM

Maybe you can help me figure out something else while you are at it, and I'm sure it's related to what you just said. I can't use the trakball with this joystick which really sucks as the would be a perfect combination. Do the Masterplay or Redemption allow you use the trakball as the keypad?

If the controller keypad works with it the trak-ball keypad should work as well, they (the keypads) are electrically the same. I've used the trak-ball as a keypad with a wico y-cable and a DIY MasterHome. I don't have a redemption or original masterplay, but can't really see any reason for it not working with those. Basically the top row of pins on the connector are reserved for the keypad and bottom row is for the joystick/buttons. The two never meet unless you have a short.

Does they trak-ball keypad work when you plug it directly to the console?

#18 Red 5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 10:17 AM

I was actually almost in the middle of a trade with SRGilbert when he found these.

(Which was still a very cool find.)

However, due to his amazing find, I still have one if anyone is interested in a trade for any Atari items I don't have.
If no trades, it is being listed tomorrow night at 9:00 PM EST on Ebay.
(And no, the BIN will not be $20.00 ;) )

Not to plug and hype this anymore than everyone already has, but they are the best controllers for
the 5200 by far. I hate my stock controllers, like my Wico, but love my comp pro. I just don't need 2.

Edited by therealred5, Sat Nov 3, 2007 10:18 AM.


#19 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 11:01 AM

I've always preferred the Wico, myself. I just find it more comfortable to use, and I find it more versatile, although I generally like the Comp Pro's stick action a little better. You just can't play Star Raiders or Kaboom with it, is all.

And honestly, I actually like the stock joysticks, even though they require more upkeep than any controller rightfully should (did Atari actually expect customers to disassemble their 5200 controllers and know how to properly clean/repair them when they malfunctioned?). I've yet to get some of those gold-dot flex circuits...

#20 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 1:56 PM

Maybe you can help me figure out something else while you are at it, and I'm sure it's related to what you just said. I can't use the trakball with this joystick which really sucks as the would be a perfect combination. Do the Masterplay or Redemption allow you use the trakball as the keypad?

If the controller keypad works with it the trak-ball keypad should work as well, they (the keypads) are electrically the same. I've used the trak-ball as a keypad with a wico y-cable and a DIY MasterHome. I don't have a redemption or original masterplay, but can't really see any reason for it not working with those. Basically the top row of pins on the connector are reserved for the keypad and bottom row is for the joystick/buttons. The two never meet unless you have a short.

Does they trak-ball keypad work when you plug it directly to the console?

Well, here's the thing.

When I use my 5200 multicart, you use the stick to select games, except with the trackball plugged in, it acts like the controller is being pushed down. When I insert an actual cart, like Missle Command, the keypad on the Trakball works, but when I start the game, the curser is in the bottom right hand side of the screen. Moving the trackball does nothing, and moving the Comp Pro stick causes it to jump around like crazy (I expect that part actually, I know it won't work with a digital controller.) Normally, the trackball works fine.

I'm starting to think I need to open the 5200 up and calibrate it. I've never done that before though, I'll have to load up the diagnostic rom.

#21 Prodos8 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:21 PM

Maybe you can help me figure out something else while you are at it, and I'm sure it's related to what you just said. I can't use the trakball with this joystick which really sucks as the would be a perfect combination. Do the Masterplay or Redemption allow you use the trakball as the keypad?

If the controller keypad works with it the trak-ball keypad should work as well, they (the keypads) are electrically the same. I've used the trak-ball as a keypad with a wico y-cable and a DIY MasterHome. I don't have a redemption or original masterplay, but can't really see any reason for it not working with those. Basically the top row of pins on the connector are reserved for the keypad and bottom row is for the joystick/buttons. The two never meet unless you have a short.

Does they trak-ball keypad work when you plug it directly to the console?

Well, here's the thing.

When I use my 5200 multicart, you use the stick to select games, except with the trackball plugged in, it acts like the controller is being pushed down. When I insert an actual cart, like Missle Command, the keypad on the Trakball works, but when I start the game, the curser is in the bottom right hand side of the screen. Moving the trackball does nothing, and moving the Comp Pro stick causes it to jump around like crazy (I expect that part actually, I know it won't work with a digital controller.) Normally, the trackball works fine.

I'm starting to think I need to open the 5200 up and calibrate it. I've never done that before though, I'll have to load up the diagnostic rom.

I'm confused? :?

However, the trak-ball itself won't work (and niether will a stock stick -- the stick part) when plugged into the y-jack as that jack only has the wires for the keypad, if its anything like the wico ones anyway. If the cursor is down in the corner, on Missle Command, then you probably do need to adjust the internal pot, it should be in the center when the stick is centered. That may be why your multi-cart menu is goofing up as well.

#22 SRGilbert OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 7:54 PM

I'm confused? :?

However, the trak-ball itself won't work (and niether will a stock stick -- the stick part) when plugged into the y-jack as that jack only has the wires for the keypad, if its anything like the wico ones anyway. If the cursor is down in the corner, on Missle Command, then you probably do need to adjust the internal pot, it should be in the center when the stick is centered. That may be why your multi-cart menu is goofing up as well.

With the Comp Pro, the stick on the stock controller still works as always. I didn't realize that wasn't the case with the Wico until you said that. I just got my Wico a week or so ago, but after testing it, you are right! I wonder if that is the case with the Masterplay or the Redemption as I've heared others mention that the stick needs to be centered so you don't get false readings.

Maybe therealred5 or another Comp Pro user can shed some light on this. I guess these are even more uncommon than I thought!

#23 Prodos8 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 8:32 PM

With the Comp Pro, the stick on the stock controller still works as always. I didn't realize that wasn't the case with the Wico until you said that. I just got my Wico a week or so ago, but after testing it, you are right! I wonder if that is the case with the Masterplay or the Redemption as I've heared others mention that the stick needs to be centered so you don't get false readings.

Maybe therealred5 or another Comp Pro user can shed some light on this. I guess these are even more uncommon than I thought!

That seems really strange to me. Wiring two controllers to one port would cause parallel resistance between them, most likely resulting in neither one working properly. Is there some sort of keypad only for those, kinda like wico made for their stick?

Oh well, like you said, maybe someone with more experience using these could comment.

#24 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:19 AM

Competition Pro 5000 rules! I have mine now for more than 20 years. Almost unbreakable!

#25 thomasholzer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 4, 2007 10:23 AM

It looks almost exactly like the Competition Pro joystick, minus the extra buttons...

Posted Image

Yeah, that would make a nice PC joystick!



They do indeed, I use nothing else on my PC:
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