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I cant believe it...The Hyperscan lives on!


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#51 RickHarrisMaine OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:33 AM

Some of the games that are reportedly coming out for this system look pretty good. Most likely though, I'll just keep the thing sealed in its box and wait for the time about 10 years down the road when these are as collectible as a CIB Virtual Boy. :P

#52 JagCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:50 AM

I guess you can't read or write, either.

The OpenGL ES 1.0 Rendering Engine is clearly listed on the link I provided.
Its a unified architecture much like Intel Extreme or other motherboards with integrated 3D.

You're just ticked -- because I proved you were totally wrong. As other people have stated -- the HyperScan is somewhere around an N64 or Dreamcast. That proves your SuperNintendo/PS1 comments were wrong.

OpenGL can be implemented in software, too. SunPlus is a PowerVR licensee, so they could be using an onboard PowerVR variant; but those are generally targetted at low-power set-top boxes and mobile phones nowadays, so it's nothing to be bragging about.

Think of it this way -- The HyperScan is a Linux-Based Game Console with ZERO copy protection /lockout chips. For $11, its a steal. Its like a GP2X for 20% the cost. Within a year, I'm pretty sure there will be tons of Emulators and Homebrew stuff for it.

At 16 MB of RAM, it's extremely unlikely to be running Linux. (Did it ship with a written offer for the source code to the OS?)

Ignoring the fact that it's running an unspecified CPU architecture that likely doesn't even have a public GCC port, the hardware's anemic compared even to the Dreamcast. I can't see any good reason for the homebrew community at large to be interested.


Well, I'm sure Linux will run -- probably command prompt only. If you recall, they never open sourced the Dreamcast video hardware, so Dreamcast Linux is stuck with command prompt only, too.

From what I understand, the Dreamcast can't be hacked as easily as a Hyperscan. Which is the appeal of the HyperScan. For HyperScan games, they use standard CD-ROMs -- a novice can go into file manager, change the names of some files or replace them with their own graphics, music, etc -- and write it to a CD-R. This works -- I hacked my X-Men game with no programming knowledge. The new disc runs on the game console.

Further, the USB port on the back of the HyperScan -- means that every HyperScan console ever built can be a host or device to a PC. That means every console is a developer kit. Whereas, you could only buy a development kit from Sega for the Dreamcast to write software (and good luck finding a 1998 era Dev Kit now).
The homebrew movement is really starting to develop for this console. The console is cheap, simple to program, doesn't require modding and is a hacker's dream for 7 bucks!

#53 Hackmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:14 AM

The CPU is not unspecified, it is very specified and the specs are available. I think the company was giving developer samples out at one time:
http://www.sunplus.c...ucts/S core.asp

Well, finding the CPU datasheet is a lot harder when the "developer" pages spell the CPU name wrong. :P And Sunplus advertises full GCC and GDB support, which is very good news. That said, making the CPU a known quantity defintely helps things a lot, but there's still other hardware that needs to be identified (audio and video hardware, controller interfaces, etc.).

I still don't think that it's all that interesting as a homebrew platform, since the Dreamcast has better hardware, an existing homebrew community with a well-developed SDK, and a price tag in the same range. But I'm always curious to see what people can manage to run on random hardware anyway.

The cd's it uses are not locked, so you can make games for it.

Has someone checked that you can indeed run arbitrary code on it? If Mattel didn't care about casual piracy but wanted to lock out non-licensees, they could have programmed the firmware to require that all binaries be cryptographically signed.

#54 Hackmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:22 AM

Well, I'm sure Linux will run -- probably command prompt only. If you recall, they never open sourced the Dreamcast video hardware, so Dreamcast Linux is stuck with command prompt only, too.

The Dreamcast video hardware has been accessible to homebrew developers for a long time; KallistiOS even supports a hardware-accelerated subset of OpenGL. There's no X driver for the onboard PowerVR 2 chip, but that seems to be due to a lack of interest rather than a lack of hardware information.

From what I understand, the Dreamcast can't be hacked as easily as a Hyperscan. Which is the appeal of the HyperScan. For HyperScan games, they use standard CD-ROMs -- a novice can go into file manager, change the names of some files or replace them with their own graphics, music, etc -- and write it to a CD-R. This works -- I hacked my X-Men game with no programming knowledge. The new disc runs on the game console.

The Dreamcast can be hacked very easily. Commercial games use proprietary discs, but it'll also boot off of CD-Rs without any modifications. Since the Dreamcast uses a lot of off-the-shelf hardware, the homebrew community has a very thorough third-party SDK at its disposal.

Edited by Hackmann, Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:23 AM.


#55 Bruce Tomlin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:43 AM

For 11.00 I am getting one.

Check again, guys. There's a $5 off now, for $6.99. Even for a lemon like this, it's hard for me to resist the temptation.

#56 JagCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:08 PM

The CPU is not unspecified, it is very specified and the specs are available. I think the company was giving developer samples out at one time:
http://www.sunplus.c...ucts/S core.asp

Well, finding the CPU datasheet is a lot harder when the "developer" pages spell the CPU name wrong. :P And Sunplus advertises full GCC and GDB support, which is very good news. That said, making the CPU a known quantity defintely helps things a lot, but there's still other hardware that needs to be identified (audio and video hardware, controller interfaces, etc.).

I still don't think that it's all that interesting as a homebrew platform, since the Dreamcast has better hardware, an existing homebrew community with a well-developed SDK, and a price tag in the same range. But I'm always curious to see what people can manage to run on random hardware anyway.

The cd's it uses are not locked, so you can make games for it.

Has someone checked that you can indeed run arbitrary code on it? If Mattel didn't care about casual piracy but wanted to lock out non-licensees, they could have programmed the firmware to require that all binaries be cryptographically signed.


From what I read on the HyperScan forum -- its a work in progress. I believe some of the hackers will try to run homebrew code on it within the next month or so. They've gotten no help from Mattel -- they are a deadbeat dad!

#57 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:26 PM

Has someone checked that you can indeed run arbitrary code on it? If Mattel didn't care about casual piracy but wanted to lock out non-licensees, they could have programmed the firmware to require that all binaries be cryptographically signed.


Pure speculation, but since the scannable cards could be considered necessary for "proper" play, piracy protection might have been one of the development cost factors that could have been cut to keep hardware pricing down for its target tween audience. This way Mattel could sell the hardware as cheaply as possible and make the majority of their money on the card packs.

#58 JagCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:42 PM

The CPU is not unspecified, it is very specified and the specs are available. I think the company was giving developer samples out at one time:
http://www.sunplus.c...ucts/S core.asp

Well, finding the CPU datasheet is a lot harder when the "developer" pages spell the CPU name wrong. :P And Sunplus advertises full GCC and GDB support, which is very good news. That said, making the CPU a known quantity defintely helps things a lot, but there's still other hardware that needs to be identified (audio and video hardware, controller interfaces, etc.).

I still don't think that it's all that interesting as a homebrew platform, since the Dreamcast has better hardware, an existing homebrew community with a well-developed SDK, and a price tag in the same range. But I'm always curious to see what people can manage to run on random hardware anyway.

The cd's it uses are not locked, so you can make games for it.

Has someone checked that you can indeed run arbitrary code on it? If Mattel didn't care about casual piracy but wanted to lock out non-licensees, they could have programmed the firmware to require that all binaries be cryptographically signed.


The DreamCast has a price tag in the same range? Please send me a link to where I can buy a brand new DreamCast system for SEVEN DOLLARS. Circuit City is selling the console, X-Men game and control pad for $6.99. With Shipping, it runs about $10.50.

Second, the DreamCast hardware is getting old. You know how difficult it is to find a mint condition DreamCast? I own one (bought it new) -- but the thing hasn't been manufactured in seven years. I think I remember seeing a knock-off portable Dreamcast a while back for $250. Dreamcast hardware isn't very easy to find anymore.

Don't get me wrong -- I prefer the superior Dreamcast to the HyperScan. But, the HyperScan is more accessible. ...and for 7 bucks -- I don't mind taking it apart and hacking it.

#59 Scumdogg OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:06 PM

JagCD, were you for some reason hired by Mattel to help push these last few consoles out the door and into the overstuffed closets of helpless game junkies? I find it odd that this is the only topic you've weighed in on, and that you're pushing for the HyperScan's potential so vehemently. I mean, the thing really IS a joke when it comes right down to it.

#60 DragonmasterDan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:20 PM

I looked at the specs, and there are some misunderstandings stated above. The ram is not fixed, it can be increased with soldering:

* DDR DRAM: 16 MB
* Supports 32-bit SDRAM data buses

The CPU is not unspecified, it is very specified and the specs are available. I think the company was giving developer samples out at one time:
http://www.sunplus.c...ucts/S core.asp
As for an OS, after a ram upgrade it can surely run a Linux. I know an older version of slackware (tweaked for such a system) will run and with say, 32mb of ram it can run something like FluxBox. But the point is to not have yet another desktop kind of computer but a game machine.

So I tend to agree, you can have a GP2X-ish thing as long as you are willing to mod a good amount. And the USB feature of the HS lets it be either a host or device, so there is a memory boost there (if the OS supported it) by using a memory stick or something like that.

out of thebox it is not an impressive machine, but it is so hackable it seems done by intention and not money constraints. Whatever reason, it is what it is. It's hackable. The CPU manufacturer has the specs available for download and they actually want people to develop on it. The cd's it uses are not locked, so you can make games for it.

So, how is this not a steal?

Nathan


A few years ago I had Linux running on a P75 with 16 megs of RAM (we're talking 2.2 kernel series here) it CAN be done. But to do so while having OpenGL seems highly unlikely which means the system is not running Linux out of the box. Sure it's hackable. But for example with the Dreamcast you have far greater hacking possibilities.

#61 Gregory DG OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:41 PM

JagCD, were you for some reason hired by Mattel to help push these last few consoles out the door and into the overstuffed closets of helpless game junkies? I find it odd that this is the only topic you've weighed in on, and that you're pushing for the HyperScan's potential so vehemently.

Exactly what I'm thinking...

I mean, the thing really IS a joke when it comes right down to it.

Amen.

#62 A Sprite OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:58 PM

If he is, it'd be better for him to bite the bullet now and come clean. We know how rough it can be to handle a system with a poor launch, but viral advertising has a nasty habit of killing the carrier.

The cover-up is usually worse than the crime.


Edited by A Sprite, Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:03 PM.


#63 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:42 PM

If he is, it'd be better for him to bite the bullet now and come clean. We know how rough it can be to handle a system with a poor launch, but viral advertising has a nasty habit of killing the carrier.

The cover-up is usually worse than the crime.


I think it's rather silly to think it's "viral advertising" for a system that has been dead and in virtual liquidation for some time. I don't even think Mattel benefits from retailers clearing out their remaining stock like this anyway. And frankly even the busiest of forums could generate a few dozen sales from a few "dev" posts at best anyway. Let's face it, some people (myself included) are fascinated by technology in general, and when said technology is being cleared out, yes, it is a bit exciting.

#64 nathanallan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:18 PM

Paid my Mattel? I wish! Seems that Bil and I are on the same page. We both love tinkering and figuring outhow to make stuff do things it wasn't supposed to-- and do it ourselves. Exciting is a good word for it. Maybe Obsession is a better word for me. I dunno. Kinda like, "here, have a lego kit. There are plans for a few things inside, but with imagination you can do more!" It's the do more part that interests me. The HyperScan is like a super deluxe mega imported banned technic set of legos. And my classes are winding down-- I'm almost done so I can't have a full schedule, and that leaves me time to play!

A joke as it is now. After a few months of developing, tinkering and writing for it, it'll be a blast.

Nathan

#65 JagCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:34 PM

Paid my Mattel? I wish! Seems that Bil and I are on the same page. We both love tinkering and figuring outhow to make stuff do things it wasn't supposed to-- and do it ourselves. Exciting is a good word for it. Maybe Obsession is a better word for me. I dunno. Kinda like, "here, have a lego kit. There are plans for a few things inside, but with imagination you can do more!" It's the do more part that interests me. The HyperScan is like a super deluxe mega imported banned technic set of legos. And my classes are winding down-- I'm almost done so I can't have a full schedule, and that leaves me time to play!

A joke as it is now. After a few months of developing, tinkering and writing for it, it'll be a blast.

Nathan


LOL, hired by Mattel.
I wish.

If I did work for them, the console would have had better games at launch -- that's for sure. I'm just a fan of the underdog orphaned systems -- Atari Jaguar, TurboGrafx16, HyperScan, Atari 5200.... I own them all -- and I just like the rarity of the "flop" systems more. Everyone owned a Genesis or SNES back in the day -- but my TG16 was just something special for me.

I'm just another one excited by the fact that I bought a complete game system for seven bucks... The potential for hacking it is even more exciting. I love free software. Run Ubuntu on my computer. The fact that some of the more talented people might be able to bring more games to my 7 dollar console -- excites me even more.

I haven't been this excited since my Dreamcast purchase. Being able to download new games on a CD-R is an awesome thing.

#66 DragonmasterDan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:39 PM

Paid my Mattel? I wish! Seems that Bil and I are on the same page. We both love tinkering and figuring outhow to make stuff do things it wasn't supposed to-- and do it ourselves. Exciting is a good word for it. Maybe Obsession is a better word for me. I dunno. Kinda like, "here, have a lego kit. There are plans for a few things inside, but with imagination you can do more!" It's the do more part that interests me. The HyperScan is like a super deluxe mega imported banned technic set of legos. And my classes are winding down-- I'm almost done so I can't have a full schedule, and that leaves me time to play!

A joke as it is now. After a few months of developing, tinkering and writing for it, it'll be a blast.

Nathan


LOL, hired by Mattel.
I wish.

If I did work for them, the console would have had better games at launch -- that's for sure. I'm just a fan of the underdog orphaned systems -- Atari Jaguar, TurboGrafx16, HyperScan, Atari 5200.... I own them all -- and I just like the rarity of the "flop" systems more. Everyone owned a Genesis or SNES back in the day -- but my TG16 was just something special for me.

I'm just another one excited by the fact that I bought a complete game system for seven bucks... The potential for hacking it is even more exciting. I love free software. Run Ubuntu on my computer. The fact that some of the more talented people might be able to bring more games to my 7 dollar console -- excites me even more.

I haven't been this excited since my Dreamcast purchase. Being able to download new games on a CD-R is an awesome thing.


TG16 wasn't really a flop. It did fairly well for its first two years in the market. In Winter 1991 the Genesis packed in with Sonic smashed it and the platform was catering to a niche audence in the US after that. For the first two years in the US at least it was neck to neck with the Genny due in no small part to the fact that NEC had bonk, a platform game/ mascot to promote the platform. I don't realy consider it to be orphaned in the sense that the Jaguar, Hyperscan or 5200 was.

#67 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:46 PM

So basically nobody knows if this thing can even run arbitrary code? :ponder:

Does it run CDR copies of its software?

#68 DragonmasterDan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:16 PM

So basically nobody knows if this thing can even run arbitrary code? :ponder:

Does it run CDR copies of its software?


I thought someone said it could run CDRs.

#69 nathanallan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:21 PM

Yes, it can. More fun, it can run altered cd copies of the games (.mov and music files).

As soon as my HS gets here I can let you know if it runs arbitrary code. I still gotta figure out what language it speaks.

I think I'll put my Harry Potter flying/shooting game on this, once I figure out how to. No cards needed (if it'll do that).

Nathan

Edited by nathanallan, Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:21 PM.


#70 JagCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:32 AM

Yes, it can. More fun, it can run altered cd copies of the games (.mov and music files).

As soon as my HS gets here I can let you know if it runs arbitrary code. I still gotta figure out what language it speaks.

I think I'll put my Harry Potter flying/shooting game on this, once I figure out how to. No cards needed (if it'll do that).

Nathan


I've noticed a few familiar faces here also on the new HyperScan forum.... I just joined it myself.

Here's the link if anyone was curious: http://hyperscan.18.forumer.com/

Anyone know of a dedicated TurboGrafx site? I've really never found one besides stuff like Wikipedia.

#71 Student Driver OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:15 AM

I ordered two HS systems from the Circuit City website. (I can't believe that I broke my no-Circuit-City-purchase policy for this, but hey, I can assume they're making no profit on these.) It'll be interesting to see if I get them, however, as the website is showing they're sold-out again, no nearby stores have any, and I have yet to receive a confirmation e-mail of my order. I found it a little goofy that it's cheaper to order a second system instead of a spare controller. You'd think if they're clearancing the one, they'd clearance the other.

Anyway. Hopefully some kind of hacking/homebrew thing will come about, but I'm not going to hold my breath. (I've been waiting for years for game.com hackers to do something on that neat little system!) The rah-rah posts about what the HS can do are a little premature, and making claims about what programs will run on it is a hyperbolic. Let's see if someone can get a "Hello World" program running on it first.

#72 nathanallan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:53 PM

Mine just got here today-- not bad, four days and it's here. Packed well, and the box is in pretty good shape, too. I have too much to do today to really get into it, but I'll see if I can burn off a disk that has different files, like said before, and play it hacked.

Nathan

#73 shadow460 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:01 PM

For what it's worth, toys r us's website has the controllers at $9.98 with a $20 PayPal savings. Does that mean they'll pay me $10.02 to take a controller from them?

I would think you'd at least save something with that, but I'm not sure...

#74 DragonmasterDan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 PM

I got my hyperscan today, it came in a giant box with lots of air bubble protectors around it. I'm undecided as to whether I have any intention of actually opening it.

#75 phaxda OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:53 PM

I would recommend opening it. I got mine today and the box was beat to hell and I'm kinda ticked about that, but it was 11 bucks. What can I do. So anyway, I opened it up and well. I have been playing the damn thing all afternoon. I don't know why--I guess I am just 13 years old at heart. Sure, it's corny and the controls aren't always great (but the controller itself is not SO bad), but I like adding the skills and all of that stuff. I do not work for Mattel. I went looking for the Spiderman game at TRU with no luck, but I did buy a copy on eBay for a little over double what I paid for the system. So weird.

Anyway, I am pleasantly surprised by this little thing and I should have ordered 2 for the second controller. I don't know what I was thinking, dropped the ball on that one. And my nephew WILL love it. So, well, um, I guess I like it. I can definitely see this thing getting hacked too, which would be nice.

A quick edit, just because I did ignore the load time issue completely. Yes, things take a little too long to load. I call it an "opportunity for beer drinking."

Edited by phaxda, Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:19 PM.





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