Atari Flashback Jaguar

[nathanallan]

I remember going to Electronics Boutique in the mall here in El Paso and finding a Jaguar on clearance for $24-- and regret not picking it up when it was there That was years ago, I was in the army and didn't really have time for games then, though.

 

Great pic of the jag cart art! Maybe that ought to have its own console, as it's pretty close to what's happening to Atari (quest for identity).

 

I'd love to see a Jag flashback. I don't buy them for nostalgia, I buy them cause they're FUN.

 

Nathan

 

I bought my first Jag at a KB Toys for that price in El Paso. Greetings from someone in Alabama to someone in my birth place.

 

I don't think a Jaguar flashback would sell to well. I would probably buy one just to have another thing to add to the Jag collection.

So you're the one that bought it from the clearance basket? did you go to the one at the Cielo Vista Mall?? That's where I saw it for sale. Oh, the nostalgia! And what a small world (if that's the particular one you bought).

 

Nathan

[Gorf]

Someone find me these.....

 

Toshiba TC25SC VHDL simulation libraries

 

And not only will I get a Jag II running, I know it will sell.

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II.

[bdog_147]

I think it would be awesome to get one of the redesigned "Flashback" consoles based after the Jag.

 

What do you guys think? Possible or not?

 

I have never played a Jaguar (or a lynx,7800,or 5200 for that matter....feel like I'm missing out) so I would like to see this.

[+pboland]

Someone find me these.....

 

Toshiba TC25SC VHDL simulation libraries

 

And not only will I get a Jag II running, I know it will sell.

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II.

 

This may be a dumb question (and if it is I apologize), but what good is a Jag II without software? Unless you are saying you already have software? I agree that a Jag II (or what ever it would be called) would be cool.

 

Back to the topic:

 

It seems that some people don't think a Jag flashback would sell, because it sold so poorly, However who ever said you have to call it a Jaguar, or for that matter, make it look like a Jag? You could put the technology of the Jag in a box and call it what ever you want. You could even make it look like a new 2600 flashback. Have some simulators built in for the 2600, 5200/A8, 7800 and could even play jag games. I think it would be bought just because it would have the atari name on it. (as long as the shape of the flashback is something people recognize, like a 2600)

 

I think the biggest hurdle would be the cost. I don't know if it can be made cheap enough.

[+swlovinist]

I think that the system would sell....about 100 units to extreme Jag fans

 

 

1. Too expensive

 

2. Not a popular system(like the 2600 was)

 

3. Flashback to what? How to completely not make a system?

 

 

I am actually a big jaguar fan, but then again I like failed systems. I have all the released CD games minus homebrews and am down to 3 carts of the original releases. The system has some good games, but overall it is not a system I boot up for quality. Whenever someone comes over I show the good(AVP) with the bad(Fight for Life).

[Gorf]

Someone find me these.....

 

Toshiba TC25SC VHDL simulation libraries

 

And not only will I get a Jag II running, I know it will sell.

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II.

 

This may be a dumb question (and if it is I apologize), but what good is a Jag II without software? Unless you are saying you already have software? I agree that a Jag II (or what ever it would be called) would be cool.

 

Back to the topic:

 

It seems that some people don't think a Jag flashback would sell, because it sold so poorly, However who ever said you have to call it a Jaguar, or for that matter, make it look like a Jag? You could put the technology of the Jag in a box and call it what ever you want. You could even make it look like a new 2600 flashback. Have some simulators built in for the 2600, 5200/A8, 7800 and could even play jag games. I think it would be bought just because it would have the atari name on it. (as long as the shape of the flashback is something people recognize, like a 2600)

 

 

 

Not dumb but like I said.

 

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II."

[Math You]

It seems that some people don't think a Jag flashback would sell

I think that all of the newer Atari hardware whether it's a Jag, Lynx or ST would be difficult to sell as they don't really have the same feeling of nostaligia that the older consoles had.

 

I know I've mentioned this before, but a built in DVD player is one way of selling the Jaguar. If kids want a DVD player for their bedroom then why not buy a Jag so they can play games aswell? It might even be possible to play Blu-ray discs using the right software.

 

A built in modem for online games and surfing the internet might appeal to people who want the internet on their TV's.

[Gunstar]

While I'd love to see something new from Atari in the realm of another flashback, the most likely next item in the series, becuase it ws the next most popular, would most likely be an Atari 8-bit computer flashback console. Imagine a Flashback 3 that looks like a mini Atari 800 and has all the top 800/XL/XE games in it. After that, possibly an ST, since that was nearly or as popular, at least on a world-wide level. But I have a feeling that this Atari company is about at an end, like the rest, and the Atari name, at best, will be shuffled around again for a while. What it really needs is a company with an excellent track record of revival and introduction to get a hold of it, like, for example, Microsoft. If they can come out with an Xbox and take the industry by storm, like everything else they've done, they would also be a company that could make the Atari name a success again. Though they probably wouldn't be interested since the Xbox series is a success already, I don't see why they would want to start over again with a console wearing the Atari name. But at this point, IMHO, either a company like them needs to pick up Atari and make it a success again with a brand-new next-gen console, or the Atari name just needs to be finally and officially put to rest and just let it remain a vintage industry name and the domain of collectors.

[Math You]

But I have a feeling that this Atari company is about at an end, like the rest, and the Atari name, at best, will be shuffled around again for a while.

It looks that way. What Atari needs is a new owner who has a real sense of pride about how great Atari once was and how great it could be again. Legacy Engineering would be an excellent candidate.

[Gorf]

But I have a feeling that this Atari company is about at an end, like the rest, and the Atari name, at best, will be shuffled around again for a while.

It looks that way. What Atari needs is a new owner who has a real sense of pride about how great Atari once was and how great it could be again. Legacy Engineering would be an excellent candidate.

 

 

This would be wonderful. Curt and Mike are perfect for the task.

Also, the DVD/Jag idea is not so far fetched....

 

You sir, are cooking with gas! I like the way you think.

[BuddyBuddies]

Someone find me these.....

 

Toshiba TC25SC VHDL simulation libraries

 

And not only will I get a Jag II running, I know it will sell.

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II.

 

This may be a dumb question (and if it is I apologize), but what good is a Jag II without software? Unless you are saying you already have software? I agree that a Jag II (or what ever it would be called) would be cool.

 

Back to the topic:

 

It seems that some people don't think a Jag flashback would sell, because it sold so poorly, However who ever said you have to call it a Jaguar, or for that matter, make it look like a Jag? You could put the technology of the Jag in a box and call it what ever you want. You could even make it look like a new 2600 flashback. Have some simulators built in for the 2600, 5200/A8, 7800 and could even play jag games. I think it would be bought just because it would have the atari name on it. (as long as the shape of the flashback is something people recognize, like a 2600)

 

 

 

Not dumb but like I said.

 

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II."

you know i want couple of em'

[Gorf]

Someone find me these.....

 

Toshiba TC25SC VHDL simulation libraries

 

And not only will I get a Jag II running, I know it will sell.

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II.

 

This may be a dumb question (and if it is I apologize), but what good is a Jag II without software? Unless you are saying you already have software? I agree that a Jag II (or what ever it would be called) would be cool.

 

Back to the topic:

 

It seems that some people don't think a Jag flashback would sell, because it sold so poorly, However who ever said you have to call it a Jaguar, or for that matter, make it look like a Jag? You could put the technology of the Jag in a box and call it what ever you want. You could even make it look like a new 2600 flashback. Have some simulators built in for the 2600, 5200/A8, 7800 and could even play jag games. I think it would be bought just because it would have the atari name on it. (as long as the shape of the flashback is something people recognize, like a 2600)

 

 

 

Not dumb but like I said.

 

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II."

you know i want couple of em'

 

 

If they do whatI hope they do and Im pretty sure they can, Im rather sure more than a few will want these.

[Agent X]

I don't think a Flashback system based on the Jaguar would sell very well if it were called "Jaguar Flashback" or something that involved the Jaguar in the name. It's not so much because of any perceived negative stigma associated with the Jaguar name, but more like most of today's gamers that are in the market for something like this simply aren't familiar with the Jaguar, and therefore aren't able to form much of an opinion (positive or negative) based on that.

 

A self-contained console based on the Jaguar hardware, though, would have some promise. The Jaguar did have a fair amount of good games on it--enough to make a self-contained game console, anyway.

 

The problem is that rights to a lot of those games would have to be licensed, such as Rayman, Cannon Fodder, Alien vs. Predator, Power Drive Rally, Defender 2000, NBA Jam Tournament Edition, or Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure. The companies that own the rights to these properties would likely ask for a staggering amount of money, if they'd even be willing to discuss licensing it at all. You'd have to limit it to Atari-owned properties like Tempest 2000, Missile Command 3D, Evolution: Dino Dudes, Atari Karts, and...um...well, other Atari-owned properties. It's much the same problem that would prevent a self-contained ColecoVision from being made--many of its recognizable hit games were based on arcade games or other properties by Nintendo, Sega, and various other entities.

 

What would really fill out a project like this would be some homebrew productions, perhaps even getting homebrewers to concoct new Jaguar conversions of classic Atari games. Imagine having new conversions of Crystal Castles, Centipede or Food Fight done on Jaguar hardware, which could be reasonably close to the arcade games. Maybe throw in some vector games like Asteroids, Battlezone, and Lunar Lander for good measure. We could finally have that new Major Havoc game that was discussed at one point. Then, market it simply as an "Atari Classics" device, rather than an "Atari Jaguar" device. The hardcore fans will know it's Jaguar hardware on the inside, while the rest of the world can happily play faithful conversions of the games and be content with that.

 

Something like that could work, although I realize the chances of something like this happening are extremely slim, particularly since the market for these types of self-contained gaming systems has diminished dramatically in the last two years.

[Hyper_Eye]

So you're the one that bought it from the clearance basket? did you go to the one at the Cielo Vista Mall?? That's where I saw it for sale. Oh, the nostalgia! And what a small world (if that's the particular one you bought).

 

Nathan

 

That is where I bought my first Jag but it was probably before you saw one in the clearance bin. When I got mine they had a ton at that price and they lined a high shelf behind the register. They were well displayed. How nice it would be to see that again. The Jag games also had shelf space at the time. They went into a bin shortly after that but when I picked mine up the games and consoles were still well displayed and most of the games hadn't dropped below $5 yet. I believe I payed as much for AvP NIB as I did for the console itself. Doom was another first day pick up. I only remember important days vividly and it would seem that the day I picked up that first Jag was a pretty important one in my mind.

[BuddyBuddies]

Someone find me these.....

 

Toshiba TC25SC VHDL simulation libraries

 

And not only will I get a Jag II running, I know it will sell.

It will be MUCH more than just a Jag II.

 

This may be a dumb question (and if it is I apologize), but what good is a Jag II without software? Unless you are saying you already have software? I agree that a Jag II (or what ever it would be called) would be cool.

 

Back to the topic:

 

It seems that some people don't think a Jag flashback would sell, because it sold so poorly, However who ever said you have to call it a Jaguar, or for that matter, make it look like a Jag? You could put the technology of the Jag in a box and call it what ever you want. You could even make it look like a new 2600 flashback. Have some simulators built in for the 2600, 5200/A8, 7800 and could even play jag games. I think it would be bought just because it would have the atari name on it. (as long as the shape of the flashback is something people recognize, like a 2600)

 

I think the biggest hurdle would be the cost. I don't know if it can be made cheap enough.

the Jaguar II is completely backwards compatible,so you already have a library of games from the start buddy!

[+remowilliams]

you know i want couple of em'

Imagine the sales - they could sell like a whole 50 of them to the Jaguar community and sweetstuff4u would buy the other 999,950 made.

Hmm... I totally forgot BuddyBuddies. I'll have to rework my sales figures as he would undoubtedly sell his house, buy like 30,000 units and build a Jaguar hovel out of them to live in.

[BuddyBuddies]

you know i want couple of em'

Imagine the sales - they could sell like a whole 50 of them to the Jaguar community and sweetstuff4u would buy the other 999,950 made.

Hmm... I totally forgot BuddyBuddies. I'll have to rework my sales figures as he would undoubtedly sell his house, buy like 30,000 units and build a Jaguar hovel out of them to live in.

:lolblue:too funny..... :rolling:

[The Helper]

you know i want couple of em'

Imagine the sales - they could sell like a whole 50 of them to the Jaguar community and sweetstuff4u would buy the other 999,950 made.

Hmm... I totally forgot BuddyBuddies. I'll have to rework my sales figures as he would undoubtedly sell his house, buy like 30,000 units and build a Jaguar hovel out of them to live in.

 

LOL!

[Bill Loguidice]

Like most of you, I agree that anything associated with the Jaguar would be a disaster, simply because to the general gaming press and public, the Jaguar is a joke (and understandably so taken as a whole) and the point would continue to be hammered home, justified or not. I also agree that if it was called something else and the company made no mention of the Jaguar even in a technology usage sense, instead focusing on "Atari", they might have a chance to make something of it if they focused on simpler classic arcade-like games and stuck to 2D. The key though with all of this is of course to have minimal production costs for both hardware and software, being able to be quite profitable at hardware sales of 1 - 3 million units, and "hit" software sales of 50,000 - 150,000 units (the latter being a HUGE hit). To my mind, this could be best achieved with technology prior to the Jaguar, namely Atari 8-bit (or even 7800), since outdated technology could instead be seen as retro-cool and appeal at minimum to the aging gaming population who remembers this stuff from their youth (and bring in other demographics as a natural by-product). It's obviously a natural evolution to take these single use TV game products and allow for interchangeable game use. It has to be done right the first time though, because there likely will only be one chance to succeed with this idea. Hopefully the forthcoming Atari Flashback Portable (whatever it will be called) can see this through...

[Gorf]

If I ever did find those libs, I would certainly try to build me a chip for me FPGA dev board, but as far

as actuallyever getting to produce or sell the thing, that would take someone else VERY interested with

a lot of money to finance it. Again it would have to be MUCH more than a Jag to interest any large or

reasonable amount of sales. It could be done but I doubt Atari has any intenetions of speding any money

on much of anything right now. My guess is it would be a bit rough for even Curt to try to market such an

item on his own. He's certainly have my undivided support on it for sure. I like such challenges.

[Math You]

Didn't Hasbro when they owned Atari release all Atari rights to the Jaguar in '99

Is this true? So in theory anyone could make a Jaguar without Atari's permission....mmm, very interesting

[ovalbugmann]

Didn't Hasbro when they owned Atari release all Atari rights to the Jaguar in '99

Is this true? So in theory anyone could make a Jaguar without Atari's permission....mmm, very interesting

 

Yes, it's true. Back in '99 Scatologic made a deal with then Atari Jaguar rights owner Hasbro to get the encryption keys released to the Public Domain (Hasbro didn't want or have the time to deal with the Jaguar) so they could release BattleSphere with a properly encrypted binary. Hasbro did release the Jaguar to the Public Domain, and in return Scatologic gave all their profits from their BattleSphere game to Diabeties Research. However, Hasbro said they didn't know where the encryption keys were for the Jaguar. Later Curt Vendel, I believe, found them on an old AtariHQ HDD, and released them on his Atari Museum website.

 

 

Hasbro all Jaguar rights release

 

Hasbro Jaguar statement

 

The Jaguar's encryption keys

 

Just because hasbro released the Jaguar software keys to the PD for open development, doesn't mean the official Jaguar games go with it. The Jaguar being a dead system does not mean free and PD Jaguar games, just future open software development. You would still have to get the rights or license them from each Jaguar game developer to put them on a Flashback console to sell them again to the general public. So anyone could make a Jaguar flashback console, if they could reproduce the hardware (cheaply) and secure the rights to the Jaguar games in it's library.

 

Also, I'm sure several patents are held, in regards, to the Jaguar Hardware, it's proprietory RISC chips designed by John Mathison & Martin Brennon of Flare II corporation. To reproduce their functions would be an infringment of their hardware copyright holdings, and reproduction approval and royalites would certainly be due to the father of the Jaguar, I'm sure.

Edited January 5, 2008 by ovalbugmann

[Math You]

Also, I'm sure several patents are held, in regards, to the Jaguar Hardware

I knew there had to be a catch

[Gunstar]

Also, I'm sure several patents are held, in regards, to the Jaguar Hardware

I knew there had to be a catch

 

If Atari owned all patents and copyrights on the Jaguar's hardware, which I'm almost positive they did, and Hasbro, after aquiring Atari in whole, then owned those same patents and released the Jaguar into the public domain, then the hardware is in the public domain too. But if they ONLY released the encryption keys into the public domain, then only software can be developed for it freely and all patents for hardware and software would still be owned by the current owner(s) of Atari hardware patents and software copyrights for Atari owned games. All other software owners retain their software rights individually. So I it all comes down to what exactly was included in the release of the Jaguar into the public domain and if actual legal documents of it's release into the PD even exist. Those are not official legal paperworks (in the links), just announcements. Was there ever any official paperwork? Was Hasbro's release ever drawn up, or just announced it's release into the PD, but never followed thorugh on the legal paperwork? Maybe they just treated the Jaguar as PD while they owned it, then the current owner of Atari may still own the rights. I would assume that ScatoLogic and Hasbro did more than just agree or shake hands on all of this, but only ScatoLogic would know. Does ScatoLogic have legal document copies in their posession? And I'm not suggesting that ScatoLogic's and Hasbro's deal wasn't completely on the up-and-up, just that it may only have been valid as long as Hasbro owned Atari; if no offical legal documents of the Jaguar's PD release exist, and only the announcements, then EVERYTHING is in dispute as to if it's truely PD, now.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Gunstar

[downix]

Also, I'm sure several patents are held, in regards, to the Jaguar Hardware

I knew there had to be a catch

 

If Atari owned all patents and copyrights on the Jaguar's hardware, which I'm almost positive they did, and Hasbro, after aquiring Atari in whole, then owned those same patents and released the Jaguar into the public domain, then the hardware is in the public domain too. But if they ONLY released the encryption keys into the public domain, then only software can be developed for it freely and all patents for hardware and software would still be owned by the current owner(s) of Atari hardware patents and software copyrights for Atari owned games. All other software owners retain their software rights individually. So I it all comes down to what exactly was included in the release of the Jaguar into the public domain and if actual legal documents of it's release into the PD even exist. Those are not official legal paperworks (in the links), just announcements. Was there ever any official paperwork? Was Hasbro's release ever drawn up, or just announced it's release into the PD, but never followed thorugh on the legal paperwork? Maybe they just treated the Jaguar as PD while they owned it, then the current owner of Atari may still own the rights. I would assume that ScatoLogic and Hasbro did more than just agree or shake hands on all of this, but only ScatoLogic would know. Does ScatoLogic have legal document copies in their posession? And I'm not suggesting that ScatoLogic's and Hasbro's deal wasn't completely on the up-and-up, just that it may only have been valid as long as Hasbro owned Atari; if no offical legal documents of the Jaguar's PD release exist, and only the announcements, then EVERYTHING is in dispute as to if it's truely PD, now.

I've talked to a few people in Hasbro's legal department and even they're not 100% sure.

 

Incidentally, you need the Toshiba Verilog libraries, not the VHDL. *or* conversely you could modify the files to use another library setup such as Xilinx or Alteras.