40 replies to this topic

[Andrew Davie]

Hypothetically, if there were a limited edition release of Boulder Dash ® -- of course approved by First Star Software -- just how much do you think you would be prepared to pay for a copy.  Some people, for example, are happy to pay $100 for a picture cartridge of dubious nature.  I would imagine that Boulder Dash ® would be much more attractive to most.  But would you pay $100 for a copy?  Would you pay $200?  Just what is a reasonable amount to charge for such a 'jewel'?

I'm more interested in numbers rather than $ figures.  Is Boulder Dash ® intrinsically worth more (whatever that means) than, say, a cartridge producing 7 pictures in a slideshow?  If so, how much more...

Cheers
A

[Cybergoth]

I voted for "up to $50", since this one probably requires a too expensive board and possibly licensing fees, so it would be hard to break even with only $25.

[Impaler_26]

Hm... that's a good question....

I watched the Boulder Dash video on Youtube and it really looks quite stunning, i wouldn't have thought it would be possible on the 2600. You've done a great Job on it!  

But i personally wouldn't pay $100 or more for a copy. I haven't been following the development of this so i don't know if you need a special board or an Eprom larger than 32k. If so i would be willing to pay up to $50 for a cart, i wouldn't pay any more for a 2600 game no matter how good it is or what kind of hardware is used for the cart.

And IMO selling a 2600 cart for more than $100 (i guess we all know which one(s) i mean) is just plain and simple a major rip off, no matter what is included with it!!!

[Emehr]

I would happily pay $50 for the game on cart. It's a snazzy piece of work and easily worth the price of a game for a modern system. I've been following the notBD saga for a while and can appreciate the amount of work that went into it. That said, I would hate to see a $100 price tag on it. I wouldn't pay $100 for any game for any system. If sold at a premium price ($100 or more), I could only envision it becoming something that ends up moving from collector to collector via eBay, all the while becoming more and more prohibitively expensive, sitting on shelves, and never getting played. That would be an ironic and unfortunate destiny for this game.

For $50 I would buy it, play it, and give it a good home with the rest of my 2600 games. Heck, I would bend if the price were $75.

[potatohead]

It's a tech milestone --and fun to play!  Pretty potent combination --potent enough to warrant some effort to realize as a cart, IMHO.

Voted $75, but might go $100.  That really depends on the release time.  If I've got those dollars to blow, I'll likely pay.  The actual amount is not so important, other than pure availability on my part.  What is important is seeing Andrews work out there and enjoyed!  Might I suggest each cart come with an annotated assembly listing, or maybe some tech info, code snippets, etc...?  To me, that's some of the appeal.  Might be a nice value add --and maybe tutorial for other games with similar graphical needs.

IMHO, it's just damn cool to see this on the VCS.  Being signed and numbered is a nice bonus.  That, of course, has some nice collector value.  Don't care so much what number I get.  I'm not likely to sell it on that basis, though I also believe others will, and that's fine.  All part of the fun surrounding the hobby.  

In that vein, I'm on record now for absolutely buying a cart in that range.  I'm highly likely to be able to afford it, and that's really the boundary for me.

Glenn did a similar thing with the "Stella Has A New Brain" project for the Supercharger.  It took a long time for thing to come together.  Was worth the wait!  To this day, I pull that numbered CD out, play some of the games and it's special because of the effort that went in to realizing it in the first place.  I would think this would be similar.

I'm not sure how to answer the question on the picture cart.  Guess it's relative.  I think that TRON cart is kind of worthless.  Of course, I do not collect for status or completeness, just for play experiences and to capture and enjoy the tech milestones reached.  This effort is one of those that is attractive on that basis.

Suppose it comes down to the numbers of people collecting for the former reasons and not the latter...



Edit:  I don't think any of these numbers are significant to First Star.  They weren't for the Stella project.  That one ended up not being all that expensive, but it was a lot of work to secure the permissions necessary for it to happen.  At least with this effort, it's one stop shopping for permission.  In terms of actual bang for buck play value, I don't think this title is significantly higher than others produced.  The higher price, in my mind, would be warranted for the effort taken to get permission --and sadly and likely, who gets one and who does not.

Who knows?  Maybe First Star could see the hobby / tech aspect?  Gotta be a coupla people in the building, who grok the coolness of it, and the buzz surrounding it really only can improve the appeal of one of their properties.  That's gonna be weighed by the prospect of others asking for this and that, and the cost of it on their end.  At the higher end of the range here, there are enough dollars on the table to at least pay for the business end of things on their part.  (maybe)  Interestingly, that's enough dollars to have to ask for permission in the first place too.  

On the Stella project, it was billed as a not for profit hobby bit.  Somebody will have to ask Glenn if that had an impact or not.  Game preservation was a factor there too, where here it really isn't.

Anyway, however all that goes, I just wanted to say the higher cost seems appropriate given the IP issues.

Edited by potatohead, Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:52 PM.

[holygrailvideogames.com]

It would depend.  Would this be a cartridge only release or would you sell it with a box and manual?

I personally would not want a signed cartridge but a numbered cartridge with a signed (and matching number) certificate of authenticity would be nice.

Edited by holygrailvideogames.com, Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:51 PM.

[Chris-in-NJ]

I picked up Boulder Dash II for my 5200 and can't for the life on me figure out how to play it properly... :puzz:

Edited by Chris-in-NJ, Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:52 PM.

[Sayton]

I voted $25 but that's just cause I'm broke.

IF I had the funds, $50 tops.

[mojofltr]

Cybergoth, on Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:57 AM, said:

I voted for "up to $50", since this one probably requires a too expensive board and possibly licensing fees, so it would be hard to break even with only $25.

I was going to say something along these lines, but Cybergoth said it better than I would have anyways.  

[miker]

Up to $50 seems resonable.

Just wanna see this one finished.

[cosmosiss]

$50 if boxed.

[MagMax667]

I voted $50, but if the game was boxed, I'd probably be willing to pay $75. Boulder Dash is a special game, a game that everyone loves, but never thought possible to do on a 2600. You did a wonderful job.  

By the way, just out of curiosity, how large is the game? 16K? 32K? 64K? Or has that information not been released yet?

[SeaGtGruff]

I said up to $50 as well, but it was a toss up between that and up to $75. I'm *not* a collector, just a player-- there are a lot of games I didn't buy "back in the day," and I'm not about to buy them now at any price (low or high) just so I can try to round out my collection. I seldom buy anything unless I'm pretty sure I'd like to play it, and I rarely buy any video or computer games for more than $50. I have "Boulder Dash" on diskette for the Atari 8-bit computer, but I don't know if the diskette is still any good, and I don't have a working Atari 8-bit computer and disk drive right now. I know I enjoy "Boulder Dash," and I think it would be really cool to be able to play it on my Atari 2600. So I'd definitely pay up to $50 for it. But if I'm reluctant to shell out $60 for a really cool first-person RPG adventure for my PC, then I'm not sure if I'd be willing to pay up to $75 for "Boulder Dash" for the Atari 2600-- although I might.

Michael

[sandmountainslim]

I would pay 25-40 American Dollars for it,  I really am not so much a collector as a player myself.

Mr. Davie,
I gave five dollars for your NES game about Red October and it was a pretty good 'un but I imagine Boulder Dash would be better.
WP

[r_type2600]

$50 would be fitting for such a special homebrew release.
For one, the licensing issue and technical challenges would justify the higher price.
Also, I feel that the game's profile, gameplay and depth are so attractive that most players will accept the higher price, and it will probably go as fast as Adventure II.

On the other hand, a price beyond $50 would IMO dramatically reduce the number of potential buyers and limit it to hardcore collectors (and maybe a handful of BD fanatics) only.

IMO, if you're targeting a specific total $ revenue for the release, the more promising approach would be a higher number release than a high price (e.g. 300 x 50 instead of 200 x 75).
You could then release a fraction of these as boxed editions (say 75) at $75 to milk "satisfy" the hardcore collectors (including myself ).

[CPUWIZ]

$100 if it's boxed with insert and manual, but I wouldn't pay a cent for the Tron picture cart.  

[Andrew Davie]

MagMax667, on Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:18 AM, said:

By the way, just out of curiosity, how large is the game? 16K? 32K? 64K? Or has that information not been released yet?

16K ROM/RAM

[mimo]

$50 boxed or not, I am a player not so much of a collector

[Blackjack]

I'd honestly just have to hope for the rom, but it's a trick question in my case since I'm so frickin poor. If I won the lottery or something, I'd love to pay a hundred bucks and support the community, but now I have to worry about things like keeping the electricity on and getting food.

[tremoloman2006]

r_type2600, on Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:06 PM, said:

$50 would be fitting for such a special homebrew release.
For one, the licensing issue and technical challenges would justify the higher price.
Also, I feel that the game's profile, gameplay and depth are so attractive that most players will accept the higher price, and it will probably go as fast as Adventure II.

On the other hand, a price beyond $50 would IMO dramatically reduce the number of potential buyers and limit it to hardcore collectors (and maybe a handful of BD fanatics) only.

IMO, if you're targeting a specific total $ revenue for the release, the more promising approach would be a higher number release than a high price (e.g. 300 x 50 instead of 200 x 75).
You could then release a fraction of these as boxed editions (say 75) at $75 to milk "satisfy" the hardcore collectors (including myself ).

Very well said!  I'm in 100% agreement!

[legeek]

Fidy yo!

YO FIDY!

[Crazy Climber]

I would pay up to $100 for the cartridge if I had too, I wouldn't be happy about it though - lol
$50 for an unlimited edition cartridge then $25 for an unlimited run would be much better

[Gateway]

Hi Andrew,

My answer is based on my own experience programming  a "homebrew", organizing the elements, putting it together and presenting it for sale.

My "Silver Globetrotter" release was limited to 26( which will affect costs vs. making more might be a price reduction ), teaming up with help from this community to burn each unique ROM, printing the boxes and maps, folding, cutting, and including a few small extras, not to mention the planning and design of these elements to go in the limited edition...

That's a lot of time, energy, and social networking, and money spent to bring it all together. I felt a bit guilty charging $50 USD per boxed edition( $45 for Trotter hosts ), but frankly, I am barely breaking even on that particular project.

However, I am happy I only have 2 or 3 left unreserved still to sell, which equals success in my mind( with more time in January to focus on this I can give it my full attention ): plus I enjoyed the process and the appreciation shown by those who've purchased a copy, and that is what matters most to me.  

Your notBD game involved a lot more time and programming, and social networking than my "demo" release, so I would expect to pay $45-$50 USD for just a cart + manual for notBD. If you added a box, I would probably go up to $60 USD.

Any way you slice it I doubt you will make a "killing" on profit for this after all your expenses are covered, but you should get some reward for your effort. So, again the $40-$50 USD range sounds good to me, depending on your overall costs + labor.

Weston

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Gateway, on Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:37 AM, said:

Any way you slice it I doubt you will make a "killing" on profit for this after all your expenses are covered, but you should get some reward for your effort.

I suppose Andrew is not going for his own profit here, but looking for a way to make FSS an offer both sides can agree on.

E.g. 200 carts * ($50-$25 costs) = $5000 is the maximum he could offer FSS for a limited 200 cart run.

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:10 AM.

[Gateway]

You are right, Thomas.

Did not mean to make it sound like Andrew( or FSS ) expects to see a lot of money from this deal, but a fair amount per cart hopefully can be determined, since our community of hobbyists is really small compared to, say, the market for a new game put out for the XBOX360 or Nintendo Wii, for example.

@ 200 carts maximun sounds about right.

As an aside, the Lasercade 2600 boxed repro was limited to 100 copies at CGE 2007 back in July. It sold out quickly at the show!

Other boxed homebrews and repros in the past limited to 250 copies seem to take a bit longer( several months ) before they are sold out.

Again, this depends on the title, the popularity, w or w/o a box, etc.