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2600 idea - Jack and the Beanstalk


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#126 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:59 AM

The upwind DEFINATELY makes the game more of a challenge. Also like the way you changed the birds in the latest build. The second screen in particular was challenging to me, I lost three lives on that screen alone and kept falling up.
Great work, this may yet be thine masterpiece :)
Wp

#127 Kurt_Woloch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:07 AM

Keep reporting stuff you find wrong/improvements, I want this game to be as good as possible.


OK, uhm... seems you broke some things that already were working...

1. The fire button from the title screen now takes you immediately to the end message... but how do you start a game without going through the password screen now?
2. In Level 2, Jack doesn't fall down anymore... he can't go up and down while not on the beanstalk, but he can float left and right in mid-air without falling. And if you climb to the top of the beanstalk until you can't go up anymore, the way down is also blocked.
3. In Level 4, there now are several "dead-ends" where the beanstalk reaches to the bottom of the screen, but isn't continued in the screen below, which results in the game repeatedly changing between the upper and lower screen as long as you hold the joystick down. While this repeated changing occurs, the music also slows down.
4. You can't escape from the end message by any other means than switching off the VCS (or exiting the emulation).

#128 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:48 AM

Keep reporting stuff you find wrong/improvements, I want this game to be as good as possible.


OK, uhm... seems you broke some things that already were working...

1. The fire button from the title screen now takes you immediately to the end message... but how do you start a game without going through the password screen now?



He did this one on purpose, said it was going to be removed in the next version, it was just a demo.

The other things you listed are errors I believe.
Wp

#129 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:16 PM

Keep reporting stuff you find wrong/improvements, I want this game to be as good as possible.


OK, uhm... seems you broke some things that already were working...

1. The fire button from the title screen now takes you immediately to the end message... but how do you start a game without going through the password screen now?
2. In Level 2, Jack doesn't fall down anymore... he can't go up and down while not on the beanstalk, but he can float left and right in mid-air without falling. And if you climb to the top of the beanstalk until you can't go up anymore, the way down is also blocked.
3. In Level 4, there now are several "dead-ends" where the beanstalk reaches to the bottom of the screen, but isn't continued in the screen below, which results in the game repeatedly changing between the upper and lower screen as long as you hold the joystick down. While this repeated changing occurs, the music also slows down.
4. You can't escape from the end message by any other means than switching off the VCS (or exiting the emulation).

Thanks for reporting these. I'll work on them later today. I knew about #1 and #4, but the other two I didn't know.

#130 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:35 PM

i think i fixed all of them. i also improved the castle rooms some more, i fixed the right side of them to match the left.

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#131 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:47 PM

I played and beat this latest version - playing in the X26 emulator. JatBS is a clever idea and is a treat to give it a try.

I don't know how much more you wanted to add to the game, or how much more memory you have available. I think this is too special of a game to leave it as is though. Could you add different game variations to keep the game fresh across multiple plays? For example:

Game 1 - smaller and easy. Only have 5 screens each in Levels 1,2, and 4.
Game 2- the game as it exists now.
Game 3 - randomize the order of the 10 level 1 screens. change the color of the dogs and make them chase you directly if you delay on a screen too long. Another thing you could do is make the bird on each vine screen move right OR left - determine it each time the bird hits the end of the screen.

Something like those ideas. It'd also be cool to change-up the color palette -- make the walls vary in color pseudo-randomly each game for variety?

Good work! Looks like it was your 2008 project, looking over this thread.

#132 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 12:07 AM

I've updated the game.
To select a type for level 1, press the select switch until the option you want comes up. The following options are:
1 - screens in order (20 of them)
2 - screens in order (10 of them)
3 - screens random (20 of them)
4 - screens random (10 of them)

I need to work on some parts where the game sometimes gets above 262 scanlines.

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#133 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 8:39 AM

I've updated the game.


Just played the 20 random screen version, I like it. To me it seems to add to the gameplay by causing you to lose track of exactly how far you have travelled. I think version 3 shall be my choice when the game is finished.
Wp

#134 Kurt_Woloch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:33 PM

OK, I think I found some more bugs:

1. In Level 3, when the gate closes at the beginning which you have to open, it doesn't close completely, but leaves a small gap.
2. In Level 4, there's still a little glitch between, I think the 4th and the 5th screen from the bottom, where the beanstalk reaches a bit more to the right in the upper screen than it does in the lower one, so if you get to the rightmost end of the beanstalk and try to go down, that rapid screen changing thing happens again.
3. If you play variation 2, the 10 screens are not in order, rather it shows the first screen again and again (and I think both the positions of the troll and Jack update multiple times between each showing of it), and also doesn't end the level after the screen has been completed 10 times.

That's all for now, though I'm not sure if I found all the bugs... there may be more if you try to really play through varations 2-4, which I didn't do.

By the way, I think some scoring mode would be nice. Maybe a good idea would be some "bonus", where, say, you get a time of one minute for each screen, and at the end of each screen, the remaining time gets added as points. Or the time gets increased by, say, 30 seconds for each screen made. This would be the scoring for Level 1 (I'd suggest 10 points per second left over). Then, of course, you'd award a bonus for completing Level 1.

Then, at level 2, you'd do something similar, but here you'd have to keep track of the highest / lowest screen that has been completed so that if the player goes back, the timer doesn't reset, but only scores again when the player has reached a new screen it wasn't on before. Then, of course, another bonus for completing level 2.

For level 3, I'd put in a general timer, which gets increased by some amount for collecting each of the 2 items you have to collect, and at the end again gets accumulated as points, but I'd give points for the collected items too, and of course, another end-of-level bonus.

Level 4 would work the same as Level 2 scoring wise. Just a suggestion... otherwise we'll never have the opportunity of playing Jack and the Beanstalk in the High-Score competition. :-)

Here are some examples for the point values:
Level 1: Starting time 1:00 for each screen, 10 points for each second left over from that at the end of each screen, Level-End bonus of 1000 points
Level 2: Starting time 0:30 for each screen, 10 points for each second left over from that at the end of for each new completed screen, Level-End bonus of 1500 points
Level 3: Starting time of 3:00, 500 points and 1:00 increase for the harp, 1000 points and 1:00 time increase for the goose, 10 points for each second left over at the end of the level, Level-End bonus of 2000 points
Level 4: Starting time 0:20 (!) for each screen, 20 points for each second left over from that at the end of for each new completed screen, Game completion bonus of 3000 points

Edited by Kurt_Woloch, Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:39 PM.


#135 neotokeo2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 3:51 PM

uo0oRrfq9ck

For those who don't use emulation to test the games.
--NOTE-- My screen capture slows down the action about 15%. Actual gameplay is smoother and faster.

Edited by neotokeo2001, Thu Jan 1, 2009 3:53 PM.


#136 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:53 PM

I've updated the game.
To select a type for level 1, press the select switch until the option you want comes up. The following options are:
1 - screens in order (20 of them)
2 - screens in order (10 of them)
3 - screens random (20 of them)
4 - screens random (10 of them)

I need to work on some parts where the game sometimes gets above 262 scanlines.


Cool video by NeoTokeo btw.

Your 4 levels do add to the replayability! But I think you have a glitch on variation 2 - when you leave the screen, it keeps resetting to that screen again & again, forever it seems.

I played #3 and everything seemed fine there. Can screens repeat randomly? It would be best if you could do it with no repeats. Nobody likes to play the same level twice!

#137 Kojote OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 7:09 PM

YOUTUBE VIDEO
For those who don't use emulation to test the games.
--NOTE-- My screen capture slows down the action about 15%. Actual gameplay is smoother and faster.


Now that's a sweet video! And of course also nice game atari2600land.

#138 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 7:21 PM

the bugs mentioned above have been fixed (i think.)
As for scoring, I really would like to avoid it, as the code that i put in to get rid of it (const noscore=1) lets me have more space to have code without the scanline going above 262 (at least that's how i think it works.) I think I'm barely keeping it from going above 262 the way it is. Also, I don't think there's enough room. I only have 266 bytes left in bank 1 and 114 bytes left in bank 2. But if enough people clamor for it, i guess i'll cave in and add it.

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#139 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 7:39 PM

Tried level 2, saw no bugs. fyi.

#140 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 1, 2009 7:46 PM

That is a really nice video.

#141 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 4:25 AM

I put in the beginnings of a scoring system with bonus points for completing screens, etc. I can't figure out how to keep track of highest/lowest screens in levels 2 & 4, and if nobody can help me out, i may scrap the scores altogether. If you'd like to help me out, the variables you can use are listed right after the level_2 thing in the second bank in the .bas file. Also, I don't know what should happen if you run out of time in the castle (which you have 2 minutes. I'd like to make it longer, but i don't know how), should you lose a life or have it be game over? right now, if the time runs out in the castle, you just don't get any bonus points.

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#142 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 8:45 AM

I like the timer, that adds intensity to the game. The timer makes you take risks you otherwise would not take.
The scoring I am really neutral about, I can do with or without it.

Wp

Edited by sandmountainslim, Fri Jan 2, 2009 9:35 AM.


#143 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 9:58 AM

I can't try the new demo until tonight, but I also don't care about score in this type of game. If score is causing problems, I say axe it because it is kind of meaningless.

#144 gambler172 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:16 AM

Hi Chris
I do not care about a score.It is not really necessary for a game,like yours.Loosing a life,if you run out of time would be ok.
greetings Walter

#145 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 4:32 PM

Removed the score but kept the timer in. There is no timer in level 3, though. I also fixed what i considered a long-standing bug. You may have noticed when a dog kills Jack, he may go diagonally off the screen. This has been fixed (finally.)

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#146 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:11 PM

The thing about the timer - doesn't it make some of level 1 screens unbeatable? You have to wait until the random-moving troll gets out of your way, but with the timer counting down, your dead if you go to boldly and hit him, or if you wait until he passes.

I like the concept of the timer but I feel it isn't long enough .. either that , or can you actually influence how the troll moves?

#147 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:21 PM

I like the concept of the timer but I feel it isn't long enough .. either that , or can you actually influence how the troll moves?



I agree that it should be a little slower. My girlfriend just played the newest version and kept saying the timer is too fast for her also. I do love this game.
Wp

#148 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 3, 2009 12:26 AM

Slowed down the timer and fixed the level 4 beginning bug.

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#149 Kurt_Woloch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 3, 2009 9:11 AM

I put in the beginnings of a scoring system with bonus points for completing screens, etc. I can't figure out how to keep track of highest/lowest screens in levels 2 & 4, and if nobody can help me out, i may scrap the scores altogether. If you'd like to help me out, the variables you can use are listed right after the level_2 thing in the second bank in the .bas file. Also, I don't know what should happen if you run out of time in the castle (which you have 2 minutes. I'd like to make it longer, but i don't know how), should you lose a life or have it be game over? right now, if the time runs out in the castle, you just don't get any bonus points.


OK, I think I can help you out... I introduced the variable m in level 2, which keeps track of the maximum/minimum screen reached.
The initialization code changes as follows:

s=0 : v=0 : m=a
(m = a has been added, this sets m to the entering screen at the beginning)

The lines surrounding the label level_2_screens run as follows (line p=160 comes before level_2_screens, l=160 has been moved here):

p=160level_2_screens if player1y=88 && u=0 && a>m then statusbarlength=244 : m=a : l=160 : p=160 if player1y=8 && u=2 && a<m then statusbarlength=244 : m=a : l=160 : p=160

(The line p=160 after those lines should be removed since it has been moved before level_2_screens)

This additionally checks if the player has reached a new screen before refilling the status bar.

The scoring lines of level 2 have been changed as follows:

if player1y<5 && u=0 && a=m then score=score+p if player1y>88 && u=2 && a=m then score=score+p

(note the additional condition a=m here, which compares a to the maximum/minimum screen)

This checks if the player has completed the last screen he has reached (if not, he's gone back to a previous one, thus the score shouldn't be added)

The lines that lead back to level_2_screens now lack the statement "l=160" which has been moved to the lines immediately following level_2_screens, thus they run:

if player1y<5 then player1y=88 : f{0}=0 : player0y=0 : player0x=0 : a=a+1 : goto level_2_screens

and:

if player1y>88 && a>1 then player1y=8 : a=a-1 : f{0}=0 : player0y=0 : player0x=0 : goto level_2_screens

This prevents the status bar from changing if the score doesn't get awarded.
These changes cost exactly... 40 bytes (but optimizations are probably possible).

Edited by Kurt_Woloch, Sat Jan 3, 2009 9:14 AM.


#150 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 3, 2009 10:32 AM

I put the score back in. Thanks to Kurt for programming the scores for levels 2 & 4.

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