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CLSN Pascal


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#1 tjb OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:41 PM

While perusing the June 1989 issue (for the first time) I ran across an ad for CLSN Pascal. I for one have never heard of this product. Interestingly it mentions "for the Atari 130XE". Also, it reads "Editor and compiler are all in one complete, integrated programming environment - no program swapping". It sounds like it takes full advantage of the 130XE's 128K. Finally, it mentions that it generates 6502 machine code and not pcode. It sounds really interesting to me. Anyone had any experience with this one?

Thanks,
tjb

#2 hunmanik OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 2, 2009 9:14 PM

While perusing the June 1989 issue (for the first time) I ran across an ad for CLSN Pascal. I for one have never heard of this product. Interestingly it mentions "for the Atari 130XE". Also, it reads "Editor and compiler are all in one complete, integrated programming environment - no program swapping". It sounds like it takes full advantage of the 130XE's 128K. Finally, it mentions that it generates 6502 machine code and not pcode. It sounds really interesting to me. Anyone had any experience with this one?

Thanks,
tjb


I often thought about it but never got it.  Not long ago I saw a photocopy of the manual, that was my closest encounter.


Here's the referenced ad, from ANALOG #73, June 1989, p. 77.
CLSNPascal_ad.jpg

Here also is the blurb on p.18 of the Summer 1991 B&C ComputerVisions catalog.
CLSNPascal_BnC.jpg

Edited by hunmanik, Mon Feb 2, 2009 9:21 PM.


#3 tjb OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 2, 2009 9:33 PM

Thanks for posting the ads. I wonder if B & C could provide some information since they sold it once upon a time.

tjb

#4 russg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:15 PM

While perusing the June 1989 issue (for the first time) I ran across an ad for CLSN Pascal. I for one have never heard of this product. Interestingly it mentions "for the Atari 130XE". Also, it reads "Editor and compiler are all in one complete, integrated programming environment - no program swapping". It sounds like it takes full advantage of the 130XE's 128K. Finally, it mentions that it generates 6502 machine code and not pcode. It sounds really interesting to me. Anyone had any experience with this one?

Thanks,
tjb

(This goes back to 2008)  CLSN Pascal is now available at atarimania.



#5 tjb OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:28 PM

(This goes back to 2008)  CLSN Pascal is now available at atarimania.

Sweet! Thank you for following up on this...I'll have to check it out. I totally forgot about this.



#6 gozar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:25 PM

Ok, that's pretty cool. Wish I would have know about it in '89...



#7 Allan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:48 PM

Does anybody know who programmed this?

 

Allan



#8 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:15 PM

Looks good, this. Although the readme mentions USE OSRAM with reference to SpartaDOS, CLSN.EXE has problems with SDX which appear to be caused by the program trying to install itself into extended RAM by manipulating PORTB during the load.



#9 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:22 PM

I would rather guess that the recommendation to USE OSRAM may be to leave all the additional 64k free in 130XE. But I may be wrong, did not try the program. PORTB manipulations during load should not be a problem anyway.

#10 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:57 PM

Yeah - I figured that direction was to ensure all extended banks were unoccupied. USE OSRAM doesn't fly with the current SDX (memlo too high with X present; CLSN loading code as low as $1C00/$1D00 in places), and USE BANKED results in code crashing after doing a PORTB write on the way out. It hits a BRK, suggesting that the code it switched in isn't the code that's supposed to be there.



#11 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:22 PM

That depends how much extensions you load. For example:

USE OSRAM
DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM 8 16
DEVICE SIO
DEVICE IDEPTIME

gives memlo $1308, and with X.COM loaded - $19C6, so it should fit, even if it loads at $1C00. With DEVICE SIO /A it is even $10DB/$1799.

Of course, no such programs, which explicitly load to the Ext (like ENV, DOSKEY etc.) are allowed.

As for the crash, I will have to try it myself.

#12 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:24 PM

Indeed, and I haven't tried putting CONFIG.SYS on a severe diet yet. I hope it can work.

 

EDIT: works using your suggested CONFIG.SYS (didn't bother with the buffer parameters). Runs nicely from a folder on drive C, IDE Plus 2.0.

 

BTW: shouldn't it be possible to leave the upper four banks of extended RAM free for CLSN.EXE while using BANKED?


Edited by flashjazzcat, Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:12 PM.


#13 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:10 PM

Here's a short article about it:

ATARI CLASSICS Volume 2, Issue 5 / October 1993 / PAGE 25


Edited by MrFish, Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:11 PM.


#14 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:48 PM

 

It would have been nice if the article would have at least given a cursory explanation of what the "minor bugs" are. He simply wrote:

 

"...since it's the first version, there are some minor-but not insurmountable- bugs in the compiler."

 

Hopefully that means he's talking about version 1.0, and that since the version available at Atarimania is 1.1 they've already been fixed.


Edited by MrFish, Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:51 PM.


#15 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:19 AM

shouldn't it be possible to leave the upper four banks of extended RAM free for CLSN.EXE while using BANKED?


With my remark on ENV, DOSKEY etc. I meant "on a bare 130XE" (naturally, because the compiler requires the additional 64k entirely free). When there is more memory, it should work even with some extensions loaded, because the banks in SDX are allocated starting from the highest logical number (= the highest memory index), whereas the 130XE-compatible banks have the lowest memory indexes.

F.e. if the computer has 256k extra RAM, the banks are assigned memory indexes 4-19 (0-15, with 4 added). When the user loads something that wants a bank, e.g. DOSKEY, the bank 19 will be assigned to that program, bank 18 as the next one etc. 130XE banks occupy indexes 4-7, so they should be free most of the time.

Edited by drac030, Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:51 AM.


#16 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:03 AM

Update: sacrificed few minutes to test it: CLSN.EXE runs without any problem in USE BANKED on a 320k Atari, with some stuff loaded to the ext (ENV, SPARTA.SYS, SIO.SYS, cON.SYS, COMEXE, RUNEXT, DOSKEY etc.), memlo $14A1. Loaded CLSN.EXE from harddisk, compiled and executed TOWER.PAS, no problems.

#17 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:49 AM

Good. I think I'm gonna discover upon returning to the PC that I had Altirra set up as a stock 130XE without realising it.

#18 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:30 AM

Nope: I reasonably doubted myself, but without cause this time. Crashes at the same place (BRK at $629B) in Altirra (various memory configurations) and on real hardware immediately upon entering the editor (address unknown).

 

USE BANKED

DEVICE SPARTA

DEVICE SIO

DEVICE ATARIDOS

DEVICE ULTIME

 

MEMLO is $0F75 on real hardware (SDX 4.46; SDX 4.47 in emulation). CLSN.EXE is in a folder "CLSN" on the hard disk (IDE Plus 2.0 in emulation, IDEa on real hardware) and started (obviously) with "X". Presumably I'm doing something else daft...



#19 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:00 AM

Hmm, yes, there is a problem: in any other configuration than my default one (speak of luck) it behaves as you describe. Moreover, the behaviour is not consistent, it may be black screen, or corrupt screen, or just a lockup. Operating system development is fun.

Needs further investigations as it seems. The problem is that these days I do not have time for any serious coding/debugging.

#20 Alfred OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:14 AM

Is the manual for this available anywhere ? The Atarimania zip has just the atr.



#21 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:42 AM

Is the manual for this available anywhere ? The Atarimania zip has just the atr.

Check the Atarimania site again I just got mine from there it is well below the place you click for the ATR.. or here http://www.atarimani...CLSN_Pascal.pdf

 

I put this on  hard drive also but the Autorun.sys need to be run for the CLSN.EXE  program not to crash,  so leave the atr mounted as drive #1 'D1:' and then the program does not crash when run from partition..  Also any compiled and written to disk programs need the 'x' or comexe or a crash will occur because the 'OBJ' file doesn't terminate.. 


Edited by rdea6, Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:09 AM.


#22 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:56 AM

I put this on  hard drive also but the Autorun.sys need to be run for the CLSN.EXE  program not to crash,  so leave the atr mounted as drive #1 'D1:' and then the program does not crash when run from partition.


Superb - thanks for that: works as you describe. Now to find out what AUTORUN.SYS actually does, or at least modify it so it doesn't insist on loading the main binary from drive 1.

Note, regarding changing PORTB on the fly during binary load, this won't work with certain versions of disk-based SpartaDOS, as discussed in the ACUSOL thread a while back. Not every version preserves the state of PORTB after loading segments, although as stated SDX doesn't have an issue with this. I haven't tested CLSN Pascal with disk-based Sparta, however, so who knows if it works at all.

Quick glance at AUTORUN.SYS: it loads the main binary and presumably handles RUN/INIT slightly differently to a straight DOS load. Hopefully frequent use of JSR CIOV immediately followed by RTS doesn't propagate through the rest of the software.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:06 AM.


#23 UNIXcoffee928 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:49 AM

This thing is from the time of "SpartaDOS Construction Set"... maybe just use that for the times when you're using Pascal.



#24 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:18 PM

The software is dated 1989, which is I think one year after SDX was released. In any case, the manual explicitly mentions configuring SDX via "USE OSRAM" in CONFIG.SYS. It seems problems under either DOS can be avoided by using AUTORUN.SYS.

#25 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:27 PM

I HEXEDITED my autorun.sys file to change the 'D1:' to a 'D:' and on the partition I changed the name of autorun.sys to CLSN.COM and run the program with 'x clsn' and it will load the program from the partition now without crashing.... Just wished the program would EXIT to a clear screen..






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