Jess Ragan Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 How do I do it? I imagine that it would be just a simple on/off throw switch that would require only two connections, but I've opened up the ColecoVision and now I'm not so sure. It looks like the (crummy) switch inside the machine has SIX points of connection... what's that all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Anybody? Doubledown? You've done this before, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Anybody? Doubledown? You've done this before, right? Me, what? I don't know what you mean! Oh wait, yeah that's right, I have done this. The standard ColecoVision power switch is a DPDT (double pole, double throw) switch. Meaning that its basically 2 switches that can be connected in one of two ways. Technically one of the throws for each pole is not used. So while the standard switch has 6 contacts, only 4 are used. The center contacts are the live contacts. The one nearest the left edge of the board is the +12V line and the inner one is the +5V line. When the switch is is slid to the rear (ON position), the center (live contacts) make contact via the internal contact slides to the rear contacts which then send the +12V and +5V to where they need to go and power on the PCB. When the switch is slid forward (OFF position) the center (live contacts) make contact via the internal contact slides to the front contacts which aren't connected to anything. Coleco could have used a DPST switch, which is all that is needed, but DPDT switches are more standard and probably easier and cheaper to find. And by the by the -5V from the power supply is always on, which is why the ON/OFF switch is only a double pole not a triple pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) Would some clever wiring be able to make a double pole single throw switch work? Could I see the wiring you used to make your project? It's much easier for me to learn by example rather than tracing schematics. I think I understand what you're saying though. You're telling me that this... 11 11 00 is on while this... 00 11 11 ...is off. Is that correct? Edited July 29, 2008 by Jess Ragan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Would some clever wiring be able to make a double pole single throw switch work? Could I see the wiring you used to make your project? It's much easier for me to learn by example rather than tracing schematics. I think I understand what you're saying though. You're telling me that this... 11 11 00 is on while this... 00 11 11 ...is off. Is that correct? Right. So say you get a new switch. Say a DPDT like the original. Use a multi-meter to determine which contacts are connected to the centers when the switch is in each position to determine which way you want to be on and off. Like for my switches I have when the button is pressed down (and is latched down) the console is on, and the light is on. Where when pressed again the buttons pops back up and the console is off. If you get a toggle switch the contacts are usually the opposite position as the switch. So if you were to look at the switch from the side with the contacts pointing down, the toggle up, and the switch would move from right to left, and left to right. When the switch is to the right, the left contact is connected to the center, and of course the opposite when the switch is to the left. If you get a pushbutton switch the contacts are usually noted as NO (normally open) and NC (normally closed). The NC contact is connected to the center when the button is up and not pressed, and the NO is connected when the button is pressed down. So with either a DPDT, or DPST the contacts on the PCB: 1 2 3 4 5 6 1= +12V switched to PCB 2= +5V switched to PCB 3= +12V live from power supply 4= +5V live from power supply 5= Not Used 6= Not Used But if you wanted to have 2 leds on your console like most modern LCD monitors have with red for off, but power attached, and green for on, you could use the 5 or 6 for the console off, but power attached led. So while a DPST switch can be used, it will only have for contact points and PCB contacts 5 and 6 wouldn't be connnected, I think you'll find its easier to find a DPDT switch. And again if you want to connect all 6 wires you can, but only the common (middle) points and NO contacts on the switch and points 1, 2, 3, and 4 on the PCB need to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) (headdesk) I bought a single pole single throw rocker switch. I don't suppose there's a way I could use this in the project? Edited July 29, 2008 by Jess Ragan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybastard Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 (headdesk) I bought a single pole single throw rocker switch. I don't suppose there's a way I could use this in the project? I'm an amateur but I'm going to guess no because the 5v and 12v lines need to be separated. I'm pretty sure a single throw wouldn't have the proper contacts for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 (headdesk) I bought a single pole single throw rocker switch. I don't suppose there's a way I could use this in the project? No you can't use a single pole because the voltages need seperate lines. You could use 2 SPST switches, but why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Looks like I've got some shopping to do, then! Thanks for all the advice. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a switch to unglue from my ColecoVision's case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Looks like I've got some shopping to do, then! Thanks for all the advice. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a switch to unglue from my ColecoVision's case... Glue?!? Come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 I'm just glad I didn't use the JB Weld! That stuff NEVER comes off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Glue, JB Weld, what's next scotch tape!? Come on now, lets shoot for the stars and attempt to acheive a little professionalism in our video game mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 (headdesk) I bought a single pole single throw rocker switch. I don't suppose there's a way I could use this in the project? No you can't use a single pole because the voltages need seperate lines. You could use 2 SPST switches, but why? You can if you make the switch control a DPST/DPDT relay or two SPST relays that control the 12v and 5v lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Glue, JB Weld, what's next scotch tape!? Come on now, lets shoot for the stars and attempt to acheive a little professionalism in our video game mods. Now you've got me REALLY confused. What do you use? I can't think of anything other than glues and epoxies for projects like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybastard Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 It depends on the switch but most of the ones I've used for various projects have some kind of mounting scheme. Either a threaded shaft with a nut or a face plate with pressure tabs or some just have screw holes. Gluing it would just make it a pain to change out in the future if it goes bad. For a CV power switch, I'd look for one that would just be held in place by the contacts themselves and had a black faceplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) It depends on the switch but most of the ones I've used for various projects have some kind of mounting scheme. Either a threaded shaft with a nut or a face plate with pressure tabs or some just have screw holes. Gluing it would just make it a pain to change out in the future if it goes bad. For a CV power switch, I'd look for one that would just be held in place by the contacts themselves and had a black faceplate. I'm not the best at cosmetics, but it frustrates me when I end up having to put something like that on a mod. The panel mount stuff can look clean, but generally not "factory" unless you can somehow machine a slight recess for it to drop into. The stuff with the obvious external fasteners? Blech...unless you're going for that industrial look, and then using only one such element will look out of place. I haven't had a problem with my CV power switch and have only used it so far for testing games and studying the controller. What kind of switch is in there, a push-on push-off? Or does it have some 'lectronics controlling the toggle like the stupid INTV2 switch that just barely works on my machine? I'm thinking a DPST switch commonly used with an old AT computer power supply might be useful if you can't find something that solders directly to the board. Edited July 30, 2008 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybastard Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) Well admittedly, I don't care about the cosmetics. I'll try to find something that looks nice but I'm much more interested in function over form. Edited July 30, 2008 by joeybastard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I use "panel-mount" items for all of my switches, buttons, a/v jacks. Depending on the items it will either have a threaded shaft with a washer/nut on the rear, or it will have spring-lock tabs to hold the devices into place. This is partially why it took me so long to find the replacement switches (push-buttons) I use on the ColecoVision as they had to fit in the original holes. Function over form is fine if you want to do something for the sake of seeing if you can do something, but if you're making a sellable/marketable product it "has" to look good. As far as finding a replacement for the ColecoVision, the standard DPDT slide switch is PCB mounted, but the actual plastic piece that you touch with your fingers to turn the console on and off, is like 1.5" long to make contact with the switch that is that far down from the top of the case. In which case you could "glue", "JB Weld", or epoxy a small plastic plate to the underside of the top half of the console to cover the original rectangular switch hole, and mount a panel-mount switch through it. Worst case check Radio Shack they should carry a few in stock that will suit your needs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Well, looks are pretty important to me. Having said that, many of my mods aren't the prettiest on the block... the Vectrex controller that I made from an old Red Octane joystick (remember when they used to make things other than guitars?) definitely won't win any beauty contests. I plucked out a couple of the buttons but couldn't find a way to remove the rims, resulting in two empty holes. If given the choice, I would rather hot glue a switch into place and keep the mod fairly inconspicuous than use Frankenstein bolts that awkwardly jut out of the system. However, I can certainly see the advantages of using screws or bolts... you'd never have to worry about the glue loosening and your switch falling into the ColecoVision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hmm, panel mounting is a pretty good idea. Hate to have to glue this thing down only to have to open it up later... By the way, the rocker switch is functional, but I'm at a loss as to how I'll install an LED in this system. I can get an LED to power on regardless of whether the system is on or not by connecting it to the +5V and ground pins on the motherboard. I can also get an LED to power on when the system is turned OFF, by connecting it to the pins on the switch, or the switch holes on the motherboard. However, I can't make the LED power on when the system is turned on. What am I doing wrong? Do I need an inverter of some kind to make the LED behave properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) Hmm, panel mounting is a pretty good idea. Hate to have to glue this thing down only to have to open it up later... By the way, the rocker switch is functional, but I'm at a loss as to how I'll install an LED in this system. I can get an LED to power on regardless of whether the system is on or not by connecting it to the +5V and ground pins on the motherboard. I can also get an LED to power on when the system is turned OFF, by connecting it to the pins on the switch, or the switch holes on the motherboard. However, I can't make the LED power on when the system is turned on. What am I doing wrong? Do I need an inverter of some kind to make the LED behave properly? I'm guessing there are several things you need (at this point, I don't think an inverter should be one of them: * A current limiting resistor in series with your LED sized appropriately for the voltage that you pick off the board (either the 5v or 12v DC supply should work). * Make sure you understand the proper connection polarity for the LED. * A basic multimeter * Make sure you're connecting to a terminal on the switch that is switched (rather than hot all the time) and pick up your power from there. * Make sure you what you think is ground really is ground. An internet search will turn up the information you need to make sure you're properly connecting an LED to a power supply. The multimeter will let you easily assure that you're picking up power from the right terminal. I saw some digital multimeters at a cheapo tool store the other day for under $5.00. I don't mean to imply that you don't know or have those things, but I can see me having the issues you describe if I didn't know/have those things. If you're still totally stuck after you have the tools and information, keep posting your specific questions and I'm sure somebody here can help you. It might take me weeks to get around to it, but I can dig out and open up my CV if necessary. Edited August 1, 2008 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 So you've got a DPDT or DPST rocker wired and it works to turn the ColecoVision on and off? If so wire the LED's ground leg to ground anywhere. For the voltage leg, solder a resister to it (appropriately sized) usually a hunderd ohms or so is fine, then wire that to the same place on the PCB that the switched side of the switch is wired to, or the switched side of the switch. Basically the more resistance (higher the ohms rating) the dimmer the light will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 Oh yeah, I got the resistor in series with the LED. The lamp burns out in a couple of seconds if you don't! I've also got the multimeter, but I just used that to determine which posts on the switch I needed to solder to the motherboard. I've got all that taken care of, but I'm remarkably hapless with electronics so I don't blame you for asking those questions. So you're saying I should solder the ground wire of the resistor to ground on the motherboard and the power to the +5V pin of the switch, rather than soldering both connections to the switch or the motherboard? I'll give that a try and let you know how it worked. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Here's an update! The switch works, the LED works... pretty much everything works but the 2600 adapter, which displays video but won't play sound. You're supposed to have the sound wire connected directly to the sound chip, right? Also, I heard on another forum that you can improve the quality of the video output by connecting a 47uH capacitor and a 75Ohm resistor to the video wire. Has anyone tried this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Here's an update! The switch works, the LED works... pretty much everything works but the 2600 adapter, which displays video but won't play sound. You're supposed to have the sound wire connected directly to the sound chip, right? Also, I heard on another forum that you can improve the quality of the video output by connecting a 47uH capacitor and a 75Ohm resistor to the video wire. Has anyone tried this? Glad to hear. What did you end up using for the switch? Don't know anything about the video mod, but I think you mean 47uF cap. uH is a measure of inductance (in a coil). That circuit modification should have the effect of filtering out undesirable frequencies and impedance matching the output of the video source to the 75ohm TV input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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