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Anyone think Ballblazer is possible on the 2600?


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#251 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:19 PM

I feel that ZylonBane's rendering from this post was closest:

http://www.atariage....s...t&p=1607800

If that could be tweaked a bit, it's the one that reminds me most of the 8-bit version of the game..


OK, then how about this?



I've tweaked ZylonBane's version a bit, and while it's not perfectly in tune, it seems like a happy medium.

Unfortunately it doesn't start for me properly in Stella..

By the way, I mainly know the 7800 version. Is the 8-bit melody different?

Here it is, complete with the intro. :)

qri5xavBdh4

..Al

#252 Nathan Strum OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:26 PM

Awww man... we never got all of that extra cool intro-stuff on the 7800.

The music sounds identical though.

#253 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:33 PM

Awww man... we never got all of that extra cool intro-stuff on the 7800.

The music sounds identical though.

The music goes on for a while--need to find a recording where someone doesn't start a game. :)

..Al

#254 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:45 PM

Thanks for the Youtube link, that was very helpful, especially as my (outdated) copy of MacSDLMess is suffering from all kinds of crazy sound glitches.

OK, I think I've gotten it:

Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt3.bas.bin   4KB   266 downloads

What does everyone think of this?

(BTW Albert I think the problem w/ the previous attachment was a mistake on my end; this one should work.)

Edited by thegoldenband, Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:48 PM.


#255 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:52 PM

What does everyone think of this?

(BTW Albert I think the problem w/ the previous attachment was a mistake on my end; this one should work.)

That sounds quite good--can you turn it into an entire tune that would repeat on the title screen? :D

..Al

#256 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:02 PM

That sounds quite good--can you turn it into an entire tune that would repeat on the title screen? :D

Thanks! Here's a slightly updated version with a few tweaks, plus source:
Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt4.bas   2.03KB   174 downloadsAttached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt4.bas.bin   4KB   269 downloads
Though I'm not sure that I can do it right now, the extra bar that makes it loop shouldn't be a problem to add -- it's just a couple extra notes which are readily available (26 and 29 in distortion setting 1, plus 15 in setting 7). It's just a matter of adding a tiny bit of extra data, and then modifying the loop routines appropriately.

EDIT: And here you go!
Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt5.bas   2.34KB   207 downloadsAttached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt5.bas.bin   4KB   274 downloads

Edited by thegoldenband, Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:33 PM.


#257 mos6507 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:41 PM

That's it. Maybe a tad too slow, but it's real close.

#258 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:45 PM

That sounds fantastic! It's great to hear that coming out of the 2600! I do agree, it seems a touch slow, would have to try it on real hardware to see how it sounds. Much better than what I was expecting. :)

..Al

#259 Nathan Strum OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 7:21 PM

Nice! :thumbsup:

I agree, it seems a little on the slow side.

#260 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:23 PM

Here's a "SAP" of the 8-bit version:
Attached File  Ballblazer.zip   2.07KB   210 downloadsSpeed is for 50hz/PAL, so slow for all those used to hearing on NTSC.

I believe there was also at least one other distinct version out there somewhere. Although it's been too long since I last compared versions to point you to it.

#261 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:47 PM

I found a couple small rhythmic errors in the file (a couple notes/pauses were longer than they should have been). I have corrected them, as well as tweaking one or two other things:

Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt6.bas   2.34KB   211 downloadsAttached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt6.bas.bin   4KB   284 downloadss.bin]
I think the rhythmic glitches made the overall tempo seem slower than it actually was. Does it seem quick enough now to folks, or does it need to be even faster? I checked against the Youtube file, and it seemed pretty much the same to me.

Edited by thegoldenband, Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:54 PM.


#262 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:43 PM

That one boop in the background that comes around once in a while should be changed a bit or at least have its volume turned down, but the whole thing is much better than it was.

#263 TrekMD OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:47 PM

Wow, amazing how well that sounds!

#264 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:50 PM

That one boop in the background that comes around once in a while should be changed a bit or at least have its volume turned down, but the whole thing is much better than it was.

I agree, that one does stand out a bit..

..Al

#265 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:56 PM

That one boop in the background that comes around once in a while should be changed a bit or at least have its volume turned down, but the whole thing is much better than it was.

Good catch, that helped me find one more small thing that needed to be tweaked:
Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt7.bas   2.34KB   233 downloadsAttached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt7.bas.bin   4KB   281 downloads
The lower note in the "boop" was an octave too low, compared to the way it sounds on the 8-bit.

Roland, I think this version is ready for inclusion, if you'd like to add it to your WIP!

Edited by thegoldenband, Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:58 PM.


#266 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:03 PM

That's better. Now if you could get that "doo doo doodit doo" near the end of the loop to sound a little less off key, it would sound even better. Since you're posting the bas file, I could try to hunt down notes that are closer by hand with Tone Toy 2008, but I don't understand which numbers are the notes in your program. Where should I be looking?

#267 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:31 PM

That's better. Now if you could get that "doo doo doodit doo" near the end of the loop to sound a little less off key, it would sound even better. Since you're posting the bas file, I could try to hunt down notes that are closer by hand with Tone Toy 2008, but I don't understand which numbers are the notes in your program. Where should I be looking?

ZylonBane's code* processes the data in blocks of seven numbers, as in the comments:

rem voice 0 frequency, volume, distortion
rem voice 1 frequency, volume, distortion
rem duration

One beat is equal to 24 duration-units. The "doo doo doodit doo" section you're wanting to tweak falls right after the loop point I've set, and begins with:

14,6,12
29,6,1
18

That's the first "doo", which is more in tune than the rest of it.

That being said, I don't know that you'll have a lot of luck finding more in-tune notes -- there really isn't anything else available in the lower octave, which is where the problem is. Eckhard's guide calls those two notes h1 and e1, following German notation; they correspond to notes 15 and 23 on distortion setting 7. Distortion setting 1 doesn't go that low, and setting 14 is just as out-of-tune (for the e1).

*(which is, I believe, a refinement of the code by Kisrael that I've used for all my previous tunes)

Edited by thegoldenband, Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:37 PM.


#268 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:39 PM

Thanks for the explanation. And thanks for posting the .bas file so we can at least try. Even if I can't find better notes, I'll have fun trying. It will also give me some practice for doing tunes for my own games.

[I also see that the code looks different than the last one I downloaded and there's an explanation right in the code. I assumed the code was going to look similar. :dunce:]

Edited by Random Terrain, Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:46 PM.


#269 Rybags ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:40 PM

I've tried the Alt5 thru Alt7 files in Stella 1.12 and they just play a continuous note with nothing else.

What's wrong here?

#270 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:42 PM

I've tried the Alt5 thru Alt7 files in Stella 1.12 and they just play a continuous note with nothing else.

What's wrong here?

I assume you're not trying to load up the .bas, rather than the .bin? Otherwise I've no idea... :?

(Also, Stella 1.12 is a pretty old version, isn't it? Are you on an older Mac or something similar?)

Edited by thegoldenband, Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:47 PM.


#271 mos6507 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:48 PM

That's better. Now if you could get that "doo doo doodit doo" near the end of the loop to sound a little less off key, it would sound even better. Since you're posting the bas file, I could try to hunt down notes that are closer by hand with Tone Toy 2008, but I don't understand which numbers are the notes in your program. Where should I be looking?


It sounds in tune enough to me. The line is kind of chromatic anyway, so they are like passing notes. It works.

#272 Rybags ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:50 PM

Sorted... I didn't realize I was running such an ancient version, so updated to Stella 2.6.1

Well done on the music. I reckon if all this comes together, you won't exactly clone the original, but should be able to come pretty close.

#273 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 4, 2008 3:31 AM

I hunted and hunted with Tone Toy 2008, but couldn't find any better notes. I did edit the music data so it would sound a little better to my ears. Still sounds off to me, but I guess that's the best that can be done without spending weeks or months messing with it. To make it easier for me, I edited the bB code to match the volume, audio control, and frequency order that Tone Toy 2008 has, so the data is now v c f instead of f v c.

Here's the .bin file to use with your favorite emulator:
Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt_2008y_11m_04d_0426t.bin   4KB   305 downloads

Here's the .bas file if you want to look at the code:
Attached File  ballblazer_start_zylon_alt_2008y_11m_04d_0426t.bas   2.57KB   207 downloads

Edited by Random Terrain, Wed Nov 5, 2008 3:05 AM.


#274 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:32 PM

that is damn amazing.

#275 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:06 PM

Is this still being worked on? I'd like an update, please, this looks like the best homebrew graphics on the 2600 so far.




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