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#26 ten-four OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:25 PM

Hi TMOSteel... :)

Back in the 80's I tried some different joystiks, many of them also had 2 buttons,
but they were both connected to the same button both left and right.

So I had to modify some various joysticks for my self.
The best of them all was: Competition Pro 5000 from the former Euromax in UK.
Tested in ZAPP! 64 October 1985.

I too would like to see Roller Controller support, but the alternative is actually much better, if we can make it work: We can (and probably will) devise a small dongle-type adaptor that allows the player to use the Atari paddle controllers (or the paddle on the Coleco Gemini controller, same thing AFAIK) with Arkanoid on the ColecoVision.


Ok Pixelboy, and Ataripaddles may well still be bought, perhaps via ebay ?.
I'm waiting to buy Paddles until you an Opcode have decided which controllers it should be.

And if we do not buy paddles, the game is still played with the regular standard controllers. :)

#27 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:42 PM

Ok Pixelboy, and Ataripaddles may well still be bought, perhaps via ebay ?.

eBay is probably a good bet. There's also Atari2600.com.

I'm waiting to buy Paddles until you an Opcode have decided which controllers it should be.

That reminds me, there's also the Atari driving paddle we may want to support (I don't know if there's a big difference hardware-wise). Also, don't the Atari paddles have a jitter problem...?

And if we do not buy paddles, the game is still played with the regular standard controllers. :)

Definately. I'm hoping Eduardo will implement an accelerator pedal function for moving the Vaus (i.e. one side button for releasing the ball (in sticky mode) and firing lasers, and the other side button makes the Vaus move left and right twice as fast. I don't think the game will be really playable without this accelerator button, unless the ball itself is slowed down, which would make the game easier.

Say Eduardo, do you intend to implement different skill levels in Arkanoid (beginner/novice/arcade)?

#28 slydc OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:59 PM

Hi Pixelboy,

Me and Daniel Bienvenu tried to adapt the Atari Paddle and the Atari Driving Controller on the
Colecovision for Daniel's game: Double Breakout. And sad to say that the paddle or driving controller
doesn't have a "fast" response, both gives a very slow response when moving the paddle. We had to
spin either paddles so fast just to move 2-3 pixels (the paddle bar on screen in the game).

So after that, Daniel completely abandoned the paddle bit and went for the Driving Module, the Roller
Controller and the Spinner on the Super Action Controllers for moving the paddle bar in the game,
which either 3 works top notch!

if you want to port a smaller "paddle", try with an old PC mouse (with serial connector). that's what
i was going to do but never had the time to try it out.

And thanks for replying for the Adam 256K RAM schematic, i'll contact the person you mention
ASAP. :)

--- Sly DC ---

#29 STICH666 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:27 PM

Also, don't the Atari paddles have a jitter problem...?

Yeah big time to the point where it's almost unplayable but the Coleco Gemini controllers fixed that.

Edited by STICH666, Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:28 PM.


#30 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:40 PM

Hi Pixelboy,

Me and Daniel Bienvenu tried to adapt the Atari Paddle and the Atari Driving Controller on the Colecovision for Daniel's game: Double Breakout. And sad to say that the paddle or driving controller doesn't have a "fast" response, both gives a very slow response when moving the paddle. We had to spin either paddles so fast just to move 2-3 pixels (the paddle bar on screen in the game).

Interesting... Did you plug the paddles directly into the CV joystick ports, or did you devise an adaptor like we're proposing here?

So after that, Daniel completely abandoned the paddle bit and went for the Driving Module, the Roller Controller and the Spinner on the Super Action Controllers for moving the paddle bar in the game, which either 3 works top notch!

IIRC, you need to spin the Super Action spinner real fast to achieve the same movement as when the RC and steering wheel are used. :)

And thanks for replying for the Adam 256K RAM schematic, i'll contact the person you mention ASAP. :)

You're welcome. I wasn't sure you received my message...

#31 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:50 PM

I reached the point that I will need a sprite driver to proceed further with development. I am planning to start simple, and improve after the whole game is done. By then I should know how much free CPU time I still have. The arcade uses a CPU at almost twice the clock speed, so I need to be careful, even though the game doesn't look very CPU intensive.
So I will leave all the advanced flickering stuff for later on. I already know that the arcade game has just 16 sprites, 8x16. The CV has 32, 16x16, but they are single color, so I will need to combine 2 sprites per object, so all 32 sprites will be used.
I suspect it is a matter of a few weeks till I have something playable.

#32 STICH666 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:03 PM

I reached the point that I will need a sprite driver to proceed further with development. I am planning to start simple, and improve after the whole game is done. By then I should know how much free CPU time I still have. The arcade uses a CPU at almost twice the clock speed, so I need to be careful, even though the game doesn't look very CPU intensive.
So I will leave all the advanced flickering stuff for later on. I already know that the arcade game has just 16 sprites, 8x16. The CV has 32, 16x16, but they are single color, so I will need to combine 2 sprites per object, so all 32 sprites will be used.
I suspect it is a matter of a few weeks till I have something playable.

I can't imagine how low the framerate will drop when you get the division powerup. I mean if the CPU will have a hard time controlling one ball then how do you think it will do with 3 on the screen at once?

#33 128Kgames OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:24 PM

Hi TMOSteel... :)

Back in the 80's I tried some different joystiks, many of them also had 2 buttons,
but they were both connected to the same button both left and right.

So I had to modify some various joysticks for my self.
The best of them all was: Competition Pro 5000 from the former Euromax in UK.
Tested in ZAPP! 64 October 1985.

I too would like to see Roller Controller support, but the alternative is actually much better, if we can make it work: We can (and probably will) devise a small dongle-type adaptor that allows the player to use the Atari paddle controllers (or the paddle on the Coleco Gemini controller, same thing AFAIK) with Arkanoid on the ColecoVision.


Ok Pixelboy, and Ataripaddles may well still be bought, perhaps via ebay ?.
I'm waiting to buy Paddles until you an Opcode have decided which controllers it should be.

And if we do not buy paddles, the game is still played with the regular standard controllers. :)


ten-four-

Thanks for the joystick info, unfortunately for me my hands aren't what they used to be so modding a controller is probably out. Given that I will probably pick up one of the Atari joypads anyway and see what happens. Since the Coleco is compatible with the Atari joystick and others like it, I'm sure at least one button on the joypad will work. If I get two like I'm looking for, lucky me. I'll post back here with the results.

Oh, and if you or anybody else is looking for paddle controllers down the road, just look to Best Electronics for them and save yourself the eBay hassles:

http://www.best-elec.../quickguide.htm

#34 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:07 PM

I reached the point that I will need a sprite driver to proceed further with development. I am planning to start simple, and improve after the whole game is done. By then I should know how much free CPU time I still have. The arcade uses a CPU at almost twice the clock speed, so I need to be careful, even though the game doesn't look very CPU intensive.
So I will leave all the advanced flickering stuff for later on. I already know that the arcade game has just 16 sprites, 8x16. The CV has 32, 16x16, but they are single color, so I will need to combine 2 sprites per object, so all 32 sprites will be used.
I suspect it is a matter of a few weeks till I have something playable.

I can't imagine how low the framerate will drop when you get the division powerup. I mean if the CPU will have a hard time controlling one ball then how do you think it will do with 3 on the screen at once?


Usually an arcade game spend most of its CPU cycles waiting for the next frame interrupt, doing nothing, so a faster arcade CPU doesn't mean that the game will run slower on the CV. From what I have seen so far, Arkanoid doesn't look more complex than Pac-Man. In fact I believe Donkey Kong is fairly more complex than both, and it still has a sound CPU, a thing the other two don't have.

#35 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:38 PM

Say Eduardo, do you intend to implement different skill levels in Arkanoid (beginner/novice/arcade)?


The arcade game already has two difficulty levels, easy and hard. But ball speed is about the same on both. So I was thinking about beginner level or something like that, with the ball starting slower...

#36 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:19 PM

Say Eduardo, do you intend to implement different skill levels in Arkanoid (beginner/novice/arcade)?

The arcade game already has two difficulty levels, easy and hard. But ball speed is about the same on both. So I was thinking about beginner level or something like that, with the ball starting slower...

Actually, the hard part about Arkanoid is that the ball starts slow, and then after the ball breaks a few bricks, it suddently accelerates and that's when the game starts getting hectic. I think a beginner difficulty level should simply have a ball that never accelerates in mid-play. This would suffice and the rest of the game features do not need to be altered.

By the way, if you do an option screen (like you did for SIC and PMC), perhaps you should include a "test Vaus" at the bottom of the screen, for controller-testing purposes. That way you can immediately check whether the standard controller or the paddle controller is working properly. Just a suggestion. :)

#37 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:19 AM

Say Eduardo, do you intend to implement different skill levels in Arkanoid (beginner/novice/arcade)?

The arcade game already has two difficulty levels, easy and hard. But ball speed is about the same on both. So I was thinking about beginner level or something like that, with the ball starting slower...

Actually, the hard part about Arkanoid is that the ball starts slow, and then after the ball breaks a few bricks, it suddently accelerates and that's when the game starts getting hectic. I think a beginner difficulty level should simply have a ball that never accelerates in mid-play. This would suffice and the rest of the game features do not need to be altered.

By the way, if you do an option screen (like you did for SIC and PMC), perhaps you should include a "test Vaus" at the bottom of the screen, for controller-testing purposes. That way you can immediately check whether the standard controller or the paddle controller is working properly. Just a suggestion. :)


Arkanoid will require our standard title screen, with option screen for all arcade settings, also for selecting game version (USA, Japan or World). Paddle calibration would be a good idea too, since we would be dealing with analog stuff. Another possibility would be to include Tournament Arkanoid, since it's basically the same game with different stages, which is pretty trivial to implement (234 bytes of data per stage), and considering ROM space is not a problem nowaday...

#38 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:39 AM

Another possibility would be to include Tournament Arkanoid, since it's basically the same game with different stages, which is pretty trivial to implement (234 bytes of data per stage), and considering ROM space is not a problem nowaday...

Sshh! You're ruining the surprise for everybody! :P

Seriously, it's a great idea. Perhaps we could also design some levels of our own, and include them as an unlockable feature (we could call them the "Opcode Levels"). Like you said, there should be plenty of space on a 128K cart... :)

#39 darthkur OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:22 AM

This sounds great. Having a paddle game for the CV is something I never though would happen actually. So this should be quite fun.

#40 Spector OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:43 AM

OK, this is a little off topic I know, but since an Atari paddle was mentioned and it's compatibility came up I was wondering if anybody knows if the Atari CX78 Joypad works with a ColecoVision? These are the joypads that were packed with the 7800 overseas, I believe.

I'm hoping that 1) They are and 2) Both buttons function as if they were the left and right buttons on the Coleco controller. My current disability (I have bilateral carpal tunnel syndrome) makes using the stock Coleco controller a real pain (pun intended).


The Atari 7800 joypads do work with the Colecovision and the two buttons function just like the left and right buttons on the Coleco controller.

#41 yuppicide OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:31 PM

Looks fantastic!

#42 128Kgames OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:42 PM

OK, this is a little off topic I know, but since an Atari paddle was mentioned and it's compatibility came up I was wondering if anybody knows if the Atari CX78 Joypad works with a ColecoVision? These are the joypads that were packed with the 7800 overseas, I believe.

I'm hoping that 1) They are and 2) Both buttons function as if they were the left and right buttons on the Coleco controller. My current disability (I have bilateral carpal tunnel syndrome) makes using the stock Coleco controller a real pain (pun intended).


The Atari 7800 joypads do work with the Colecovision and the two buttons function just like the left and right buttons on the Coleco controller.


That is awesome news! I'll be ordering a set from Best Electronics on Monday. Thanks for the info!

#43 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:51 PM

The Atari 7800 joypads do work with the Colecovision and the two buttons function just like the left and right buttons on the Coleco controller.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I have some 7800 controllers sitting here and will have to try that out. :)

..Al

#44 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:52 PM

Update: I just posted a small video on Youtube:



Still not playable, but opening and sounds are already done. I believe this thing is really coming later this year. :)

#45 STICH666 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:48 PM

Update: I just posted a small video on Youtube:



Still not playable, but opening and sounds are already done. I believe this thing is really coming later this year. :)

Sounds a little high pitched. Is this because of the limited sound hardware? Also sign me up for a copy.

Edited by STICH666, Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:54 PM.


#46 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:05 PM

Update: I just posted a small video on Youtube:



Still not playable, but opening and sounds are already done. I believe this thing is really coming later this year. :)

Sounds a little high pitched. Is this because of the limited sound hardware? Also sign me up for a copy.


Actually I am aware that sound is around 20% above the correct pitch. That's something I need to fix. I also need to come with some way to simulate the pulsing red Arkanoid ship. But so far so good, I am satisfied with the results... :)

#47 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:18 PM

Actually I am aware that sound is around 20% above the correct pitch. That's something I need to fix. I also need to come with some way to simulate the pulsing red Arkanoid ship. But so far so good, I am satisfied with the results... :)

I love the intro! Excellent work so far, Eduardo! :D

I'm a bit puzzled though... Weren't you supposed to use the MSX sound chip in the Opgrade Module for the sound output? You told me yourself it was extremely simple to do, much easier than adapting the arcade sound data to the CV sound chip.

#48 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:26 PM

It looks and sounds amazing to me so far. Great job as always!

#49 STICH666 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:39 PM

Update: I just posted a small video on Youtube:



Still not playable, but opening and sounds are already done. I believe this thing is really coming later this year. :)

Sounds a little high pitched. Is this because of the limited sound hardware? Also sign me up for a copy.


Actually I am aware that sound is around 20% above the correct pitch. That's something I need to fix. I also need to come with some way to simulate the pulsing red Arkanoid ship. But so far so good, I am satisfied with the results... :)

For the glowing, just take the blue into photoshop and increase the red on a shade of blue until you like the result then try to find the closest match with the Colecovision's palette.

#50 ten-four OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:39 AM

Very nice work as usual Eduardo... :)

Tournament Arkanoid... :D




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