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I was never a fan of PONG, always perfered the Coleco Telstar Color.


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#1 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 7, 2009 12:14 PM

I was never a big fan of Pong back in the day, I always though that the Coleco Telstar Color was better as it offered PONG and squash (and I belive another game, memory is a bit rusty) in color, so I thought that PONG was much inferior in terms of gameplay and graphics.

#2 ComputerSpaceFan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 7, 2009 2:00 PM

Is that really a fair comparison though? Telstar came out four years after Pong, clearly it would be improved. I think Pong was an improvement over the tennis game on Ralph Baer's Brown Box that came out before it and I think Ralph's game was an improvement over Willy Higgenbotham's Tennis for Two game that came out years before that.

It's all progress.

#3 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 8, 2009 4:29 AM

Whell Contrary to common belife I read that Atari Licenced Pong from Ralf's company or I dont know but it clearly said Atari Licenced Pong for use in arcade witch was again contray to normal belife when i was a kid the pong unit and the arcade pong Atari machines were both in market at exact time. but the arcade pong unit clearly was a varient of ralfs 1st pong in video showing the for way controls he invertanly designed a analog up down left right joystick with out even knowing it could be hooked to a joystick just think they could have had a joystick for some other use but he had left right and up down on a TV 1st that was cool remember with lcd you could make monsters look exaclty like a sprite and you wouldnt beable to tell cause you could send a lie to the memmory sticks in the lcd to make sprites look exaclty like a blinking atari 2600 sprite but it could be a fake sprite that does nothing.
but he ralf designed the 1st video game circut from scratch go online and look at his schmatics whooly crap he did those video schmatics w pencil !! just sitting around a lounge talking to someone about his invention.. thank god he decided to make all those board games interactive w the 1st magnavox oddessy even if there worth more as collector items than to play the idea of more than just pong made the oddyssy 1 cool I think he knew it was going to be a collectors item once more elabroate graphics came out so they made the oddyssey 2 witch was pretty ok and had masked roms in eeprom proms witch ment cart based games I wonder what extra chip games the oddysey 1 had that didnt just short pins weather it had a serial data out data in line 5v and gnd to run a chip if needed and if certian pins werent shorted what did if it did did it look for and could you write a oddyssy1 cart if you knew how...
mostly i think the overlays were made for the built in games and the built in games must have been just like mazes or board games where you move squares around I had one but think i sold it I should have hooked it up 1st! mabie its still in the storage im my parents house mabie we should clean it out to vacume and take inventory.. I bet i find it that would be awesome..

#4 ComputerSpaceFan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 8, 2009 12:33 PM

Ummmm well said? :?

Anyway, I would direct you to the Pong Museum discussion, he has all you ever want to know about Pong.
http://www.atariage....howtopic=138162

#5 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 8, 2009 11:52 PM

Whell Contrary to common belife I read that Atari Licenced Pong from Ralf's company or I dont know but it clearly said Atari Licenced Pong for use in arcade witch was again contray to normal belife


Close.....They released PONG, then were informed several years later it violated several patents and rather than go through a trial trying to invalidate said patents they decided to take out a license.


when i was a kid the pong unit and the arcade pong Atari machines were both in market at exact time.


Arcade PONG was 1972. The home PONG was 1975.

#6 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 8, 2009 11:58 PM

Is that really a fair comparison though? Telstar came out four years after Pong, clearly it would be improved. I think Pong was an improvement over the tennis game on Ralph Baer's Brown Box that came out before it and I think Ralph's game was an improvement over Willy Higgenbotham's Tennis for Two game that came out years before that.

It's all progress.



The problem with that line of thought is that unlike the Brown Box to Pong, there is no direct correlation between Higinbotham and the Brown Box. There was no evolution or "progress", one was not based off the other - i.e. the Brown Box was not based off of Higinbotham's work. Higinbotham's display was an isolated little seen demo that would have remained completely unknown if it hadn't been brought up in the late 70's in an attempt to invalidate Ralph's patents. It was summarily dismissed as a previous work, most importantly because the former used video technology, Willy's did not. Secondly, because there was no actual graphical interaction with displayed objects, which technology wise was also done in the Brown Box and later systems.

#7 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 9, 2009 7:47 AM

I've always wondered something here... What is the diffrence between Home Pong and Super Pong? Because the graphics is identical, does Super Pong have squash bulid in or something like that? Just cos, I've played Home Pong, but not Super Pong.

#8 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 9, 2009 3:40 PM

I've always wondered something here... What is the diffrence between Home Pong and Super Pong? Because the graphics is identical, does Super Pong have squash bulid in or something like that? Just cos, I've played Home Pong, but not Super Pong.

The super pong i have has a 4 way switch it lets you choose long bars w holes where the paddle goes
so its a inverted paddle you let ball not go threw hole like squash then the other ones make two paddles
or normal pong I want to install a english asjustment pot but two players would fight over it!!!!!!! it puts english on the ball I also need a cheat button for the 25 slot cause i put it in a cabinet and replaced th e Target CUBE furnitaure box w plexiglass and a orange BALL zenith monitor then put quarter slot in back I have pics here elsewhere.. so i think super pong has the 4 way selector switch for 4 more games the original pong could do that but you would have to wire the switch and probably need a super pong to see how they wired the switch ! further more you would need a double pole quadriple throw slide switch.. its easyer to find a super pong off ebay than to try to retrofit one!! anyways i think thats the only differnce also I think the original pong might not have a color burst crystal?? i never tried one does anyone know weather non super pong has a color burst crystal does it come out in rainbow on tv ???? let me know if anyone has a old pong not super pong..

#9 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 10, 2009 3:45 AM

So I take it Super Pong is the same game, but with more features, not like the Coleco Telstar which is something diffrent intierly.

#10 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 10, 2009 2:52 PM

So I take it Super Pong is the same game, but with more features, not like the Coleco Telstar which is something diffrent intierly.



The Coleco Telstar is not something "different entirely". It simply used the widely used GY-8500 chip. Atari's and Magnavox's home pong units also evolved to have more than one game. Likewise, they're all called "Pong units" for a reason.

Edited by wgungfu, Sun May 10, 2009 2:52 PM.


#11 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 11, 2009 12:01 PM

Ok, I guess you gotta appreciate that in '75, people did'ent have much choice.

#12 ComputerSpaceFan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 11, 2009 6:11 PM

And just to bring the whole Ralph Baer thing into the light again, I found this article good fun. Ralph playing Bit Trip Beat on the Wii...

http://www.offworld....reator-bae.html

#13 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 11, 2009 11:59 PM

So I take it Super Pong is the same game, but with more features, not like the Coleco Telstar which is something diffrent intierly.



The Coleco Telstar is not something "different entirely". It simply used the widely used GY-8500 chip. Atari's and Magnavox's home pong units also evolved to have more than one game. Likewise, they're all called "Pong units" for a reason.

hmm that made me run to my room and grab my $44.50 Modern Electronic circuts reference manual
its a book that probably now costs $99 or more
ISBN#-07-040446-1 ITS A COOL BOOK I SOMEHOW CONVINCED MY DAD TO LET ME KEEP.
its cool it has over 1200 pages of cool circut schmatics and I always rememberd the VIDEO game section in the games section the 1st circut in the game section is a add on to the GI's
general instruments AY-3-8500-1 tv GAME CIRCUT!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS THE schmatic to make a gun interface!!!
for shooting games.. these used a photocell transistor I guess the case was gnd so like when the street lights think its dark cause they SEE dark and the resistance changes the photo cell also can be used to set the tint hue on the big screen anyway I was like HMM that chipset looks almost the same i wonder if general instraments made the chips for Magnavox as whell as selling the ay chip for educational kits!! anyway I remember ripping a lot of pong like units apart i got from good will and they almost alyways were based on the same chips I know that the original atari pong was b/w and didnt have a selector switch to select games. I bet you could even add a gun circut to a magnavox unit if you added the selection to the chip'
on page 435 is the gun circut on p 437 is a nother schmatic using a GI 8500-1 chip they say nothing about ay or even gy just 8500 on this circut its a 28 pin chip
pin 25 =reset 23 shorted to gnd=practice 22=squash 21=soccer and 20=PONG pin 7 to ground =slow and open =fast
pin 8 to gnd =auto serve and open =manual serve
pin 5 open =rebound and gnded must be auto serve so i think you unhook to serve then leave shorted mostly I would have to auctually build circut to see. brb going to digikey to see if they have any 8500 chips!!!!!!!! nope but holly crap look
http://www.ic2ic.com...r...00&prefix=A
they actually still exist as a part number for SALE!!!! cool huh.
also on page 438 there are more shcmatics there is a ch2 ch3 rf mod schmatic looks like ralf bears own schamtic he probably inventet the rf modulator the schamtic on page 438 actually states to use a
AY-3-8500-1 chip again GI's chip this one has 6 games damn I should buy stock in GI they made pacman chips pong chips aparently all varients!!!!!! and they made general instraments jerrold cable box descrambler chips and the infamus sattalite video chypher descrambler chips too wow there the company to invest in ...
also on page 439 there is a national semiconductor pong hockey squash chip too its
mm57100n and mm53104n LM1889N modulator and a SL00216 15v regulator also it has a vegistal sideband filter??? on p 440 is a explanation of the lm1889N national's video mod chip.
a nother chip pn page 441 shows a national 5841 ic ofr display of score on video game and for channel and time display hmm this chip might be worth futzing with I would need a zenith chomp cable box cause it wants horizontal and vartical inputs on pin 19 and 18
from ''cmos cookbook''
the pong on page 437 8500 the 8500-1 no ay just plain 8500-1 is from
again c-mos cookbook p166
Howard W Sams Indianpolis IN 1977
the rifile circut on p 435 is taken from
S. Circia, Hey Look What My Daddy Built!,73 Magazine Oct 1976 P104-108
boy i want that magazine! 73 magazine is a cool ham radio magazine.. now on the 15 when i goto the Hamvention ill look for oct 1976 73 magazine!! the gun interface is for the ay-3-8500 chip..

wow wow wow all this talk about chipsets got me exited! I ran to my arcade board shelf and looked at birdie king II board same as Bking 1 and 2 and 3 and viola guess what the sound chips are
GI
they say
SOUND
AY-3-8910
thats defanantly a GI chip but these say TAIWAN on them ..
also i didnt know sharp made z80 i mean Z80a chips no im going to rip apart the pong to see 1st if its gold plated white nuke proof cermaic and to see the Atari # on the chip or if its a GI chip I think its a atari chip but when im in there im looking for a english ''angle pin!!!''' this goes to a pot to gnd and puts english on the ball I had this but when i wired the 2nd super pong inside the cabinet i forgot about that I also need to wire a 25 circumvent button. as i have no coin door and have to open it every time i want to empty it.. anyway I am glad you told me about the chip number

so if you want a picture of the schmatic for the gun circut i can send you a digital picture of that page from the book as whell as the schmatic for youre video game!!! oh shit before i forget pin 13 shorted makes the bat size bigger open makes it small I dont know if youre game has these features but you are welcome to add wires switches and pots to youre game to make it more fun plus if it dont have a practice mode add jumper to pin 23 to gnd and practice mode on i bet it just makes a paddle the size of a whall length !!! blocking all ball servs back to you the gun circut hooks to pins 23 and pin 24 I have no idea how to initate gun game but since pin 23 inintates practice i assume you can obtain points by the guns pulse output anyway i want to make whole thing now since i have zenith cable box rf mods w sound inputs i wouldnt need the amplified speaker just input to yellow wire and video to purple and 12v on orange and gnd and viola rf mod free suposing you get zenith box free the last one i got was only $4 at good will a good price for a zenith cable box for parts rf mods run like $19 new and these zenith ones are great they usually have a rf gain pot so if you wanted you could invert signal ....
i will repost once i look at pong if i can get those weird screws open!.
again thanks for sharing the chip numbers that made me happy to actually see a working unit based off a circut i thought was only for kits .... I didnt know Magnavox must have made deal w GI Mabie i could use my fake famicom's 8bit nintendo GUN to use for a project gun case for that gun circut.
******************************************************************************
**************COOL check this out****************
remember to patch adobe 1st DOnt get a virus from adobe security hole************
any way look
http://www.datasheet...p?q=AY-3-8500-1
http://www.datasheet.../Book241-62.pdf
Looking at the pdf pins 18 and 19 pin 18 rifle game1
pin 19 rifle game 2
hmm Ill have to send you pics for the rifle game schmatic..
if you want me to make you a rifle circut I can .
this schmatic says Tennis
Further more acording to this pdf the
General Instrument AY-3-8500 A-Y-3-8500-1
so the ay-3-8500 is the 8500 one1!! the 8500 one has 625 lines and the -1 one has 525 lines
thats why the magnavox has the 8500 w out the -1 cause its pal and pal has more lines..
here is a schmatic I will post picture of gun circut so you can add switch to pin 18 and 19 to gnd so a 3 way switch needed postistion 1 gun mode off postistion pin 18 short gun game 1 switch pos 3 pin 19 short gun game2 I am really glad i looked up info now..

Edited by awace, Tue May 12, 2009 12:51 AM.


#14 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 12, 2009 12:04 AM

And just to bring the whole Ralph Baer thing into the light again, I found this article good fun. Ralph playing Bit Trip Beat on the Wii...

http://www.offworld....reator-bae.html

cool thank you.
I think i might have found a source for ay 3-8500 chips now i want one even more now
I know what im going to look for at the hamvention im going to email mendalsons and ask them if they have any gi 8500 chips!

#15 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 12, 2009 12:49 PM

Here is a picture of the inside of the Atari SUPER PONG the two pins not connected by the speaker are actually labled SPEED I think this is the english pot connector!!!
also i have uploaded a picture of the schmatics from the BIG book i have
these pictures of the schmatics are REally hard to take!!!
ok now im happy i took a picture of the pdf in 800x600 @ 140Hz !!!!!!!!!!! i didnt think my sgi $179 computer monitor even went 140Hz but it does and it makes a big differnce in taking pictures.
the /|\ pong super pong has a ami chip not the infamus $$$ gold one arrg anyway im still happy i found the speed jumpers now i can add a pot to my other cabinet a $19 box stackable w out door i made into a pong game using a orange composite zenith monitor ..
it might be confusing but the 8500 vs the 8500-1 means more scanlines.
check this too
http://www.atariage....s...659&hl=pong
thats my 1st attempt at a arcade game no coin door so i have to unscrew the plexiglass to get to coins witch fall into a cereal box the mini ones you can cut open and eat out of ..
now i need to add that speed potentiometer POT paddle for english and a free play button cause after you put 25 in youre broke ..anyway check out the pics and if anyone wants me to make a light gun repost a reply..
how could i forget the picture of the master clock circut somone would be mad if they were missing a schmatic nessary to run game . also you could take a RF mod from a zenith box purple is video yellow is sound orange 12v+ and black gnd common... remember game might not take 12v so use a car lighter selectormaic power adaptor just remove circut board select voltage needed and solder to 12v input on car adaptor then hook rf mod to 12v in on car adaptor this way you can run rf mod on 12v and use a 12v power adaptor to run kit..
sounds like the gun circut would be fun to make ...

Attached Thumbnails

  • GOODdescrip.jpg
  • good_a_y_8500_1.jpg
  • IMG_2346.JPG
  • rifledescr.jpg
  • riflesch.jpg
  • partialdesca_y_3_8500_1_desc.jpg
  • GIPINOUTS.jpg
  • masterclock.jpg

Edited by awace, Tue May 12, 2009 12:54 PM.


#16 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 12, 2009 1:01 PM

onto the hamvention to look for VINTAGE PONG UNITS any varient and 73 magazine 1976 june. and any Atari ® porduct no matter what even if its a ET cart I need shells...
im hoping to find a USB eeprom burner so i can check checksums and see what i sent plus mabie i could convert miss packman + big roms to the normal size ms pacman. not to be confused with the MR. and MRS packman pinball game where theywere actually married by that point .. and the JR pacman vidiot board for the pinball/video game.. I see why its labled the vidiot board so you could not confuse it with the pinball control mother board..
yeah..
I didnt think atari used AMI c-mos chip company for there pong games..
but I know GI is canadian so thats why there proably lots of pal/525 versions of pong..
the good thing is I had one of those magnavox pong units before i gave it back to GW as donation to boring didnt know i could add gun unit at time but it didnt roll like asteroids deluxe flashback II verison..

#17 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 13, 2009 9:55 AM

Cheers for all the info, I've always wondered what the diffence is between Home Pong and Super Pong.

#18 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 13, 2009 12:47 PM

Cheers for all the info, I've always wondered what the diffence is between Home Pong and Super Pong.

I still dont know weather original Atari pong was b/w or had a color crystal .

#19 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 13, 2009 2:20 PM

Cheers for all the info, I've always wondered what the diffence is between Home Pong and Super Pong.

I still dont know weather original Atari pong was b/w or had a color crystal .



Which "original" Atari pong? The arcade or the home? Arcade is b&w, the home is color.

#20 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 14, 2009 9:26 AM

I'm on about Home Pong, and I dunno about you, but the version I've played is B&W, the Home Pong I own was the first model, releaced in 1975.

#21 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 14, 2009 12:28 PM

I'm on about Home Pong, and I dunno about you, but the version I've played is B&W, the Home Pong I own was the first model, releaced in 1975.



Yes, the Sears Tele-games model which was OEM'd by Atari. That's a color console. Maybe you just happened to play it on a b&w tv.

#22 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 14, 2009 7:04 PM

I'm on about Home Pong, and I dunno about you, but the version I've played is B&W, the Home Pong I own was the first model, releaced in 1975.



Yes, the Sears Tele-games model which was OEM'd by Atari. That's a color console. Maybe you just happened to play it on a b&w tv.

whell i thought that original pong not super pong sears or not i thought that super pong had the 4 game selector switch
and original Atari pong and super pong has a color bursting crystal it dOES NOT DO COLOR JUST MAKES IT RAINBOW COLORED!!! NOT A BIG DEAL . thats why i used the orange monitor look here
http://www.atariage....s...659&hl=pong
I still think its cool were still talking about pong in witch we shouuld be talking about pong256k

#23 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 14, 2009 7:04 PM

I'm on about Home Pong, and I dunno about you, but the version I've played is B&W, the Home Pong I own was the first model, releaced in 1975.



Yes, the Sears Tele-games model which was OEM'd by Atari. That's a color console. Maybe you just happened to play it on a b&w tv.

whell i thought that original pong not super pong sears or not i thought that super pong had the 4 game selector switch
and original Atari pong and super pong has a color bursting crystal it dOES NOT DO COLOR JUST MAKES IT RAINBOW COLORED!!! NOT A BIG DEAL . thats why i used the orange monitor look here
http://www.atariage....s...659&hl=pong
I still think its cool were still talking about pong in witch we shouuld be talking about pong256k

#24 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2009 1:27 AM

Yes, the Sears Tele-games model which was OEM'd by Atari. That's a color console. Maybe you just happened to play it on a b&w tv.

whell i thought that original pong not super pong sears or not i thought that super pong had the 4 game selector switch
and original Atari pong and super pong has a color bursting crystal it dOES NOT DO COLOR JUST MAKES IT RAINBOW COLORED!!! NOT A BIG DEAL . thats why i used the orange monitor look here
http://www.atariage....s...659&hl=pong
I still think its cool were still talking about pong in witch we shouuld be talking about pong256k



Posted Image
Arcade pong (b&w)


Posted Image
home pong (color) - special thanks to David Winter, this is from his site.

Edited by wgungfu, Fri May 15, 2009 1:33 AM.


#25 mcjakeqcool OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2009 9:43 AM

Gonna have to dig PONG out and play it on my 32 inch color TV, that screenshot is a vast improvement to the PONG I remember. Lol!




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