ST was a nice computer!

[mcjakeqcool]

I thought the ST was a neat system, a very nice computer indeed. It had loads (lots anyhow) of programs on, so it was a great computer, and, it had the best liabary of games since the 2600, if the games on the 5200 and 7800 were anywhere near as good as the ST's I think they would have been more sucsessful. Let me know what you think!

[anzac]

i just think that the ST will be forever bonded to my childhood/adolescence and i would like to think that i am a better person today because of that...

[danwinslow]

It was a bit hastily thrown together from a design standpoint, but it was certainly capable and really a great buy at the time. Plus, it ran Dungeon Master, from which all gaming goodness springs. Imo.

[+DarkLord]

It was a bit hastily thrown together from a design standpoint, but it was certainly capable and really a great buy at the time. Plus, it ran Dungeon Master, from which all gaming goodness springs. Imo.

 

That truly was a great deal, no doubt about it friend.

 

Ah Dungeon Master - certainly seems like we can't have a discussion about games

without that title coming up, and deservedly so!

 

I can remember my Dad knocking on my door one morning as he went to work (4am).

He thought I'd left the light on all night. Nope, I had been playing DM all night. DId that

for weeks after I first got it.

[mrnukem]

I still use my Mega ST 2 and SH205 HD for games all the time. I have a nice desktop shelving unit with a few old systems on my desk right here and the Mega ST 2 is one of them. I have even managed to use it via a null modem cable, terminal program and software on my PC to bridge my serial port out the internet to play online telnet accessible MUD's

 

One nice thing is you can write disk images out to 3.5" disks and use them on the ST with very little problem at all.

[Bill Loguidice]

I thought the ST was a neat system, a very nice computer indeed. It had loads (lots anyhow) of programs on, so it was a great computer, and, it had the best liabary of games since the 2600, if the games on the 5200 and 7800 were anywhere near as good as the ST's I think they would have been more sucsessful. Let me know what you think!

 

 

The main issue was if it was JUST the ST line versus Macs and PCs, it would have done better, but there was little system line called the Amiga that stole a lot of its thunder. Ultimately, though, as history has shown, it really didn't matter what your system was or did, the PC DOS/Windows line would have still ended up on top.

[danwinslow]

Yes, due to business interest rather than gaming power, unfortunately.

[Bill Loguidice]

Yes, due to business interest rather than gaming power, unfortunately.

 

That was ultimately the key. While the ST/Amiga tried to go from home to business, the better longer term solution proved to be going from business to home. Eventually the PC side caught up sufficiently in multimedia capabilities to make the professional software disadvantages of the ST/Amiga insurmountable.

[simonsunnyboy]

But it took years for the PCs to cath up. And while they did, the ST was very successful as a small business machine. At least here in Germany and other European countries...don't forget that Germany was Atari's most profitable section around 1990/91

 

And the ST didn't sell as a games machine here, people bought it with SM124 and as a capable business and professional solution with a lot of good software for a very reasonable price. Actually as the cheaper Mac in many cases

Edited May 8, 2009 by simonsunnyboy

[Bill Loguidice]

But it took years for the PCs to cath up. And while they did, the ST was very successful as a small business machine. At least here in Germany and other European countries...don't forget that Germany was Atari's most profitable section around 1990/91

 

And the ST didn't sell as a games machine here, people bought it with SM124 and as a capable business and professional solution with a lot of good software for a very reasonable price. Actually as the cheaper Mac in many cases

 

I believe it was ultimately the North American market that determined what happened in the computer "wars", though. We got off the low cost mantra much quicker (standardizing on disks versus cassettes years earlier than Europe, for instance, then hard drives versus disks, etc.) and the Amiga and Atari ST series, particularly the latter, were rarely used professionally outside of their niches, which for the former was video production and the latter professional audio. The Mac was desktop publishing centric and the PC pretty much sealed the deal in regards to professional software, a la spreadsheets, databases and word processing. So in those regards, the Mac and PC specialized in more wide reaching "practical" specialities. Also, the Amiga and ST, again, moreso the latter, were never as popular here as they were in Europe.

[+remowilliams]

It was a bit hastily thrown together from a design standpoint, but it was certainly capable and really a great buy at the time.

Indeed. The ST certainly is a bit more off the shelf than I would really have cared for, but at the time it was a great deal for the power and it let me join the 16bit era. Without it, I would have been left staring at Amigas that I never would have been able to afford.

[mcjakeqcool]

The Atari ST is the only pre Jag console that Atari made, that could really compare to the Jag, I mean Cybermorph was unlike anything Atari had ever made on consoles, but the ST had Starglider 1&2 Hard Drivin' and Alpha Waves, all primative 3d games long before Cybermorph, I guess there was always the arcade game I-Robot.

[Christos]

The Atari ST is the only pre Jag console that Atari made, that could really compare to the Jag, I mean Cybermorph was unlike anything Atari had ever made on consoles, but the ST had Starglider 1&2 Hard Drivin' and Alpha Waves, all primative 3d games long before Cybermorph, I guess there was always the arcade game I-Robot.

 

 

The atari ST != a console. Also it can't really be compared to the jaguar. Unless you mean in game quality where the reverse is true.

[Curt Vendel]

Correct...

 

Without any trying or marketing, PC's had in immediate selling effect, in that, the people who used them at work, did not want a watered down computer at home or a computer that was somewhat compatible... if they were to use it at work with Wordperfect, Lotus 1-2-3, Havard Graphics, etc... then they wanted those same applications at home. Companies soon started to make purchasing, as a matter of business to buy certain employee's both an in-office system and would have another shipped to their homes.

 

Add to this, the fact that the PC's were empty boxes, just waiting for whatever configuration would be created for them by means of expansion card, this gave them even more power and capability... Atari thought that given people a box with as many ports as possible would be the right way to go, people have always liked the ability to expand their systems, even the Amiga 1000 had an initial expansion bus on the side, then the 2000 had full slots in it. ASCI was a great idea on the ST's, it was plug and play SCSI - no switch settings for Host, and Bus IDs... this was never fully marketed and explained, so all people thought was the opposite - its watered down SCSI... Atari would've been better to had adhered to standards and went with full SCSI instead.

 

Bill is totally right though, no matter what the Atari's and Amiga's did, the PC's were going to win the battle, not with power or graphics, but just with the sheer fact - people want at home, what they have at work.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

Yes, due to business interest rather than gaming power, unfortunately.

 

That was ultimately the key. While the ST/Amiga tried to go from home to business, the better longer term solution proved to be going from business to home. Eventually the PC side caught up sufficiently in multimedia capabilities to make the professional software disadvantages of the ST/Amiga insurmountable.

[+DarkLord]

The main issue was if it was JUST the ST line versus Macs and PCs, it would have done better, but there was little system line called the Amiga that stole a lot of its thunder. Ultimately, though, as history has shown, it really didn't matter what your system was or did, the PC DOS/Windows line would have still ended up on top.

 

At $1500.00 for a base A1000 unit, the Amiga and its "thunder" would never have sat on a shelf of mine.

 

The Atari ST was affordable enough even for this poor white boy.

 

But I do agree with what you said about who ended up on top. The Tramiels would have had to

have done things quite a bit differently to have stayed in contention over time...

[Bill Loguidice]

At $1500.00 for a base A1000 unit, the Amiga and its "thunder" would never have sat on a shelf of mine.

 

The Atari ST was affordable enough even for this poor white boy.

 

 

Certainly the ST was a better initial value, but once Commodore got the 2000 and 500 out there to replace the 1000, the picture changed dramatically. It was actually smart on Commodore's part to have a slot card friendly expandable high end system and a more closed low end system. The ST line never really got the former. Ultimately, I think the two monitor thing kind of hurt the ST as well. You factor that in and the Amiga's better game capabilities (graphics/sound) and it's pretty clear why once the 500/2000 hit the momentum was all Commodore's.

[TwiliteZoner]

At $1500.00 for a base A1000 unit, the Amiga and its "thunder" would never have sat on a shelf of mine.

 

The Atari ST was affordable enough even for this poor white boy.

 

 

Certainly the ST was a better initial value, but once Commodore got the 2000 and 500 out there to replace the 1000, the picture changed dramatically. It was actually smart on Commodore's part to have a slot card friendly expandable high end system and a more closed low end system. The ST line never really got the former. Ultimately, I think the two monitor thing kind of hurt the ST as well. You factor that in and the Amiga's better game capabilities (graphics/sound) and it's pretty clear why once the 500/2000 hit the momentum was all Commodore's.

 

Ironically the downfall of both companies is basically the same story. Too bad Atari didn't have enough cash of their own to buy Commodore.

Edited May 9, 2009 by TwiliteZoner

[atarian63]

But it took years for the PCs to cath up. And while they did, the ST was very successful as a small business machine. At least here in Germany and other European countries...don't forget that Germany was Atari's most profitable section around 1990/91

 

And the ST didn't sell as a games machine here, people bought it with SM124 and as a capable business and professional solution with a lot of good software for a very reasonable price. Actually as the cheaper Mac in many cases

 

I believe it was ultimately the North American market that determined what happened in the computer "wars", though. We got off the low cost mantra much quicker (standardizing on disks versus cassettes years earlier than Europe, for instance, then hard drives versus disks, etc.) and the Amiga and Atari ST series, particularly the latter, were rarely used professionally outside of their niches, which for the former was video production and the latter professional audio. The Mac was desktop publishing centric and the PC pretty much sealed the deal in regards to professional software, a la spreadsheets, databases and word processing. So in those regards, the Mac and PC specialized in more wide reaching "practical" specialities. Also, the Amiga and ST, again, moreso the latter, were never as popular here as they were in Europe.

We did better with ST in sales than the Amiga, though Amiga got closer late in the A500 days.

[atarian63]

At $1500.00 for a base A1000 unit, the Amiga and its "thunder" would never have sat on a shelf of mine.

 

The Atari ST was affordable enough even for this poor white boy.

 

 

Certainly the ST was a better initial value, but once Commodore got the 2000 and 500 out there to replace the 1000, the picture changed dramatically. It was actually smart on Commodore's part to have a slot card friendly expandable high end system and a more closed low end system. The ST line never really got the former. Ultimately, I think the two monitor thing kind of hurt the ST as well. You factor that in and the Amiga's better game capabilities (graphics/sound) and it's pretty clear why once the 500/2000 hit the momentum was all Commodore's.

Was not our experience. Amiga did better then but the 2000 was way too expensive.The amiga never caught up for us. The main problem for us was getting ST's,STE etc. Most supply was going to europe. Also the Hi res mono was quite an advantage, better than Amiga and had a nice big mono screen for Mac emulation.

Edited May 9, 2009 by atarian63

[techie_alison]

My ST in the 80's was brilliant. It was a 520STFM and had a single sided drive. The first games were Star Wars, Star Trek, and Tai Pan. All of which I've managed to collect in mint condition. I used to go to the computer shows at Wembley and Alexandra Palace with my Dad. We came back on one occasion with an external DSDD drive, about 100 blank floppies (of which only about 50 worked), oh and about 1/2 dozen empty IBM XT cases. They were certainly the days.

 

One of the earliest hacks I did was to make the DSDD drive externally bootable, which I think was by cutting a couple of tracks to the sound chip and swapping them over. We also had an external 5 1/4" drive for it too, and used to run PC-Ditto (God knows why).

 

The swapping of copied games at school was rife, that and the Automation disks that used to go about. I had a little 14" Philips RGB SCART television for it.

 

Those were the days where you used to be impressed with the VT52 emulator and hooking it up to a PC (CTTY COM1) and getting a DIR on your ST screen.

 

Cover Disks were also important, as were the monthly magazines. Before I even had an ST I used to buy ST World (an American mag I think) and read that. I've still got them at home. A multiface-ST (blue one) was bought in a junk shop somewhere at a bargain price.

 

This was the TV advert that was being shown at the time. It was Christmas I think, maybe 1987.

. I didn't have the Discovery Pack though. It was the advert before that, I think the one where there were all the people in a dark room with numbers on their heads or something, and the screen smashed.

 

A friend and I used to play Bubble Bobble for hours upon hours on end. We had Competition Pro 5000 Clear joysticks. Elite was another one that was just fantastic.

 

When I grew up there was Centipede and Pole Position II in Sports Centres and stuff. I used to hire an Atari 2600 from the local video tape store, for something like £3 for a Saturday and Sunday. Bloody loved that!!

 

We also had a BetaMax C7.

 

Wonderful memories of the 80s.

[mcjakeqcool]

The Atari ST had some of the best games made on any Atari console prior to the Jaguar, it was far superior to the Atari 7800 or the Atari 8 bit family, shame it was discounied, it could have kept Atari afloat.

[nathanallan]

It's my favorite computer to do a lot of thingsd on. I have four different ones and they are the greatest. I still need to learn how to program it, though. Pretty neat, I use it to term over to things that need terming over to (as in terminal). A few years back, I got a brand new Terminal Emulator cart from Best and haven't been let down by it yet.

 

Nathan

[mcjakeqcool]

The Atari ST had some of the best post 2600 pre Jaguar games on it. But it was never really a competitor to the Nintendo or Sega,as being a next gen PC,I guess it was in a diffent league. Correct?

[Christos]

The Atari ST had some of the best post 2600 pre Jaguar games on it. But it was never really a competitor to the Nintendo or Sega,as being a next gen PC,I guess it was in a diffent league. Correct?

 

No everything you wrote is completely wrong. Look at the thread title.

[nathanallan]

Not completely wrong. It was a computer and not a competitor to Nin or Sega. So he's right there. It did have some pretty cool games on it, too.

 

Pretty sure he's aware of the thread title, being that he started it and all