70's development tools

[Carpenter]

Does anyone know what tools Atari programmers had on their desks to write games back in those 2600 days? What computers and assemblers (maybe in-house emulators) were used? What sort of equipment there were in Atari labs - scopes, multimeters, logic analyzers? How software and hardware debugging were performed?

 

Just wondering

[Wickeycolumbus]

I have a book that shows some 2600 development hardware from the early 80s that I have been meaning to scan/post. I will try to get around to it tomorrow

[kskunk]

Does anyone know what tools Atari programmers had on their desks to write games back in those 2600 days? What computers and assemblers (maybe in-house emulators) were used? What sort of equipment there were in Atari labs - scopes, multimeters, logic analyzers? How software and hardware debugging were performed?

 

Just wondering

 

Have you happened across Jed Margolin's stories? He's a great writer and he includes lots of gratuitous detail:

http://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/vmail.htm

 

He describes the PDP-11 based assembler, binaries stored on paper tape, and home made ROM emulators. He also describes how the technology improved over time. Very fun read, along with everything on his site!

 

- KS

[Carpenter]

Does anyone know what tools Atari programmers had on their desks to write games back in those 2600 days? What computers and assemblers (maybe in-house emulators) were used? What sort of equipment there were in Atari labs - scopes, multimeters, logic analyzers? How software and hardware debugging were performed?

 

Just wondering

 

Have you happened across Jed Margolin's stories? He's a great writer and he includes lots of gratuitous detail:

http://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/vmail.htm

 

He describes the PDP-11 based assembler, binaries stored on paper tape, and home made ROM emulators. He also describes how the technology improved over time. Very fun read, along with everything on his site!

 

- KS

 

wow Very interesting! Here you go a fragment:

 

I worked for Atari and then one of its successor companies (Atari Games) for 13 years, designing hardware for coin-operated video games. When I arrived in 1979, software for the games was cross-assembled on two DEC PDP-11/20 systems in batch mode. We had two computer operators who would take your marked-up listing, do the edits, and run the program. If it actually ran without any fatal errors, it would produce a listing and a paper tape. Paper tape? (Well, at least it wasn't punched cards.)

 

On a good day the process would take less than an hour. On a bad day, when someone else's project had been designated as "hot" because it was about to go out on Field Test or be Released, you might get only two runs that day.

 

Anybody else has more stories to share?

 

PS: Vickey, having that scans would be great

[Keatah]

Supercharger games were developed on the Apple II..

[Wickeycolumbus]

PS: Vickey, having that scans would be great

 

Better late than never I guess! Here is the scan. The caption implies 'Alan Moss' wrote Super Breakout, but he is not in the AA 2600 programmer database. Strange.

[+Allan]

PS: Vickey, having that scans would be great

 

Better late than never I guess! Here is the scan. The caption implies 'Alan Moss' wrote Super Breakout, but he is not in the AA 2600 programmer database. Strange.

It could be the 5200 or 8-bit Super Breakout. The pic does look like the 5200/8-bit version.

 

I just checked. Alan Moss converted it from the 8-bit to the 5200. So I guess that's what he is doing there.

 

What magazine is this from, Wickeycolumbus? And thanks for the scan.

 

Allan

Edited May 25, 2009 by Allan

[+Allan]

I just looked at the picture again and he is holding a 5200 controller. I guess that confirms it.

 

Allan

[Wickeycolumbus]

PS: Vickey, having that scans would be great

 

Better late than never I guess! Here is the scan. The caption implies 'Alan Moss' wrote Super Breakout, but he is not in the AA 2600 programmer database. Strange.

It could be the 5200 or 8-bit Super Breakout. The pic does look like the 5200/8-bit version.

 

I just checked. Lalan Moss converted it from the 8-bit to the 5200. So I guess that's what he is doing there.

 

What magazine is this from, Wickeycolumbus? And thanks for the scan.

 

Allan

 

No problem, I have actually been meaning to post that since I joined AA! It came out of this book:

[GroovyBee]

So, who is going to rack mount their 5200 first for that real retro feel?

[pwalters]

Does anyone know what tools Atari programmers had on their desks to write games back in those 2600 days? What computers and assemblers (maybe in-house emulators) were used? What sort of equipment there were in Atari labs - scopes, multimeters, logic analyzers? How software and hardware debugging were performed?

 

Just wondering

 

... I see this is quite an old thread, but I thought I would chip in here with what I used to develop 2600 games in the early '80s.

 

At work ( Enter-Tech LTD), we had two GenRad/FutureData dev systems. These were full ICE (In-circuit-simulator) devices. Here's a link to some info on these: https://pcmuseum.ca/details.asp?id=574

We took the 2600, cut it open, removed the CPU and placed a socket that converted the 28pin package to a standard 6502 40 pin header. The GenRad's ICE prob then was plugged directly into the 40 pin 6502 socket.

 

For it's time it was a very advanced tool. Having an ICE that supported multiple hardware breakpoints, hardware timers so we could time how long it took to run blocks of code, and rapid build/test cycles was very useful.

 

The units had 2 8" floppy drives, and internally it had a RAM file system. In the morning we would load up the RFS with the code, compiler, editor etc. Then we could get very fast (for the time) compilation cycles.

 

We used these dev systems for all of our 6502 work on the Atari, the Moppet video arcade games, and the gambling Card game products.

[Carpenter]

 

... I see this is quite an old thread, but I thought I would chip in here with what I used to develop 2600 games in the early '80s.

 

At work ( Enter-Tech LTD), we had two GenRad/FutureData dev systems. These were full ICE (In-circuit-simulator) devices. Here's a link to some info on these: https://pcmuseum.ca/details.asp?id=574

We took the 2600, cut it open, removed the CPU and placed a socket that converted the 28pin package to a standard 6502 40 pin header. The GenRad's ICE prob then was plugged directly into the 40 pin 6502 socket.

 

For it's time it was a very advanced tool. Having an ICE that supported multiple hardware breakpoints, hardware timers so we could time how long it took to run blocks of code, and rapid build/test cycles was very useful.

 

The units had 2 8" floppy drives, and internally it had a RAM file system. In the morning we would load up the RFS with the code, compiler, editor etc. Then we could get very fast (for the time) compilation cycles.

 

We used these dev systems for all of our 6502 work on the Atari, the Moppet video arcade games, and the gambling Card game products.

 

Thanks for sharing this, pwalters!

 

Definitively, having an ICE must have been an advantage at that time!

[Mr SQL]

 

... I see this is quite an old thread, but I thought I would chip in here with what I used to develop 2600 games in the early '80s.

 

At work ( Enter-Tech LTD), we had two GenRad/FutureData dev systems. These were full ICE (In-circuit-simulator) devices. Here's a link to some info on these: https://pcmuseum.ca/details.asp?id=574

We took the 2600, cut it open, removed the CPU and placed a socket that converted the 28pin package to a standard 6502 40 pin header. The GenRad's ICE prob then was plugged directly into the 40 pin 6502 socket.

 

For it's time it was a very advanced tool. Having an ICE that supported multiple hardware breakpoints, hardware timers so we could time how long it took to run blocks of code, and rapid build/test cycles was very useful.

 

The units had 2 8" floppy drives, and internally it had a RAM file system. In the morning we would load up the RFS with the code, compiler, editor etc. Then we could get very fast (for the time) compilation cycles.

 

We used these dev systems for all of our 6502 work on the Atari, the Moppet video arcade games, and the gambling Card game products.

 

Wow that is a really advanced devkit with the primary features of a modern IDE, did your 80's assembler feature macro support as well?

 

I find Tron more interesting but there is a debugger built into the emulator that many programmers like to use for the equivalent feature set you had in your expansive 80's setup.

[Keatah]

Which emulator?

[Mr SQL]

Which emulator?

 

Stella

[pwalters]

 

Wow that is a really advanced devkit with the primary features of a modern IDE, did your 80's assembler feature macro support as well?

 

I find Tron more interesting but there is a debugger built into the emulator that many programmers like to use for the equivalent feature set you had in your expansive 80's setup.

 

When I first started at Tuni / Enter-Tech, my first project was the El Grande 5 card draw arcade machine. The tools they had available for development was a single EPROM programmer. El Grande was simply a mod off of a platform they licensed from a San Diego company. But to make changes I had to build by hand and then manually enter the binary code into the Data I/O EPROM programmer. Fortunately it wasn't too long until they bought the first Genrad/Futuredata.

 

Yes, it supported macros. Also it built object files, and had a linker -- not all would do that back then. I also did 2600 projects at home using a board I made that operated as a RAM cartridge. I'd build the code on my Atari 800 and load it into the RAM cartridge by pushing it out the 800's joystick ports It took 3 ports to have enough signals to manipulate the RAM cartridge. I had also built an EPROM programmer that was controlled through the 800's joystick ports, but the RAM cart was, of course, faster and easier.

 

The Genrad/FutureData system was really expensive -- $25k in 1982. That would be over $65k in today's dollars.

Edited September 24, 2018 by pwalters

[Mr SQL]

 

When I first started at Tuni / Enter-Tech, my first project was the El Grande 5 card draw arcade machine. The tools they had available for development was a single EPROM programmer. El Grande was simply a mod off of a platform they licensed from a San Diego company. But to make changes I had to build by hand and then manually enter the binary code into the Data I/O EPROM programmer. Fortunately it wasn't too long until they bought the first Genrad/Futuredata.

 

Yes, it supported macros. Also it built object files, and had a linker -- not all would do that back then. I also did 2600 projects at home using a board I made that operated as a RAM cartridge. I'd build the code on my Atari 800 and load it into the RAM cartridge by pushing it out the 800's joystick ports It took 3 ports to have enough signals to manipulate the RAM cartridge. I had also built an EPROM programmer that was controlled through the 800's joystick ports, but the RAM cart was, of course, faster and easier.

 

The Genrad/FutureData system was really expensive -- $25k in 1982. That would be over $65k in today's dollars.

 

Very cool!

 

Awesome you made you made your own RAM board for the 2600, was it inspired by Arcadia/Starpath's SuperCharger RAM board?

[pwalters]

 

Very cool!

 

Awesome you made you made your own RAM board for the 2600, was it inspired by Arcadia/Starpath's SuperCharger RAM board?

 

Well I had seen the 'SuperCharger' but it was seeing and playing with the Frob that got me going on it. I had bigger plans, but with the Atari crash, and with young children to feed I had to do other things. Worked at HoneyWell's large scale mainframe division for a few years.. I still laugh when I see Intel based PC's or Apple come up with a 'brand new way' to do things, when we were doing that and more in the '80s -- but that's another story.

 

In the late 80's I got back into game making. I had a large 65c816 project and wrote a C compiler just so the project would be easier to manage. I also built a full dev system for the 65c816 processor that was later used on Nintendo's SNES and sold it to developers. I based it on the 'Grammar Engine' ROM emulator, because they had built in a communications channel that allowed the development PC to communicate through a 'virtual' serial port in the ROM emulator to the cpu. The emulator also let the PC control reset, trigger IRQ and write data anywhere into the ROM emulators space. With the small monitor in the game code, you would get full breakpoints, dump all register values, single step through source code, snapshots, and real time modifications of data values. Sold it to a number of SNES game developers and development companies.

 

The SNES used the 65c816 CPU. That CPU was designed by the Western Design Center and licensed to companies that wanted to use it such as Nintendo. WDC was founded by Bill Mensch and they were located about 2 miles from my house. I considered Bill Mensch a friend and I had worked with him off and on various projects since my early days at Enter-Tech. It was nice be able to drive over to WDC's offices and talk with the chip designers on its ins and outs.

 

Perhaps a little bit off topic as the tools were late 80's into the early 90's.

[analogman]

I actually have an old El grande 5 card draw cabinet. It fires up, but wont accept coins and I dont know how to bypass ?