201 replies to this topic

[Rik]

I say ONE of the main reasons that damaged the industry was due to that human characteristic thats been the downfall of many,and to this day the reason the economy is in the toilet ...."GREED"There were too many fatheads salivating at the mouth thinking about all the millions they'll make by pumping out all kinds of poor quality garbage.The consumer was being mocked,they finally caught on,got turned off and turned their backs.Things were changing also,the home computer thing was starting to take off.Everything must come to and end for something new and exciting to take over,its always been that way with everything.

Edited by Rik, Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:17 PM.

[Murph74]

No, it was a fad for some, many people just playing it because it was popular, which inflated the market a bit, but there was still a strong fundimental user base of kids and arcade fans (plus the occasional older crowd that played in a more casual fassion).

I propose we agree to disagree here. If there was indeed the strong fundamental base you refer to for game consoles, then there would likely have been no chance of this crash that is being discussed. A loyal base, yes. A strong base, maybe not as much. If so, more would have succeeded. I do believe the PC world took some of the gaming world's thunder, but not enough to choke it out at the price points by comparison.

At least in my world, we were a middle class family of 3 boys, and the parents were willing to spend the $200 for a Colecovision for Christmas (1982) to replace the Atari, but not jump to the pricing of the low end PC market. Then when the schools at the time were using Apple IIe's here starting in late 84/early 85, and suggesting to parents that if they got a home computer, it should be the same Apple IIe/c for sake of compatibility, a PC was even further from my future. I was able to convince them to get me an Adam, with the hook of the AppleSoft Basic compatibility (yeah, ok, kinda-- in a real not true way lol). A C-64 wasn't in my world til 1989 when I bought my own used from a guy named Nick Tanurchis. Oddly enough, I still have that same C-64c. And it wasn't til 1995 that I got my first 386...

The point being, that not all middle class families were jumping on the PC bandwagon... very few I know did. And video games remained a constant for those I knew here in St. Louis; just the Kay Bee pricing being a great benefit to our interests.

[Pixelboy]

No, it was a fad for some, many people just playing it because it was popular, which inflated the market a bit, but there was still a strong fundimental user base of kids and arcade fans (plus the occasional older crowd that played in a more casual fassion).

I propose we agree to disagree here. If there was indeed the strong fundamental base you refer to for game consoles, then there would likely have been no chance of this crash that is being discussed. A loyal base, yes. A strong base, maybe not as much. If so, more would have succeeded. I do believe the PC world took some of the gaming world's thunder, but not enough to choke it out at the price points by comparison.

At least in my world, we were a middle class family of 3 boys, and the parents were willing to spend the $200 for a Colecovision for Christmas (1982) to replace the Atari, but not jump to the pricing of the low end PC market. Then when the schools at the time were using Apple IIe's here starting in late 84/early 85, and suggesting to parents that if they got a home computer, it should be the same Apple IIe/c for sake of compatibility, a PC was even further from my future. I was able to convince them to get me an Adam, with the hook of the AppleSoft Basic compatibility (yeah, ok, kinda-- in a real not true way lol). A C-64 wasn't in my world til 1989 when I bought my own used from a guy named Nick Tanurchis. Oddly enough, I still have that same C-64c. And it wasn't til 1995 that I got my first 386...

The point being, that not all middle class families were jumping on the PC bandwagon... very few I know did. And video games remained a constant for those I knew here in St. Louis; just the Kay Bee pricing being a great benefit to our interests.

If I may pitch in my own two cents here, let's not forget the industry's side of that crash (because yes, there was a crash). In 1984, just about every major retailer in North America became convinced that video games were no longer profitable, and that there was a certain shift hapenning to home computers, although that shift was never well-defined at the time.

Look at how GM's financial troubles is affecting the economy today, the same thing happened on a smaller, localized scale with Atari: When Atari announced massive losses, it sent out a message that video games were losing their popularity, but this perception had nothing to do with customer demand. At the time, the retail market could not see the difference between a badly-managed company (which Atari was) and a company that no longer had an interesting product to offer. So retailers decided to cut their losses and sell off their remaining stocks in bargain bins. The video games industry couldn't stop the momentum, which could really be described as a perfect storm, and other players such as Coleco and Mattel were practically forced out of the market (although in Coleco's case, if was really the Adam that sunk them).

So in essence, I'm saying that the crash had little to do with customer demand, as the NES prooved just a couple of years later, but with retailers loosing faith in the industry and flushing it down the toilet.

And to answer the OP, I would say Atari had a lot more to do with the crash than Coleco.

[Ransom]

Thanks, I misread that... Sort of on this topic, was composite video the highest quality the A8 line offered? The C64 had S-Video (through dual RCA with a commodore monitor).

The A8 line offers S-video as well. It's fully connected only on some models, but it can be easily added on to most of the others by the simple connection of a wire to the correct pin.

Edited by Ransom, Wed Jun 3, 2009 7:41 AM.

[mcjakeqcool]

I would say the 2600 jr (and Intelvision jr) did more to save the industry then the NES did.

[Retro Rogue]

I would say the 2600 jr (and Intelvision jr) did more to save the industry then the NES did.

I have to ask again, WTF are you smoking? All across AtariAge, on Wikipedia, etc. you make these really ridiculous assertions and statements. Its really just getting silly already, unless you're serious - in which case its very sad.

[mcjakeqcool]

I'm smokeing nothing (At the moment, lol!) but, yeah I am serious. The 2600 jr, Intelvision jr, Colecovision jr, 5200 jr etc did a lot more to safe the idustry then the NES, and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of evidence to back that up.

[5-11under]

I'm smokeing nothing (At the moment, lol!) but, yeah I am serious. The 2600 jr, Intelvision jr, Colecovision jr, 5200 jr etc did a lot more to safe the idustry then the NES, and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of evidence to back that up.

I'm curious. Feel free to explain.

Thanks,
5-11under

[Murph74]

I'm smokeing nothing (At the moment, lol!) but, yeah I am serious. The 2600 jr, Intelvision jr, Colecovision jr, 5200 jr etc did a lot more to safe the idustry then the NES, and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of evidence to back that up.

Man, I like to debate and play devils advocate (see earlier posts in this thread lol), but I can't even begin to start defending that statement... lol

[5-11under]

I'm smokeing nothing (At the moment, lol!) but, yeah I am serious. The 2600 jr, Intelvision jr, Colecovision jr, 5200 jr etc did a lot more to safe the idustry then the NES, and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of evidence to back that up.

Man, I like to debate and play devils advocate (see earlier posts in this thread lol), but I can't even begin to start defending that statement... lol

I'm trying to erase it from my memory, until he defends his position. I wish I had a ColecoVision Jr., though.
5-11under

[Godzilla]

coleco jr? 5200jr? hu?

[VectorGamer]

coleco jr? 5200jr? hu?

...maybe this guy escaped from somewhere within the last month or so? I think this has got to be the most dysfunctional argument on AA...

One would think that there is more conspiracy behind the "Great Video Game" crash than the assassination of JFK.

[kool kitty89]

The 5100 (also called 5200 Jr.) was never released, the Intellivision II (not Jr.) was released in 1983 but discontinued after the crash when Mattel left the market. Coleco never released a CV Jr. they were switching modes toward the Adam even before the crash, which got them nowhere...

The 2600 Jr. is the only one listed that was actually produced after the crash, and fairly successfully as well, as a budget system, but it hardly "saved" the market...

[Retro Rogue]

I'm smokeing nothing (At the moment, lol!) but, yeah I am serious. The 2600 jr, Intelvision jr, Colecovision jr, 5200 jr etc did a lot more to safe the idustry then the NES, and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of evidence to back that up.

There was no Intellivision Jr., Coleco Jr. or 5200 Jr., so I'd love to see that so called evidence. Likewise, the entire industry - and I mean *entire* industry - (all business practices, etc.) was remolded by Nintendo after the crash. The 2600 jr. just lived off of the previous stock supply (including some minor re-releases) and was nowhere near any sort of comparable placement in that generation's (the NES) industry, it was a minor player. So again, you're acting just playing silly.

[Retro Rogue]

coleco jr? 5200jr? hu?

...maybe this guy escaped from somewhere within the last month or so? I think this has got to be the most dysfunctional argument on AA...

One would think that there is more conspiracy behind the "Great Video Game" crash than the assassination of JFK.

I say we stick him and Carmel in a room together and watch them stare at each other like when a dog first sees itself in a mirror.

[mcjakeqcool]

Alright then, my backup statement... The 5200 jr was cancelled and was a huge sucsess, the Intelvision II was supported during the game crash of '83 and was a huge sucsess, the ColecoVision jr never exzisted and was a huge faliure and the 2600 was a huge sucsess and reshaped the industry. I was smokeing this morning, but trust my, I'm sober now. lol! lol! hahahahaha

[Retro Rogue]

Alright then, my backup statement... The 5200 jr was cancelled and was a huge sucsess, the Intelvision II was supported during the game crash of '83 and was a huge sucsess, the ColecoVision jr never exzisted and was a huge faliure and the 2600 was a huge sucsess and reshaped the industry. I was smokeing this morning, but trust my, I'm sober now. lol! lol! hahahahaha

So another words, you had nothing to back it up and were just doing this as a joke?

[mcjakeqcool]

I can't really remember. But yeah, I'm feeling better, had some personal problems for the past few days, but I'm back to my old self now. Damn, I had a good night yesterday! Now to focus on my rap career, and to dance to a bit of Vid Grid in the process. Ye-haa!

[65Gamerguy]

I know that this thread is pretty old but I thought I would give my two cents worth since I lived through that time. I honestly don't know what caused the crash, and as a teenager, I would have kept buying games, and I did, until they weren't available.

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games and the 7800 couldn't play 5200 games. At that time I had several friends that owned Atari 2600's and none of them purchased any newer Atari systems. One friend did buy an Atari 400 computer.

This is just my perspective of how it happened the way I saw it unfold in the day.

I am not saying that Atari caused the crash but they certainly didn't help the bottom line of the company.

Edited by 65Gamerguy, Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:51 PM.

[JayWI]

[ozma wars]

when in the U.S. market all gamers were still fighting for deciding which of the so many systems had to become the first (2600, 5200, 7800, Colecovision, Intellivision, Vectrex, Atari homecomputers...) in Europe consoles were already bypassed by Commodore 64 and Spectrum 48k that became THE standards for 5 years approx. We can say that by end of 1983 the import of cartridges for the a.m. systems in Europe was virtually finished. So, for me, the responsible of the crash...was the market itself.....TOO MANY SYSTEMS....and MANY MANY games for the same system.....so a smaller amd smaller market for any new/old machine arriving to the sales.

[jetset]

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

Neither could the Colecovision. What's your point?

[retroillucid]

Coleco caused more damage to the games industry then Atari

You're kidding me right?


Why the hell would Coleco caused more damage than Atari?!

[high voltage]

Coleco caused more damage to the games industry then Atari


I knew it!


but....RCA Studio II are also to blame.

Edited by high voltage, Thu Sep 1, 2011 9:15 AM.

[Vic George 2K3]

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

Neither could the Colecovision. What's your point?

At least Coleco offered an expansion module to play 2600 games on the ColecoVision right from the start. Atari ended up waiting a year or so before they did the same for their 5200. Which basically sounds like a bad strategy for Atari if they wanted 2600 owners to upgrade to the 5200, and the reason Atari decided to scrap the 5200 and work on the 7800.

Edited by Vic George 2K3, Thu Sep 1, 2011 10:36 AM.