Jump to content

Photo

I found a mac IIsi, what to do with it?


67 replies to this topic

#26 cybercylon OFFLINE  

cybercylon

    River Patroller

  • 2,396 posts
  • Location:SW PA

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:04 AM

Here is a link that might help

http://lowendmac.com...ntosh-iisi.html

#27 Spazmonkey OFFLINE  

Spazmonkey

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 283 posts

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:17 PM

I just finished socketing the CPU oscillator. I don't have a new oscillator yet, but supposedly, you can get it really high, 30+mhz if you don't need the floppy disc. 27.5 mhz is the most stable, but I think I'll just go with plain 25. If anyone has any games.... :D


Games that are boxed or original, you mean ;)


Yeah, I'm really against piracy, even though it's almost 20 year old piracy. However, if I have to resort to that, I will, but lets search a little bit longer before we succumb to the dark side.

#28 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:16 PM

Sim City 2000 is now freeware:

http://mac.softpedia...City-2000.shtml

Glider is a fun game that is now freeware. You'll need version 4.0 for system 6 & 7 at the bottom:

http://homepage.mac..../Downloads.html

#29 Spazmonkey OFFLINE  

Spazmonkey

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 283 posts

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:48 PM

How do I burn these to a floppy? What the heck is a .sit file? The noob questions finally pore in :D

#30 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:12 PM

How do I burn these to a floppy? What the heck is a .sit file? The noob questions finally pore in :D


A .sit file is similar to a .zip file... it was compress by Suffit!, which is/was the most popular compression software on the Mac. This will need to be extracted by Stuffit Expander.

Do you know what System Software is on the IIsi? If it has System 7.5, then it should have the PC Exchange control panel that allowed you to mount PC floppies to the desktop.

So, the three things I need to know are: System version, if PC Exchange or Apple File Exchange are on the HD, and if Stuffit Expander is on the computer.

#31 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:50 AM

How do I burn these to a floppy? What the heck is a .sit file? The noob questions finally pore in :D


A .sit file is similar to a .zip file... it was compress by Suffit!, which is/was the most popular compression software on the Mac. This will need to be extracted by Stuffit Expander.

Do you know what System Software is on the IIsi? If it has System 7.5, then it should have the PC Exchange control panel that allowed you to mount PC floppies to the desktop.

So, the three things I need to know are: System version, if PC Exchange or Apple File Exchange are on the HD, and if Stuffit Expander is on the computer.


Another possibility I thought I would throw out there, is if you are absolutely unable to get the system setup, then you could send me HD (and enough cash to send it back) and I would set it up with enough software to get you going. If you're not comfortable with that, or really just want to do it yourself, then that's fine. Just thought I would offer, since I have more vintage Mac resources available here.

#32 cybercylon OFFLINE  

cybercylon

    River Patroller

  • 2,396 posts
  • Location:SW PA

Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:49 PM

Since you were asking about games earlier in the thread, a number of them are now free downloads. The first two marathon games would work okay on the IIsi. Also, others like SimCity 2000 have been released as free downloads.

I actually just got rid of most of my vintage Apple stuff, so can't be of much help.

Is there an OS on that machine? You can download 7.01 or 7.5 from Apple, but those will be floppy images. That I might be able to do something with if you can send me floppies. I think aftermac can set you up better.

#33 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

thegoldenband

    Quadrunner

  • 5,414 posts
  • Location:The Sapphire Galaxy

Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:34 PM

I believe both Oxyd and The Fool's Errand have been released as freeware -- I'm 100% sure about the latter, but could be wrong about Oxyd. Both are highly recommended if you like puzzle games, though they can be exceedingly frustrating (in entirely different ways)!

Others, let's see...Taskmaker was fun, if you like RPGs. I also enjoyed Dungeon of Doom, a long long time ago.

Edited by thegoldenband, Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:35 PM.


#34 Spazmonkey OFFLINE  

Spazmonkey

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 283 posts

Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:20 PM

Yeah, I'm just piecing things together. I have to get a screen adapter, that 15 pin socket to vga, with the dipswitches on the adapter. I should have it monday. And then I need to somehow jury rig a keyboard to look at the specs and stuff to get games figured out. I'm bidding on a keyboard, so we'll see. Which mouse should I get?

#35 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:44 PM

Yeah, I'm just piecing things together. I have to get a screen adapter, that 15 pin socket to vga, with the dipswitches on the adapter. I should have it monday. And then I need to somehow jury rig a keyboard to look at the specs and stuff to get games figured out. I'm bidding on a keyboard, so we'll see. Which mouse should I get?


A standard Apple ADB Mouse II will do. There's not really much call for right-clicking in System 7.x.x. Which keyboard are you bidding on?

Posted Image

#36 FlightSuit OFFLINE  

FlightSuit

    Stargunner

  • 1,414 posts

Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:25 PM

How do I burn these to a floppy?



Well, first of all, you're going to need a floppy burner...


;-)

#37 cybercylon OFFLINE  

cybercylon

    River Patroller

  • 2,396 posts
  • Location:SW PA

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:00 AM

How do I burn these to a floppy?



Well, first of all, you're going to need a floppy burner...


;-)


Not sure of what he was referring to. If he is trying to use the images from Apple's site, they are HFS formatted, and you have to use a copy of Apple's Disk Utility to get those images onto a floppy disk. A PC won't help, unless there is some third party utility I am unaware of.

As far as a mouse goes, there are two button ADB mice out there... contextual menus appeared in 7.5... depends how much you right click in Windows.

#38 Tom-Lynx OFFLINE  

Tom-Lynx

    Dragonstomper

  • 715 posts
  • Location:NW Chicago Suburbs, IL

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:03 AM

If you are into music / keyboards, older Macs make fantastic dedicated machines for MIDI. It doesn't use a lot of horespower and there is a lot of MIDI software out there for Macs. Get yourself an old version of Finale software on the cheep and you are good to go for recording and printing music.

#39 FlightSuit OFFLINE  

FlightSuit

    Stargunner

  • 1,414 posts

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:25 AM

I was joking about the floppy burner.

Although...

If one happened to have a SCSI CD-ROM drive, they could probably burn those disc images onto a CD-ROM, and there probably is a Windows utility out there for burning Mac discs from a PC. Goodness knows how difficult of a search it might be, though.

LowEndMac.com is definitely your friend, and I would also suggest the following forum for tons of help from friendly, helpful folks:

Mac|Life

If anybody happens to join up over there, do be sure and look for me in the "Unplugged" forum and say "Hi." My username over there is "Bren."

#40 FlightSuit OFFLINE  

FlightSuit

    Stargunner

  • 1,414 posts

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:27 AM

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting you'd need a SCSI CD-ROM drive to burn the discs; I'm just saying the easiest, or only, way of getting the Mac IIsi to be able to read the discs would be to plug a SCSI CD-ROM into it.

#41 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:09 AM

Don't worry... I got your joke FlightSuit... I almost posted the same thing, but refrained. ;)

There are HFS utilities for Windows... you might be able to find a quick and dirty free utility here and there (or at least a free trial period), but most you have to pay for.

In order to use a Windows burned CD on a System 7 Mac it needs to be burned in HFS format, or use an Extension like this:

http://www.tempel.org/joliet/

It says it only goes back as far as 7.5.5, but I have not tested it... Sometimes you can get System 7.5 Extensions and Control Panels to work in 7.1, since 7.5 is basically 7.1 with a bunch more Extensions and CPs added. There are also some Windows/Mac links at the bottom of the page that might be helpful... I'm not going to bother reposting them.

I'd recommend running 7.1 on the IIsi. 7.5.x will work, but it will be quite a bit slower, unless you disable its memory and speed hogging Extensions... which basically leaves you with 7.1.

System 6.0.8 would be best for speed, but I'm a System 7 child and just never been able to really use System 6. :)

#42 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:38 PM

Here's a couple fun documents I found in my archives... 40 GB (compressed) of old Apple & Mac software. Doesn't sound that impressive today, but considering that HDs 20 years ago were 20-160 MB. :)

Developer Note:
Attached File  Mac_IIsi.pdf   531.72KB   141 downloads

Service Source:
Attached File  macintosh_iisi.pdf   562.48KB   86 downloads

#43 Spazmonkey OFFLINE  

Spazmonkey

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 283 posts

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:44 PM

Holy Cow! Thanks a bunch, I should have some fun with that. Quick question, how do I tell what version I'm using? Also, I have been looking on ebay, but I can't find any nubus SCSI adapters. Should I just wait fo rone to show up there?

#44 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:00 PM

Holy Cow! Thanks a bunch, I should have some fun with that. Quick question, how do I tell what version I'm using? Also, I have been looking on ebay, but I can't find any nubus SCSI adapters. Should I just wait fo rone to show up there?


To tell what System Software your are using, click on the Apple Menu in the upper-left corner and choose "About this Macintosh...".

Nubus SCSI adapter :?: The IIsi has SCSI built-in, so you don't need a SCSI card.

#45 Spazmonkey OFFLINE  

Spazmonkey

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 283 posts

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:28 PM

Holy Cow! Thanks a bunch, I should have some fun with that. Quick question, how do I tell what version I'm using? Also, I have been looking on ebay, but I can't find any nubus SCSI adapters. Should I just wait fo rone to show up there?


To tell what System Software your are using, click on the Apple Menu in the upper-left corner and choose "About this Macintosh...".

Nubus SCSI adapter :?: The IIsi has SCSI built-in, so you don't need a SCSI card.


Doh! How can I use both the Hard Drive, and another SCSI device at the same? Does there exist an SCSI splitter?

#46 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:46 PM

Holy Cow! Thanks a bunch, I should have some fun with that. Quick question, how do I tell what version I'm using? Also, I have been looking on ebay, but I can't find any nubus SCSI adapters. Should I just wait fo rone to show up there?


To tell what System Software your are using, click on the Apple Menu in the upper-left corner and choose "About this Macintosh...".

Nubus SCSI adapter :?: The IIsi has SCSI built-in, so you don't need a SCSI card.


Doh! How can I use both the Hard Drive, and another SCSI device at the same? Does there exist an SCSI splitter?


On the IIsi you have one SCSI chain, that can support 7 devices, ID 0-6... each device needs a different ID. ID 7 is your SCSI controller. The IIsi SCSI chain has ports internally on the motherboard (for your HD), and a 25-pin connector on the back of the computer for up to 6 external daisy-chained devices. Most external SCSI devices (HDs, CD-ROMs, scanners, etc...) will have an ID selector (usually) near the SCSI port on the device. This might be dip-switches, slide switches, push-button number selector, or other.

The important thing is that each device has a UNIQUE ID. Once you are up and running there is a utility (I probably have this :ponder: ;) ) called SCSI Probe, that will help you manage your SCSI devices.

SCSI on the Mac is akin to voodoo, but I will be of assistance if you need it. :)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that if you are having a SCSI issue, try changing the ID of the external device. Also, any SCSI device other than a hard drive WILL require drivers. The only exceptions that I can think of are CD-ROMs, which I believe are natively supported in 7.5... maybe 7.6... don't remember exactly without looking it up, and pressing Command(Apple)-Option-Shift-Delete (bypasses the internal HD on the start up sequence) on start-up will sometimes allow you to start up from a Zip drive (with a blessed System Folder, of course).

Edited by aftermac, Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:56 PM.


#47 FlightSuit OFFLINE  

FlightSuit

    Stargunner

  • 1,414 posts

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:45 PM

You'd better explain to him what a "blessed" system folder is, and what extensions are. Remember, if somebody's not familiar with an old-school Mac, the whole deal with extensions and the extension manager might be kinda new territory.

#48 cybercylon OFFLINE  

cybercylon

    River Patroller

  • 2,396 posts
  • Location:SW PA

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:44 PM

I've been buried in OS X from the moment it came out that I have forgotten most of the old school Mac stuff, but it is coming to memory.

I suggested system 7.5 because some of the "newer" software requires certain things not present in System 7.01. System 7.01 was pretty buggy, and although 7.1 is stable, you can't legally download it. You could probably score 7.1 on the cheap somewhere though. However, you can bump that IIsi up to 17 megs. More than plenty for 7.5. I've actually read about people adding up to 65 megs (4 16 meg 30 pin dimms+1 meg onboard memory), but those sized dimms didn't come out until long after the IIsi was out, and they might be expensive.

So here is a link for the system software:

http://download.info...m/Older_System/

The main reason why 7.5 is slower is because of what aftermac said... it comes with extra baggage. Some of this you can choose not to install... Examples that come to mind are Quickdraw GX and OpenDoc. Don't bother with any of that. All dead technology that went no where. Some it is installed and can be turned off later. That is what you do with the Extensions Manager. That means nothing to you now without the OS running, but think of it as turning off services in Windows that are not needed. Which ones you can turn off... going to take longer for it to percolate to my memory.

Now regarding CD drives, there are a couple of issues that came to mind. Back in the day, my wife and I switched over to an Mac LC4, and we were frustrated installing the OS and other software from floppies. So I picked up an external SCSI CD-ROM drive. Unfortunately, back in the day, Apple was pretty fussy about what CD-ROM drives and hard drives you could use. If they weren't "Apple branded", they didn't always work. For example, Disk Utility only works on "Apple branded" hard drives. Much of this changed with OS 9 and OS X. I never did get that CD drive to work properly; Apple drivers would only recognize Apple Drives.

If you go for the scsi CD drive solution, I have to add that the last drive on the chain has to be terminated. Even if it self-terminating, some of the old stuff wasn't so great for that, so I usually had to use an external terminator. It's a little dongle that fits on the second port for the last SCSI device. SCSI wasn't so bad on the Mac. I remember having to deal with it on the PC, and that left scars.

Here is link for more software: http://www.versiontracker.com/macos/. Nothing is listed because not much has been made for the old OS for awhile. Upper left right hand corner, type in what you are looking for.

I'll post more if I can remember

#49 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:16 PM

You'd better explain to him what a "blessed" system folder is, and what extensions are. Remember, if somebody's not familiar with an old-school Mac, the whole deal with extensions and the extension manager might be kinda new territory.


I figured we'd get to that eventually, I have thrown out a couple vague terms that only have meaning to us long-time Mac users, but don't want to throw out too much information at once. If nothing else, it might create a few questions. ;) The basics of SCSI on the Mac is quite a bit for one post.

Here are a few off-the-top-of-my-head definitions, though:

"Blessed" System Folder: A folder which contains both the Finder and System Files. Your computer needs one of these to start up, though you may also need some supporting files for start up to actually happen. Typically, this will be on your internal HD, but any available disk will work in most cases. To be "blessed" or recognized by the computer as an active System Folder the folder needs to have an icon like this:

Posted Image

To "bless" a System Folder, typically all you need to do is double-click a folder that contains the Finder and System Files, then close it and the folder should have the appropriate icon. It's a good idea to only have one of these on a disk. :)

Extensions: Extensions (also called INIT's, but that's a more technical term) are files that are place in the "Extensions" folder within the System Folder, which add functionality to the operating system. These can be driver files, interface tweaks, network functionality, or any of thousands of possibilities. Extensions are automatically activated on start up. So to install an Extension you drag it to the System Folder (or directly into the Extensions folder, then restart your computer. Conversely, you can uninstall an Extension by dragging it out of the System Folder, then restarting. Extensions can be disabled in a number of ways. The most common way is to hold down "Shift" on start up until you see a message saying:

"Welcome to Macintosh"
"Extensions Disabled"

You can also temporarily uninstall them as mentioned above, or by using the Extensions Manager (see below). So, why would you want to disable Extensions? Well, because they often conflict with each other and disabling them is a useful way to troubleshoot the problem. Remember there is no protected memory on these old systems, so the right conflict can bring the whole system down.

The old acronym says it all:

M ost
A pplications
C rash
I f
N ot
T he
O perating
S ystem
H angs

Boy do I miss those days... I never have to troubleshoot Mac OS X... :)

Extensions Manager: Introduced in System 7.5, the Extensions Manager allowed you to better manage your Extensions and Control Panels. There are two ways to activate it. One is to go into the Control Panels folder and Launch it from there. The second is by holding the Space Bar on start up until the Extensions Manager appears. Then you can choose which Extensions (or sets of Extensions) you wish to activate or deactivate. This is incredibly useful if your System will not fully boot because of a previously mentioned Extensions conflict.

Control Panels: Also, called CDEV's (again a more technical term) are similar to Extensions but they are interactive, allowing you to change settings on your computer. Control Panels can add functionality themselves, or can be used to change the functionality of an Extension.

I think this hits most of the basics... it's been a while since System 7 was my daily driver. ;)

#50 aftermac OFFLINE  

aftermac

    River Patroller

  • 2,447 posts
  • Location:Detroit

Posted Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:38 PM

I've actually read about people adding up to 65 megs (4 16 meg 30 pin dimms+1 meg onboard memory), but those sized dimms didn't come out until long after the IIsi was out, and they might be expensive.


Not to be the technical police, but for the sake of correctness the IIsi uses 30-pin SIMMs, which are pretty hard to come by these days.

If you go for the scsi CD drive solution, I have to add that the last drive on the chain has to be terminated. Even if it self-terminating, some of the old stuff wasn't so great for that, so I usually had to use an external terminator. It's a little dongle that fits on the second port for the last SCSI device. SCSI wasn't so bad on the Mac. I remember having to deal with it on the PC, and that left scars.


Glad you mentioned terminating! I knew I was bound to forget something! :)

I've had odd SCSI issues in the past. Weird crap... that just makes you scratch your head.

Edited by aftermac, Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:40 PM.





0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users