SoulBlazer Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Something I always wondered about..... Both the Atari 2600 and the Intelivision had either official or semi-official support from the parent (or new parent) company and some other companies after the system was 'retired'. Both of them had games come out as late as the early 90's, a incredible long time span. Yet it seems that the Colecovision, when it was stopped in 1985, was stopped forever -- no new 'official' systems (not counting clones), no new games, nothing. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneAgeGamer Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Didn't they file for bankruptcy in '88? So how would they support anything after that point in time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectorman Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Didn't they file for bankruptcy in '88? So how would they support anything after that point in time? Telegames bought the rights to some unreleased games like Alcazar's Forgotten Fortress and Boulder Dash and released them later on. The 1-800 service number on the bottom of colecovisions was bought by e-coleco and was answered by them, at least until the mid 90's, maybe still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Coleco aggressively divested themselves of all things CV after the Adam debacle, and had sold everything off to other companies by October 1985. Disentangling from the home console/computer market -- indeed, from electronics entirely -- was a key part of their plans to get back on an even keel. Several analysts have written that Coleco relied too much on "hits" like the Cabbage Patch Kids, and didn't have an effective strategy for a long-term sustainable business. If it hadn't been for the CPK, perhaps they wouldn't have even survived past 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Is it fair to say Coleco went out of business because of Adam's failure?Sure seems like it,they must lost hundreds of millions on that. Edited September 22, 2009 by Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Several analysts have written that Coleco relied too much on "hits" like the Cabbage Patch Kids, and didn't have an effective strategy for a long-term sustainable business. If it hadn't been for the CPK, perhaps they wouldn't have even survived past 1984. I've read the mismanagement and "lack of long term strategy" thing several times, but I gathered that the CPK (and *not* CV and Adam) was the biggest contributor to Coleco's demise. It was the insane success of the CPK, followed by Coleco's attempts to meet demand through increasing CPK production, and then not recognizing the fad was over until it was too late. Coleco paid a large royalty to Xavier Roberts for each doll whether it sold or not. They leveraged everything to increase manufacturing and distribution. When the craze was over, the CPK had used up Coleco. There's no question that the Adam created problems and the game market crash made things worse. IIRC, losses from CPK were over 10x losses from the Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 As a stock holder during that time period, I can say the reason given for distancing itself from it's video games was to try and make itself look more attractive for a (then) possible Hasbro buyout. They continued Colecovision support through '85. They did not "sell it off to other companies by Oct. '85", what they had done was sold off all the inventory for Adam and most of the Colecovision stock, as was reported at the time as well. They had actually still been making Colecovision and Colecovision products as recent as that summer while they decided what to do. The actual properties for everything were sold off later during the reorganization, some of the games properties were sold off to Telegames during the interim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Interesting -- I knew that they were weighing their options in the middle of '85, and it doesn't surprise me that they were still putting out product during the summer. But I could swear that one of the reports I read had a quote from Greenberg saying that as of October 1985, they were 100% out and had sold everything off to third parties. I'll see if I can find it again. EDIT: Well, the quote I found confirms your account, rather than my incorrect memory -- Greenberg says that all of the Adam and much of the CV inventory had been sold off. Do you have any more details regarding the months after October, and what happened when? Edited September 22, 2009 by thegoldenband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Interesting, I didn't know all of that either. I didn't realize the properties had been sold. Did Telegames get rights to everything -- the system, the registered owner list, the games? If they had everything, I'm surprised they didn't do what INTV did and try to support the system by selling finished games to owners. I just recall from a kid back in the day that while I heard and still saw the Atari and Intelivision late into the 80's, I never heard anything else about the CV after 85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 EDIT: Well, the quote I found confirms your account, rather than my incorrect memory -- Greenberg says that all of the Adam and much of the CV inventory had been sold off. Do you have any more details regarding the months after October, and what happened when? I'll see if I can dig in to my old quarterly reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Interesting, I didn't know all of that either. I didn't realize the properties had been sold. Did Telegames get rights to everything -- the system, the registered owner list, the games? If they had everything, I'm surprised they didn't do what INTV did and try to support the system by selling finished games to owners. I just recall from a kid back in the day that while I heard and still saw the Atari and Intelivision late into the 80's, I never heard anything else about the CV after 85. Telegames just got the rights to a bunch of the games, as previously stated. The personal arcade/Dina was simply a clone OEM'd by Bit Corporation. Though it's been claimed on fansites, I have no idea where the claim of them buying the ColecoVision itself came from, let alone a "registered owner list". It's never been claimed on Telegames' site as well. There's a reason they didn't release the console under the ColecoVision name, likewise with their two Windows emulation packages "Personal Arcade" and "Classic Gamer: ColecoVision Hits Volume 1" (colecovision being a subtext in the latter). Edited September 22, 2009 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 That's what I thought, that Telegames just bought the game list. It still makes me wonder, though, why they -- or another company -- didn't try doing what INTV did. That is, get all the rights to the system and games and the registered owner list and keep supporting the system. INTV did it quite well for a number of years. I know the CV probaly had the smallest owner base compared to the Atari 2600 and Intelivision -- after all, it came out last. I've never seen CV sales figures, but the Blue Sky Rangers have 'official' Intelivision numbers. Maybe no one thought that CV would viable in that sence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 That's what I thought, that Telegames just bought the game list. It still makes me wonder, though, why they -- or another company -- didn't try doing what INTV did. That is, get all the rights to the system and games and the registered owner list and keep supporting the system. INTV did it quite well for a number of years. I know the CV probaly had the smallest owner base compared to the Atari 2600 and Intelivision -- after all, it came out last. I've never seen CV sales figures, but the Blue Sky Rangers have 'official' Intelivision numbers. Maybe no one thought that CV would viable in that sence? It may just be a question of Coleco having a corporate image problem. If you have lost all faith in your own product line and just want to get rid of it, why should anyone else give a damn about that product? Taking charge of a product like the Blue Sky Rangers did with the Inty takes a lot of money, effort and commitment, and with Nintendo taking the industry not too long after, the CV just fell in the proverbial crack in the pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) That's what I thought, that Telegames just bought the game list. It still makes me wonder, though, why they -- or another company -- didn't try doing what INTV did. That is, get all the rights to the system and games and the registered owner list and keep supporting the system. INTV did it quite well for a number of years. I know the CV probaly had the smallest owner base compared to the Atari 2600 and Intelivision -- after all, it came out last. I've never seen CV sales figures, but the Blue Sky Rangers have 'official' Intelivision numbers. Maybe no one thought that CV would viable in that sence? INTV were people originally affiliated with the system that didn't want to let it die. Telegames and others were just after market people. Big difference. If I'm running after market sales, and I have rights to reproduce a bulk of the games and access to a cheap clone, why bother with the expense of anything else? Especially when my business isn't based solely on ColecoVision (Telegames produced games for a wide variety of consoles). The bigger question is really what would have happened if Coleco would have held on another 8 months for the revitilzation of the home video game industry? Just two months later, Atari had a great showing of the Jr. and older 2600 stock that winter (enough to cause them to, with pressure from Warner, bring back the 7800), Nintendo did a dismal test launch in NY and by Feb a better one in LA. And then just 8 months later, Nintendo, Sega, and Atari were all pushing their next gen consoles by that June '86 at the Summer CES and the media was abuzz with the news of the market coming back becuase of it (At that point, all three were on equal footing, with the NES's national launch still to happen). By March of '86, Coleco had recovered completely from the failure of the Adam and were no longer in a loss - they were up $110 million in cash and equivalents in fact. Instead, Coleco cut out completely and started buying up electronic toys properties and more doll lines, declaring bankruptcy in a few years. Edited September 22, 2009 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I'll see if I can dig in to my old quarterly reports. That'd be great. When I was trying to dig up total sales for the ColecoVision a few months back, I wasn't able to find any quarterly reports from the CV period, so if those have any sales figures that'd be even better. I have a quote from Greenberg that says total console sales were 2+ million, but I don't know whether that includes other territories (and it certainly doesn't include any post-1985 sales). Meanwhile, there's a persistent 6 million number that also goes around, and I'm not sure where that's from. Edited September 23, 2009 by thegoldenband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Rob Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Something I always wondered about..... Both the Atari 2600 and the Intelivision had either official or semi-official support from the parent (or new parent) company and some other companies after the system was 'retired'. Both of them had games come out as late as the early 90's, a incredible long time span. Yet it seems that the Colecovision, when it was stopped in 1985, was stopped forever -- no new 'official' systems (not counting clones), no new games, nothing. Why? Dude, check it: http://www.coleco.com/ http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/94760-new-coleco-handheld-with-sega-games-on-it-other-games/ I even seen the thing at Walgreens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dude, check it: http://www.coleco.com/ http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/94760-new-coleco-handheld-with-sega-games-on-it-other-games/ I even seen the thing at Walgreens. What does that have to do with aftermarket support for ColecoVision back during the late 80's? That's just a modern company (River West) that bought brand names and slapped them on a few completely unrelated things. The handheld you're showing has zip to do with the ColecoVision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dude, check it: http://www.coleco.com/ http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/94760-new-coleco-handheld-with-sega-games-on-it-other-games/ I even seen the thing at Walgreens. What does that have to do with aftermarket support for ColecoVision back during the late 80's? That's just a modern company (River West) that bought brand names and slapped them on a few completely unrelated things. The handheld you're showing has zip to do with the ColecoVision. That is a "Coleco" rebranded Brazilian handheld Master System. Sega licensed the Master System to a Brazilian company who still sells SMS-based handhelds and consoles in South America. Other than "Coleco" paint on the front, the handheld has nothing to do with the Connecticut Leather Company/Coleco. The handheld pictured was in stores around Christmas 2006. Target was the last place I saw them, on clearance sometime in 2007. By summer 2008 they were reselling on Amazon and eBay for $100+... so if you saw it at Walgreen's any time recently, you should buy up some and sell them to the rest of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARTRIDGE STEALER Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 As a stock holder during that time period, I can say the reason given for distancing itself from it's video games was to try and make itself look more attractive for a (then) possible Hasbro buyout. They continued Colecovision support through '85. They did not "sell it off to other companies by Oct. '85", what they had done was sold off all the inventory for Adam and most of the Colecovision stock, as was reported at the time as well. They had actually still been making Colecovision and Colecovision products as recent as that summer while they decided what to do. The actual properties for everything were sold off later during the reorganization, some of the games properties were sold off to Telegames during the interim. HASBRO had absolutely no interest in Coleco in 1985, let alone any toy company. Hasbro's interest in toy companies came about when thier #1 brands, gi joe and transformers, took off and coleco was dead by this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARTRIDGE STEALER Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dude, check it: http://www.coleco.com/ http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/94760-new-coleco-handheld-with-sega-games-on-it-other-games/ I even seen the thing at Walgreens. What does that have to do with aftermarket support for ColecoVision back during the late 80's? That's just a modern company (River West) that bought brand names and slapped them on a few completely unrelated things. The handheld you're showing has zip to do with the ColecoVision. That is a "Coleco" rebranded Brazilian handheld Master System. Sega licensed the Master System to a Brazilian company who still sells SMS-based handhelds and consoles in South America. Other than "Coleco" paint on the front, the handheld has nothing to do with the Connecticut Leather Company/Coleco. The handheld pictured was in stores around Christmas 2006. Target was the last place I saw them, on clearance sometime in 2007. By summer 2008 they were reselling on Amazon and eBay for $100+... so if you saw it at Walgreen's any time recently, you should buy up some and sell them to the rest of us I think he saw those multi game controllers at walgreen, not one of those mini screen systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) HASBRO had absolutely no interest in Coleco in 1985, let alone any toy company. Hasbro's interest in toy companies came about when thier #1 brands, gi joe and transformers, took off and coleco was dead by this time. I don't recall stating Hasbro had interest in Coleco in 1985. You might want to re-read the paragraph, which is addressing two seperate things - the late 80's period and why there was no further game support from Coleco (the original question), and thegoldenband's claim on Coleco selling off all the properties by October '85. Edited September 23, 2009 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I think he saw those multi game controllers at walgreen, not one of those mini screen systems. The Coleco head-to-head plug and plays, which were modern games "inspired" by the late 70's electronic handhelds. And no, that's not what he's describing. Edited September 23, 2009 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 As for aftermarket support, one thing that hindered that was the fact that there were very few non-licensed games for the CV (At least with the Coleco name) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks for the responses and information provided. Having read and really enjoyed all the information on the BSR website, and picking up info from various Atari websites, it got me thinking about the CV and why I never seemed to hear anything more about it after 1985. Let me toss out another question, then -- IF a company had gotten all the rights for the system and games and tried to support it, like INTV did -- would they have been as successfull as INTV? I don't know what the userbase for the CV was, I think it was less then the Intelivision, but I have nothing to support that save for a shorter market life. It seems like if it was well targeted, though, the system also could have lasted into the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchVenusSpa Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 In my opinion, the biggest mistake Coleco ever made wasn't killing CV, (which in hindsight was a dumbox move as they had the most respected and critically acclaimed system in the biz when the crash happened,) it when they scrapped their tabletop hockey line. (The last being released in about 1988 I believe before either they scrapped them completely or the NHL simply stopped licensing their name to them.) That and pouring damn near all of their remaining resources into Cabbage Patch Kids. This was a scene remenicent of Vita Pack, (a juicebox company that was popular in LA back in the 60's,) when they shut down the juice plant and bet the ranch on the skateboarding fad of the early to mid 60's, (which died for about a decade starting in 1965.) By '66 they had 6 warehouses full of unbought skateboards and went under. When the CBK fad died in 86, (combined with the Care Bears' fad of the same era,) guess what happened? Ultimately I wish ColecoVision had kept the afterlife service around because their system was strong enough to compete head to head with the NES in the first couple of years of the system's life. The upside is I was snatching homebrew games for 5 bucks a pop for the CV even as late as 1991! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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