Jump to content

Photo

My idea for the perfect NES clone


38 replies to this topic

Poll: What makes the perfect NES clone? (23 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you believe that a the original 6502 is better then some NOAC chip?

  1. Yes, it means 100% of software is compatable (16 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. No, it can only be seen in original hardware (4 votes [8.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  3. Yes, it means all accessories are compatable (8 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  4. Yes, Because an NOAC chip has limits. (12 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  5. No, because it will only support NTSC titles. (2 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  6. Yes, as long as both NTSC and PAL titles are supported. (6 votes [12.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

Do you perfer original hardware or clones?

  1. Original hardware (21 votes [91.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 91.30%

  2. Clones (2 votes [8.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

Would you buy a clone that has both NTSC and ATSC out?

  1. Yes (14 votes [60.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.87%

  2. No (9 votes [39.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 39.13%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#26 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:55 PM

If an ATSC out will not work in real time, then we can atleast use the RP2A03 but the question is this. Is their an NES clone out there that can allow you to sodder the chip to the board, replacing the NOAC chip?

As far as ATSC goes, it's a work in progress.

#27 Wickeycolumbus OFFLINE  

Wickeycolumbus

    River Patroller

  • 4,589 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:16 PM

If an ATSC out will not work in real time, then we can atleast use the RP2A03 but the question is this. Is their an NES clone out there that can allow you to sodder the chip to the board, replacing the NOAC chip?

As far as ATSC goes, it's a work in progress.


For curiosity's sake, do you have any experience with electronics?

You can not just replace an NOAC with an RP2A03 and expect to play NES games. Not only is the NOAC most likely bonded to the board, there is more to the NES than just the RP2A03 (as stated previously...). The NOAC has ALL of the NES hardware on one chip (hence NES On A Chip). The RP2A03 is just the CPU and sound chip.

#28 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:00 AM

An NOAC based clone is not going to give you 100% compatability. For one no one has ever produced a RP2A03 clone, the Retro Duo is the best one out there but it's still NOAC but since it's SNES playabilitly what to do you call that; SNOAC(Super NES on a chip)?

I think when it all comes down, there is the right way and there is the wrong way. NOAC is the wrong way, but I know you playa's want PAL so what about this? Why not both an NTSC RP2A03 and a PAL RP2A07 in one device. US and European games go in on the front and the Famicom titles load from the top. A switch to determine what type of game it is whether it's NTSC or PAL, just flip a signal switch before you flip the power switch. A Famicom input will allow FDS playabilty along with a non-hardwired controller with a speaker for the P2 slot. And if RetroUSB want's to produce a Famicom verison of the 1990 NWC, you just need a standard controller in the P2 port, plus if you want it to be a handheld, we can make new Famicom carts because there smaller.

#29 BDW OFFLINE  

BDW

    River Patroller

  • 2,723 posts
  • Location:Arstozka

Posted Wed Dec 2, 2009 10:23 PM

Because of clones, new software titles are being released on carts for the first time in over 10 years since Nintendo discontinued the NES. That is very rare, not even the Sega Master System or the Atari 7800 is seeing new titles.

You are now officially dead to me.

#30 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:46 AM

Maybe I'm dead to you but not to everyone else. Plus, I finally figured it out.

This is how you make the perfect clone, ATSC output can wait but here is the lowdown. Someone can just build a simple NOAC based clone but full compatabitly can be re-enforced with the addition of a brand new NTSC RP2A03 and a PAL RP2A07. Since a simple NOAC chip might not work, you build a new chip that takes the capabilites of these two chips(RP2A03 and RP2A07) and make it just a simple composite video with mono output, nothing wrong with S-Video if you want that too just to give an additional layer of brightness. Don't bother making it duel mono. Also, have a front loading 72pin NES cart deck and a top 60pin famicom cart deck. This is what should come in the box.

*The Console
*RCA sterio cables(white for mono)
*Composite video cable
*S-Video cable
*RCA audio signal splitter(for duel mono)
*2 Brand new NES controllers
*Brand new NES Zapper
*Power Cable

Guess your all set, now how do you get digital ATSC out to work in real time for the next version?

#31 Bruce Tomlin OFFLINE  

Bruce Tomlin

    River Patroller

  • 3,559 posts
  • CD C9 01
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:40 AM

Guess your all set, now how do you get digital ATSC out to work in real time for the next version?

Why are you so obsessed with this? It was never meant to be used for anything but non-interactive broadcast TV. It is not simply modulating a signal like NTSC RF. If all you want is one cable, that's what HDMI is for.

Even if you do put it in, ATSC will have lag (because you're compressing to MPEG then uncompressing again), and you do not want to play any video game like that. Modern LCD TV sets can be bad enough with lag on their own from video reprocessing.

Trust me, it will suck, and it will suck mightly. And it will not suck cheaply.

And it will suck.

#32 Wickeycolumbus OFFLINE  

Wickeycolumbus

    River Patroller

  • 4,589 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:57 AM

Plus, I finally figured it out.


Great, where are your schematics? ;)

#33 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:52 PM

Schematics? Dude, I'm just the idea man, not the designer. I will say that I wouldn't go with HDMI, because that is just going to push the demand for a higher resolution image. If you implement ATSC, then it has to bypass everything that is confinded to NTSC and PAL because that is what will cause the delay.

Pinnacle Systems PCTV 150e/55e NTSC model video capture card, one that I own. It can take in a composite, S-Video, or RF signal and give you real time MPEG2 encoding so the technology is there but get that out of an NES clone without having to deal with an analog source but use the actual digital source from the cart and real MPEG2 encoding and ATSC output via RF cable.

I think there a schematic, but it won't do all these things mentioned above. I think the design is something that will replace an NES motherboard. One that acts exacly the same as the original hardware and will allow NES software developers of today to actualy test and play their games on the hardware itself instead of having to rely on an Emulator. If you got a schematic for a motherboard that can fit inside the shell of an original NES and work like one then I want to see it.

#34 Exophase OFFLINE  

Exophase

    Space Invader

  • 20 posts

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:37 PM

Just because existing NOACs have problems doesn't mean that a perfect one can't be made. There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept, and if software emulation can be perfected then so can reproduction chips.

Most Famiclones were made to be sold to third world markets for next to nothing. So the NOACs were probably made prioritizing time to market and minimization of development costs over getting the last percentage of game compatibility and perfect sound, etc. From an economical standpoint this makes pretty good sense. The enthusiast community has more time and incentive to do a better job, and new NOACs can probably be distributed on pretty cheap FPGAs.

#35 mugenmidget OFFLINE  

mugenmidget

    Space Invader

  • 45 posts
  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 PM

LMAO are you the "Light of Courage" guy?!

#36 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Fri Jan 1, 2010 9:02 PM

LMAO are you the "Light of Courage" guy?!


Yes, that is me I am the creator of Zelda: The Light of Courage. Why do you want to know?

Exophase, I think that NOAC's can still match the original hardware and on the other hand; it might be an NOAC based clone that delivers realtime ATSC output. We would just have to know how to get a 320x240 MPEG-2 decoder to the point where it's not using the analog signal and coming straight from the digital source in the cart. We might end up with something that will "future proof" NES hardware emulation. In the mean time, I know people want to replace the boards inside their original front loading systems. We already got replacement 72pin connectors, combinde those new parts with new boards and we got a NEW NES and it would be like it's 1985 all over again.

As far as the NOAC deal, we'll work on that too. I think I know how to get around the RetroUSB powerpak deal, what if the powerpak and the clone where one in the same. It can take carts, but at the same time you got a CF card slot on the side that uses a simalar program. This model would only be sold is a registered with the Console Game Builder project license to make "for-profit" software.

Edited by Joe_Cracker, Fri Jan 1, 2010 9:03 PM.


#37 Longhorn Engineer OFFLINE  

Longhorn Engineer

    Dragonstomper

  • 927 posts
  • The Engineer of all things Awesome.
  • Location:Austin, Tx

Posted Fri Jan 1, 2010 10:38 PM

Yes you can totally make a NES based off a FGPA which has been done before. Only really difficult thing is well getting the timing right and having the time to do it.

It took the guy a full year just to do the Main CPU and even then its not 100% perfect.

http://cegt201.bradl...j2006/fpganes/#

If you want to make a 100% NES clone this is the route to go. I personally would rather just make a new PCB and find a replacement for the cart slot and transplant the parts from the NES to the new console.

Oh if you go this route you could probably get it output what ever you want it to. I would vote RGB ;)

Edited by Longhorn Engineer, Fri Jan 1, 2010 10:41 PM.


#38 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:00 PM

That all looks good, his work looks like a good starting block but I would take it further. I would like to see this guy give his NOAC the ability to accept firmware updates that would soon find itself up to %100 compatable with all software. This is one way to do it. The system comes with a cart, but it's not a game at all. That cart would just be the operating system for this specific NES clone, when a new firmware update is ready you download it to a flashdrive and then you plug the flash drive into the system then you insert the OS cart and should give you a message that a flashdrive has been detected and then you if the correct file and then simply on the control pad you would like I think press A or B on the NES controller to start the update proccess.

#39 Joe_Cracker OFFLINE  

Joe_Cracker

    Chopper Commander

  • Topic Starter
  • 120 posts

Posted Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:00 PM

This youtube video was bought to my attention, it's a demonstration with the PowerPak being played on the Retro Duo.

Download This:


With that, do we push on with my challenge? http://www.atariage....y-the-powerpak/




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users