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What can you do with a Kaypro II?


jukingeo

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Hello All,

 

Basically as my title says and NO 'smart' answers like boat anchor, door stopper, counter weight, etc.

 

I have an opportunity to get a working Kaypro II computer for around $30. Setting the way back when clock to 1982, I remember these computers from my youth as we had them in school. We also had Commodore PET computers in school and they received the lions share of use. Very few kids used the Kaypros. However, the Kaypro always interested me because it was a fully self contained portable computer.

 

Now things I remember about the Kaypro (other than the obvious) was that it used a Z-80 processor and it ran the CP/M operating system. Later on I know they started to use DOS, but I think that was with later model Kaypro computers.

 

The things I DON'T remember about the Kaypro was what was it useful for? I do remember wanting to explore the input/output control capabilites of the Kaypro considering the computer could easily be moved from place to place. But, alas, I never got far with the machine. The school ended up getting new PET 8032 computers and IBM PCJr.s and that pretty much sealed the fate for the Kaypros. By the time I got to high school there was nary a Kaypro in site, with the exception of one or two main offices.

 

Fast forwarding to today, I am curious as to what can be done on the Kaypro II. Can it play games? (I don't recall it having graphics abilities though). What can it do sound wise? Can it sequence midi? What can you do in terms of I/O control?

 

I know for a while CP/M was "the choice" OS for a time, but that was quickly squashed with the advent of the IBM PCjr and also the Apple IIe (another computer that came along in my high school years). So the question would be what can you do with CP/M today? Can you run other operating systems on the Z-80 processor?

 

Is the Kaypro II a good model to go with in the Kaypro line? Or should I look out for one of the later models?

 

Anyway, any information, links, guides you can provide that can be of help, by all means please share with me.

 

Thank You,

 

Geo

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Hello All,

 

Basically as my title says and NO 'smart' answers like boat anchor, door stopper, counter weight, etc.

 

I have an opportunity to get a working Kaypro II computer for around $30. Setting the way back when clock to 1982, I remember these computers from my youth as we had them in school. We also had Commodore PET computers in school and they received the lions share of use. Very few kids used the Kaypros. However, the Kaypro always interested me because it was a fully self contained portable computer.

 

Now things I remember about the Kaypro (other than the obvious) was that it used a Z-80 processor and it ran the CP/M operating system. Later on I know they started to use DOS, but I think that was with later model Kaypro computers.

 

The things I DON'T remember about the Kaypro was what was it useful for? I do remember wanting to explore the input/output control capabilites of the Kaypro considering the computer could easily be moved from place to place. But, alas, I never got far with the machine. The school ended up getting new PET 8032 computers and IBM PCJr.s and that pretty much sealed the fate for the Kaypros. By the time I got to high school there was nary a Kaypro in site, with the exception of one or two main offices.

 

Fast forwarding to today, I am curious as to what can be done on the Kaypro II. Can it play games? (I don't recall it having graphics abilities though). What can it do sound wise? Can it sequence midi? What can you do in terms of I/O control?

 

I know for a while CP/M was "the choice" OS for a time, but that was quickly squashed with the advent of the IBM PCjr and also the Apple IIe (another computer that came along in my high school years). So the question would be what can you do with CP/M today? Can you run other operating systems on the Z-80 processor?

 

Is the Kaypro II a good model to go with in the Kaypro line? Or should I look out for one of the later models?

 

Anyway, any information, links, guides you can provide that can be of help, by all means please share with me.

 

Thank You,

 

Geo

 

Well, it would make an excellent text editor or word processor if you had access to Wordstar. I also learned how to program Turbo Pascal in CP/M, and there are several excellent 8-bit C language implementations. Not great for games, although you'd be amazed of the quality and depth of character-based graphic games. Oh, and if you love text adventures, I think almost every major Infocom and Scott Adams adventure games were made for the Kaypro.

 

I'm pretty sure the Kaypro 2 does not have expansion slots, so I doubt there were any MIDI cards or any other expansion cards for that matter. I do know that it was designed to do simple beeps, but using advanced programming techniques, you might be able to even do simple speech synthesis.

 

Who knows, maybe you'll become one of the few masters left of an old computer platform. And I think the world needs more people like that.

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Well, it would make an excellent text editor or word processor if you had access to Wordstar. I also learned how to program Turbo Pascal in CP/M, and there are several excellent 8-bit C language implementations. Not great for games, although you'd be amazed of the quality and depth of character-based graphic games. Oh, and if you love text adventures, I think almost every major Infocom and Scott Adams adventure games were made for the Kaypro.

 

My memory is a bit fuzzy on the machine, so I wasn't 100% sure if there were graphics capabilities or not. I know that some of the 'newer' PET computers (CBM actually) from Commodore DID have graphic capabilities (non text). But text games are fine. There were many good Adventure games that were text based. Also I remember a game called Miner and Munch Man (Pac Man knock off).

 

I DID find on YouTube that someone managed to get an ASCII version of Space Invaders running on the Kaypro, so that got my interest piqued.

 

I remember back in the day that I did most of my BASIC programming on both the PET and Kaypro machines. While the PET computers were far more capable I just found the look and feel of the Kaypro better. It just was a nice chunky machine. I was going to learn CP/M assembly because our WordStar computers in word processing class WERE CP/M based. But pretty much all interest faded in the Kaypro once the Apple IIe and the IBM PCjr became available in my school. By the time I graduated from high school, the word processing classes were using IBM PCJrs and the computer room had mostly Apple IIe's and the MacIntosh. The Mac was new then and they only had 2 machines. Needless to say because of the gui interface, it was VERY hard to get on the Macs.

 

I'm pretty sure the Kaypro 2 does not have expansion slots, so I doubt there were any MIDI cards or any other expansion cards for that matter. I do know that it was designed to do simple beeps, but using advanced programming techniques, you might be able to even do simple speech synthesis.

 

That is what I was wondering too, if you could hook up a speech processor to it. The Kaypro does have a parallel port and a serial port. Since the Kaypro is only an 8bit machine, all of the data lines should be available at the parallel port. So in essence the parallel port IS the expansion slot.

 

I think really what I would like to do with the Kaypro is to use it for I/O control applications. Because the computer is a portable, I could easily move it around. To make myself clearer, one application is for chasing lights. I know that this is something that could easily be done with a BASIC stamp...BUT stamps have very limited storage capacity.

 

What I would like to do is find out how to put a hard drive into a Kaypro. I know that some of the Kaypros came with one. With a hard drive, I could put tons of info onto the machine. So then the question would come up is if I could put a hard drive in the Kaypro II. I know it initially didn't come with one. I think the Kaypro 10 has the hard drive.

 

Who knows, maybe you'll become one of the few masters left of an old computer platform. And I think the world needs more people like that.

 

I don't know, I guess it is one of those nostaliga things. I find the Kaypro appealing mostly because of it's looks. It is built like a tank and as time has it, it lasts a very long time too. Many Kaypros are STILL fully functional. The circuit board looks easy to service too. But the fact that it is a fully portable computer is also an interest. It would be something that I wouldn't be leaving set up, but something that I could set up and use where ever I felt like it and then nicely store it away in my closet when not in use.

 

I did get to wondering about the graphics capabilities because I know that many older video games (such as Pac Man) did use a Z80 processor.

 

The only thing I have noticed is that I am having trouble finding any CP/M stuff on the web. I figured I would find tons of info, but alas, nothing. I can't even find the CP/M 2.2 OS on a download which is what the Kaypro needs.

 

Another question is the floppies. Can you still get 5.25" disks nowadays?

 

Anyway, thanx for the info. Thusfar you are the only one that responded. I am hoping I can get some more info though.

 

Geo

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Uhhhh... it's a luggable CP/M machine. And it uses floppy disks. There's not much more to say other than it had a proper 24x80 text screen, unlike Osborne. And it used soft-sectored floppies, unlike Northstar and Heath. Hard-sectored floppies weren't common even back in the day, and should be a real pain to find now.

 

The Kaypro 10 had a 10 meg hard disk, making it much nicer to use.

 

There was also a later 8088 Kaypro that ran MS/DOS.

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Uhhhh... it's a luggable CP/M machine. And it uses floppy disks. There's not much more to say other than it had a proper 24x80 text screen, unlike Osborne. And it used soft-sectored floppies, unlike Northstar and Heath. Hard-sectored floppies weren't common even back in the day, and should be a real pain to find now.

 

So basically the CP/M operating system could only handle basic calculation functions and word processing? More then likely it could handle data functions as well. What I am curious about is if it could handle input/output control functions. I know it didn't have graphics capabilities as we know them today, but back in school we did have the Commodore Pet and CBM machines. These were text based machines as well, but some models could do rudimentary graphics works.

 

The Kaypro 10 had a 10 meg hard disk, making it much nicer to use.

 

There was also a later 8088 Kaypro that ran MS/DOS.

 

Yeah, that was the Kaypro 16 which is seemingly difficult to find. It is also nearly 10 pounds heavier than a Kaypro II. I have come across the Kaypro 10 a couple of times, but usually the issue is a failed hard drive. So I am not sure if there a suitable replacement for these. Or what would be better is if a hard drive could be added to the Kaypro II. The Kaypro II seems to be the most common machine and it could be easily had for less than $50.

 

I don't anticipate doing massive work with it, but if I could use it for input/output control, I might be worth it to pick one up. But therein lies another problem...finding software for it. I looked all over on-line and really can't find too much in regards to CP/M. If I know of a good source to check out to see what is available in CP/M and if I like what I see then I will pick a Kaypro up.

 

Thanx,

Geo

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Uhhhh... it's a luggable CP/M machine. And it uses floppy disks. There's not much more to say other than it had a proper 24x80 text screen, unlike Osborne. And it used soft-sectored floppies, unlike Northstar and Heath. Hard-sectored floppies weren't common even back in the day, and should be a real pain to find now.

 

So basically the CP/M operating system could only handle basic calculation functions and word processing? More then likely it could handle data functions as well. What I am curious about is if it could handle input/output control functions. I know it didn't have graphics capabilities as we know them today, but back in school we did have the Commodore Pet and CBM machines. These were text based machines as well, but some models could do rudimentary graphics works.

 

The Kaypro 10 had a 10 meg hard disk, making it much nicer to use.

 

There was also a later 8088 Kaypro that ran MS/DOS.

 

Yeah, that was the Kaypro 16 which is seemingly difficult to find. It is also nearly 10 pounds heavier than a Kaypro II. I have come across the Kaypro 10 a couple of times, but usually the issue is a failed hard drive. So I am not sure if there a suitable replacement for these. Or what would be better is if a hard drive could be added to the Kaypro II. The Kaypro II seems to be the most common machine and it could be easily had for less than $50.

 

I don't anticipate doing massive work with it, but if I could use it for input/output control, I might be worth it to pick one up. But therein lies another problem...finding software for it. I looked all over on-line and really can't find too much in regards to CP/M. If I know of a good source to check out to see what is available in CP/M and if I like what I see then I will pick a Kaypro up.

 

Thanx,

Geo

 

If you are still looking for CP/M disk images, join the Yahoo! CP/M group. I don't know the procedure for making them into actual disks, but I'm sure that someone there can instruct you, or maybe sell you some. They helped me when I was looking for Apple Z80 Turbo Pascal disks.

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If you are still looking for CP/M disk images, join the Yahoo! CP/M group. I don't know the procedure for making them into actual disks, but I'm sure that someone there can instruct you, or maybe sell you some. They helped me when I was looking for Apple Z80 Turbo Pascal disks.

 

Yeah, that was another issue I was thinking of. I don't recall if I have a PC 5 1/4" drive laying around anymore. I know that in the course of this past summer I tossed out an old computer that had one. I am not sure if a modern computer's bios would support it either.

 

The funny thing is that I am not even 100% sure if they still make 5 1/4" disks. But anyway, thanx for the tip off on the Yahoo CP/M Group, I will check it out later.

 

Edit: Apparently new 5.25" disks ARE still available.

 

Geo

Edited by jukingeo
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  • 4 weeks later...

I don't know how I missed this thread. I have a whole archive of public domain Kaypro software. My dad was a kaypro computer club president in the 80's. I wish I knew how to transfer all the software over to something on more permanent storage.

 

The original Kaypro II was a pretty limited machine. The later 4 and 2x were a bit faster, had updated graphics capabilities and expanded disk capacity. I'm quite knowledgeable about kaypros if anyone ever needs info. I grew up using one.

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  • 12 years later...

What I used it for back in the day?
Car Wars - using wordstar to create sheets, and perfect calc to work out the designs.

Traveller - subsector generator. in mbasic. Character sheets in Wordstar.

SpaceMaster - perfect calc. Not well automated, but simply adding the points up was a serious timesaver.

 

Several guys a bit older than I have done extensive collections of kaypro software

 

The older I get, the more I realize how focusing  the lack of distractions presented by it were.

The game Ladder is essentially similar to Lode Runner, and is freaking awesome

Catchum is a pacman clone in text mode... and it is tricky. The better the model, the harder it is.

 

 

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I had some Kaypro and other CP/M at one time. I'm hoping to get back into CP/M just for the fun of it on my Commodore 128. CP/M will not use most of that computers capabilities.

 

Check eBay. You should be able to find disks, books, and almost any compatible hardware.

 

I don't know if it's available for the II, but there is a Kaypro version of the FreHD, an SD drive originally for the TRS-80.

 

I remember playing Space Invaders and Clones on the Kaypro II or 2 in my high school computer class. I'm sure it used character based graphics, but it was pretty good. There are rumors of high resolution graphics boards in old magazines, maybe or maybe not for the II, but you are more likely to find a needle in a haystack, Win the lottery without buying a ticket, and get on the internet with a Timex Sinclair 1000, than to find one of those boards on ebay. Finding software that uses it is even harder. 

 

The best way to add graphics to a Kaypro is to get one of those old terminals with vector based graphics. Some were even color. The resolution was shockingly high - somthing like 1024X768. CP/M can be made to use a serial port or the built in terminal. You could set it up like a mobile device with a dock.

 

This might help:

 

archive.org/details/kayproprofiles

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Kaypros were real workhorses in my job back in the early 80s, as we used to lug them around to different testing sites and log various types of data. Had both an external clock for time-stamping the data and a modem for uploading results to the mainframe. Used Wordstar to write reports, PerfectCalc as a spreadsheet and dbase II as well.

 

On weekends we could take it home to play games or just mess around with. I remember Ladder, Zork, a chess game and a few others. Turbo Pascal was great for programming, and one of my early programming efforts was to calculate and track our golf league handicaps and assign foursomes. We used that program for over 20 years.

 

I still have 4 or 5 Kaypros around, but at the moment can't find the boot disks. One is still in the box and has a stack of manuals about a foot thick, making the package weigh about 60 pounds.

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Ah, the Kaypro II. I was handed one for free by a classmate back in grade school ('94). He lugged it to school, I lugged it around 'til the end of the day. His family thought it was broken, but it just needed a new fuse. After replacing said fuse, I... had abso-Scoobly no idea what to do with the thing. It was my introduction to CP/M, and while I found it fascinating to muck about with a new (to me) operating system, there wasn't any software that early teens me was interested in. At all. A word processor or two, a handful of "text graphic" games, and that was about it.

 

Honestly the most entertaining part of it all was listening to the disk drives crunch and chunk around in their obnoxiously noisy way (compared to my Apple IIc, anyway) and the sounds of the text scrolling across and down the screen.

 

Had I kept the machine to this day, in fact, my only use for it would be to make high-quality recordings of the aforementioned noises, just for nostalgia's sake.

Edited by DeathAdderSF
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On 1/20/2010 at 8:24 AM, jukingeo said:

The only thing I have noticed is that I am having trouble finding any CP/M stuff on the web. I figured I would find tons of info, but alas, nothing. I can't even find the CP/M 2.2 OS on a download which is what the Kaypro needs.

CPM resources: https://curlie.org/en/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/CPM

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