Harmony - questions & observations

[eegad]

Greetings all. I received my Harmony Cart a week ago, but only just had time to sit down and really play with it the past 2 days....

 

First I would like to say that this is a VERY cool product. To be able to put every game on one cart that plays on a real Atari is amazing. After my brief time with it, I have 2 questions and 1 bit of feedback/request.

 

 

My most important question is in regards to games that don't seem to work for me. I've only tried playing maybe 30 or so at this point, but I did find a couple that don't work. The main one that I recall at the moment is Moon Patrol. Trying to play it resulted in a dead black screen. So I tried renaming it with an .F8 extension (based on a list I found online, I believe that is the correct bank switch scheme for it, correct?). Same black screen. So I tried re-downloading the ROM from AtariAge. Same black screen. If it matters, this is on an NTSC original heavy sixer model....I did not try it on my light sixer yet. Does Moon Patrol work for anyone? With what extension and on what kind of hardware? And a more general "part 2" of this question.....maybe we can start a list here of games that don't work, or that need a particular extension on the file to work???

 

 

My next question is more of a "curiosity" question. What does everyone think the advent of Harmony will do to the "collectibility" of "real Atari carts", and their prices on the open market? Was just wondering about this because I just got back into Atari the past 2 years. Have picked up a few cart bundles on ebay and from atari2600.com the past 2 years.....to play games I never had or knew of as a kid. I wanted to play them on a "real" system rather than on an emulator. But now that I can load everything on one Harmony cart, why would I bother buying the "real" cart anymore??? Just curious for opinions of others.

 

 

Any finally my one minor bit of feedback about Harmony itself it (I hesitate to call it a 'complaint'). It's the menu. It works just fine, but is kind of hard to read. Now, yes, I realize the limitations of Atari graphics, so I *am* impressed that they were able to make a menu of the game names like that work at all! But I also can't help but think it would be easier to read if it was just in one solid color instead of the pulsating rainbow effect. Maybe a retro "green screen" type of look??? Don't know if this is a 'flashable' type of thing or hard-wired into the cart, but just thought I'd toss in my 2 cents.

 

In any case, to the developers of Harmony - a very impressive job indeed!

[+thegoldenband]

I have no affiliation with the folks that made the Harmony cart, but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that every classic-era cart except for a fairly obscure 64k multicart is supposed to work. If no one else replies I'll try firing Moon Patrol up shortly on my 4-switcher. Have you tried a ROM from a different source, like one of ROM Hunter's collections?

 

I definitely am finding that my urge to collect carts, especially loose carts, has taken a big hit with the advent of Harmony. I suspect many others will have the same reaction. Then again, much as I appreciate the aesthetic appeal of a clean CIB copy of a game, I'm not a collector per se; those folks probably won't be affected.

 

I had the same problem with the menu -- well, sort of: the text was wavy (i.e. oscillating horizontally a lot) on the small cheapo TV I was using, which looked pretty "psychedelic". I believe the color/BW switch will do the trick for you; it doesn't make the colors solid, but it makes them stable.

Edited January 21, 2010 by thegoldenband

[+batari]

If anyone finds binaries that don't work, please post them so we can evaluate them. All proper legacy binaries except Megaboy should work. If any don't, we can probably figure out why and fix Harmony (or the binaries.)

 

So far, I have had a few reports of binaries that didn't work and they were all either bad dumps or they were F8 binaries with swapped banks.

 

As for the bad dumps, they are often the result of incorrect startup vectors in the first bank. It is possible to make Harmony work with these if they work in an emulator (if always starting in the second bank won't affect compatibility with other games.)

 

As for the F8 binaries with swapped banks, we've talked about this and the only solution we've come up with is to record MD5 sums for all of the offending binaries and add them to Harmony firmware. I don't like this idea as it takes space that could be used for other things and the problem is really with the binaries themselves.

[Monk]

If anyone finds binaries that don't work, please post them so we can evaluate them. All proper legacy binaries except Megaboy should work. If any don't, we can probably figure out why and fix Harmony (or the binaries.)

 

Yes, I have found a couple of games that don't work so far. I did find more with the previous unit but with the new one some of the games now work, and I haven't yet checked all those that didn't work previously.

 

But these games definitely won't work with Harmony Cart:

 

- Lancelot (I only have 'Lancelot.bin')

- Defender II (16k version)

 

I must note that the regular Defender II works just fine.

 

Harmony Cart is a great and cool thing, I really like tinkering with it now! (as there's no more interference now, hehe)

 

I would really like to know how to get Lancelot working, as it is a very neat little game that I like a lot.

 

- Monk

[cd-w]

But these games definitely won't work with Harmony Cart:

- Lancelot (I only have 'Lancelot.bin')

- Defender II (16k version)

 

Can you attach the binaries here? It is difficult to know what files you are referring to otherwise. In general, anything that works automatically with Stella should work with the Harmony (since the Harmony uses the same ROM auto-detection mechanism).

 

Thanks,

Chris

[Monk]

Can you attach the binaries here? It is difficult to know what files you are referring to otherwise. In general, anything that works automatically with Stella should work with the Harmony (since the Harmony uses the same ROM auto-detection mechanism).

 

Yes, I understand.

 

It was probably a bad dump, because it works with Stella, but not Harmony Cart, and I found that the real name of the game is 'Sir Lancelot' - and I had many versions of that in my directories in the Harmony Cart, and I got one of them working (I didn't test the others), so never mind the Lancelot.

 

Here, I tried to attach the Defender 2 16k version that didn't work with Harmony Cart (I tested it again just to be sure)

 

Defender 2 (16K version).bin

 

Maybe the same thing applies to the Defender II though, that it's just a bad dump.. I can try to find some other version of that 16k version.

 

- Monk

[Buzbard]

Can you attach the binaries here? It is difficult to know what files you are referring to otherwise. In general, anything that works automatically with Stella should work with the Harmony (since the Harmony uses the same ROM auto-detection mechanism).

 

Yes, I understand.

 

It was probably a bad dump, because it works with Stella, but not Harmony Cart, and I found that the real name of the game is 'Sir Lancelot' - and I had many versions of that in my directories in the Harmony Cart, and I got one of them working (I didn't test the others), so never mind the Lancelot.

 

Here, I tried to attach the Defender 2 16k version that didn't work with Harmony Cart (I tested it again just to be sure)

 

Defender 2 (16K version).bin

 

Maybe the same thing applies to the Defender II though, that it's just a bad dump.. I can try to find some other version of that 16k version.

 

- Monk

 

Looks like a bad dump. If you split that file into 2 8k files and compare those 2 chunks, there are 6 bytes staring at address FFA that are different. But the second 8k chunk is a perfect match for the 8k Defender II file.

[tkarner]

Yes, the Harmony cart is awesome. It's like having a hard disk in your 2600.

 

By the way, Moon Patrol works fine for me, no file extension changes needed.

[+Nathan Strum]

Yes, the Harmony cart is awesome. It's like having a hard disk in your 2600.

Hmmm... that's an interesting thought. Guess we could've just used a pre-existing label.

 

[eegad]

If anyone finds binaries that don't work, please post them so we can evaluate them.

 

 

I'll attach my Moon Patrol in case you'd like to take a look. This file does work fine in Stella for me (though I'll note that the version of Stella I use is from a year or two ago...not the latest version). But on my heavy sixer, it produces just a black screen.

 

My Congo Bongo also produced a black screen like Moon Patrol, but changing the file extension to .F8 fixed that one.

Moon Patrol (1983) (Atari).bin

Edited January 21, 2010 by eegad

[cd-w]

I'll attach my Moon Patrol in case you'd like to take a look. This file does work fine in Stella for me (though I'll note that the version of Stella I use is from a year or two ago...not the latest version). But on my heavy sixer, it produces just a black screen.

 

It works OK on my Harmony cart. Can you let me know which version of the cart and BIOS that you are using?

 

Chris

[eegad]

Okay, I've got a challenge for all of the smart and knowledgeable Atari people out there. Read the summary of my situation below, but what it really boils down to is that I'm really REALLY curious to know what differences in hardware exist between different atari 2600 consoles (slight voltage differences? slightly different addressing issues? timing tolerances?). Apologies if this topic is evolving into not strictly a Harmony issue....

 

My Hamony cart is the regular unit with 1.03 of the software and a 2 gig PNY card plugged into it. I have a heavy sixer and a light sixer, and maybe 100 or so old carts. All of the carts work fine on both the heavy and the light. Including my Moon Patrol cart.

 

As mentioned earlier in this topic, Moon Patrol is just a dead black screen for me on Harmony on my heavy. After it was mentioned that Moon Patrol worked fine on someone else's Harmony, I figured I'd dig out my light sixer and try it for the heck of it. Guess what? Moon Patrol works fine on the light sixer, but will not work on the heavy. A bunch of other games I've tried playing so far work on both systems (I'll follow-up if I discover any others that don't work as I play more). So does anyone have any guesses (just to satisfy my curiousity) as to what difference in hardware could exist between my two units to cause the same thing to work on one but not the other???

 

And, oddly enough, this is the 2nd time in several weeks that I've run into this type of issue. I've never had such a thing happen with old original-era carts. But for christmas this year, I got myself the Stella's Stocking (64k) cart. It does the OPPOSITE of my Moon Patrol problem. Stella Stocking works just fine on the heavy, but on the light it shows the first initial intro screen and then just locks up (can't get past it to start any of the games).

 

 

Is this bizarre or what??!?! Anybody have any ideas???

[cd-w]

Is this bizarre or what??!?! Anybody have any ideas???

 

It does sound strange - the Harmony cart and games should work equally well on every kind of 2600 console.

Try cleaning your cartridge connectors, and swapping the power supplies between consoles, to see if that makes a difference.

 

Chris

[+stephena]

Can you attach the binaries here? It is difficult to know what files you are referring to otherwise. In general, anything that works automatically with Stella should work with the Harmony (since the Harmony uses the same ROM auto-detection mechanism).

 

Yes, I understand.

 

It was probably a bad dump, because it works with Stella, but not Harmony Cart, and I found that the real name of the game is 'Sir Lancelot' - and I had many versions of that in my directories in the Harmony Cart, and I got one of them working (I didn't test the others), so never mind the Lancelot.

 

Here, I tried to attach the Defender 2 16k version that didn't work with Harmony Cart (I tested it again just to be sure)

 

Defender 2 (16K version).bin

 

Maybe the same thing applies to the Defender II though, that it's just a bad dump.. I can try to find some other version of that 16k version.

 

- Monk

Actually, this ROM no longer works in Stella 3.0 either. If you'll be comparing ROMs on Harmony and Stella, I recommend you upgrade to the very latest version.

[eegad]

 

It does sound strange - the Harmony cart and games should work equally well on every kind of 2600 console.

Try cleaning your cartridge connectors, and swapping the power supplies between consoles, to see if that makes a difference.

 

Chris

 

 

Hi. I had also posted in the main 2600 forum asking if anyone had an experience where a cart would work on one console but not another. A couple of others have also experienced similar issues, including one person who also had games on a harmony cart that would not run on a heavy sixer, but would run on a light sixer. See post :

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/156884-games-that-run-on-one-but-not-another/

[eegad]

I had the same problem with the menu....... I believe the color/BW switch will do the trick for you; it doesn't make the colors solid, but it makes them stable.

 

Hey, thanks for that tip. Yep, I like it non-pulsing like that much better!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Hey, thanks for that tip. Yep, I like it non-pulsing like that much better!

Since so many seem to prefer the color cycling disabled, maybe I should reverse the B/W switch function and disable color cycling it by default (Color).

 

 

BTW: Never be afraid to try the console switches.

[RevEng]

I feel like an ingrate even mentioning it, but IMO a non-flashing default would make Harmony perfect.

[orangest]

I got my Harmony yesterday, and agree with the consensus that it is possibly the greatest thing that's ever been conceived.

 

I was wondering if anyone else had a problem with the title screen of Centipede. Once I hit the fire button, everything is OK, but the title screen doesn't show up at all. I re-downloaded the rom from here to double check, and I'm using it on a 7800 if that makes any difference.

[Monk]

Actually, this ROM no longer works in Stella 3.0 either. If you'll be comparing ROMs on Harmony and Stella, I recommend you upgrade to the very latest version.

 

I see. Right now I am trying to get that Congo Bongo working.. works with the earlier Stella, but not Harmony Cart (tried several different ROM files)

 

Well, I better stop comparing ROMs then.. I rather have them working with Stella than upgrade to a version where they don't work anymore.. at least I have -some- place where they work then.

 

Kinda curiously backwards though to recommend to upgrade to something that stops things from working..

 

- Monk

[Monk]

Hey, thanks for that tip. Yep, I like it non-pulsing like that much better!

Since so many seem to prefer the color cycling disabled, maybe I should reverse the B/W switch function and disable color cycling it by default (Color).

 

By the way, is there a way to take the color cycling off -altogether-, I mean - now it only seems that it's still there but just in a pause mode. Like, solid letters and numbers instead of 'shaded' ones, as the shading always makes some rows less clear and some rows more clear even with the cycling off (that's why I prefer to keep it on, so the net effect is more readable overall text)

 

Just an idea.. either full cycle or solid colors - that'd be really a perfect solution imho.

 

- Monk

[Thomas Jentzsch]

By the way, is there a way to take the color cycling off -altogether-, I mean - now it only seems that it's still there but just in a pause mode. Like, solid letters and numbers instead of 'shaded' ones, as the shading always makes some rows less clear and some rows more clear even with the cycling off (that's why I prefer to keep it on, so the net effect is more readable overall text)

 

Just an idea.. either full cycle or solid colors - that'd be really a perfect solution imho.

Uhm, no.

 

Color cycling/shading is a faithful retro effect and I want this to be a typical retro device. If that makes the menu harder readable that is faithfully retro too.

 

But we made the colors brighter for the next BIOS.

[+stephena]

Actually, this ROM no longer works in Stella 3.0 either. If you'll be comparing ROMs on Harmony and Stella, I recommend you upgrade to the very latest version.

 

I see. Right now I am trying to get that Congo Bongo working.. works with the earlier Stella, but not Harmony Cart (tried several different ROM files)

 

Well, I better stop comparing ROMs then.. I rather have them working with Stella than upgrade to a version where they don't work anymore.. at least I have -some- place where they work then.

 

Kinda curiously backwards though to recommend to upgrade to something that stops things from working..

 

- Monk

As for the last part, it's not really strange from a certain POV. The ROM should have *never* worked in Stella; the fact that it did was a bug in the emulation. Or put another way, the ROM is in error, and Stella didn't recognize that fact. So, upgrading Stella will get you the more accurate emulation, and finding a correctly dumped ROM will take care of the other part.

 

Of course, I understand that if your POV is to simply get the ROM you already have working, then it makes no sense to upgrade.

 

I still stand by my original statement, though. Both Stella and Harmony strive for completely accurate emulation of correctly dumped ROMs only. If you're going to compare them, you need to do so with the latest version of each. Older versions of Stella are not accurate in many ways. This is one of the main areas I concentrate on with each new release.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I still stand by my original statement, though. Both Stella and Harmony strive for completely accurate emulation of correctly dumped ROMs only.

/signed

[+Random Terrain]

Has the Rom Hunter collection been tested? If so, and they all work, we could forget about other ROM collections and just use those. (Too bad the background color makes the text too hard to read on that Atarimania page.)