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Flashback 2+ for preorder on Atari.com, get a free T-shirt


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#76 TrekkiELO OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:04 PM

My question: Atari Climber was removed ... for LEGAL REASONS? Atari Climber was a renaming of Debro's game Climber 5. Care to explain the legal reasons?


Which was not Debro's game. He ported it from a game that appeared in Compute! magazine. There were licensing issues with the Compute! owners. This is one of the prime reasons I keep warning authors and others on here about not working with properties you don't own, or getting permission first. It always come back to bite you. In this case, it also bit us.
Hence, no Atari Climber.


According to this guy, Compute! is now public domain, unless he is wrong or something has changed since March of 2008.

History on the COMPUTE! Gazette Series of Magazines: Compute Publications Formed on 1/8/1979

COMPUTE! Magazine, in May 1988 changed its focus to PC's and their clones. In the early 1990's COMPUTE! was sold to General Media. Ziff Davis bought COMPUTE!'s assets in 1994 and General Media had stopped publications before the sale. Compute!'s Gazette Magazine ceased publication entirely after 1995. Compute Publications International, Ltd. was administratively dissolved and suspended, and in March 2008, Ziff Davis Media, Inc. announced it had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, and subsequently dissolved. All contents of the COMPUTE! Gazette series have fallen into Public Domain.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160397344297

Rick Vendl II

#77 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:11 PM

According to this guy, Compute! is now public domain, unless he is wrong or something has changed since March of 2008.

History on the COMPUTE! Gazette Series of Magazines: Compute Publications Formed on 1/8/1979

COMPUTE! Magazine, in May 1988 changed its focus to PC's and their clones. In the early 1990's COMPUTE! was sold to General Media. Ziff Davis bought COMPUTE!'s assets in 1994 and General Media had stopped publications before the sale. Compute!'s Gazette Magazine ceased publication entirely after 1995. Compute Publications International, Ltd. was administratively dissolved and suspended, and in March 2008, Ziff Davis Media, Inc. announced it had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, and subsequently dissolved. All contents of the COMPUTE! Gazette series have fallen into Public Domain.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160397344297

Rick Vendl II


It's an ebay seller trying to justify selling illegal copies of compute on disk, not exactly a reliable source of information. He's wrong, Ziff Davis is still there and restructured under the Chapter 11. It did not dissolve:

http://www.thedeal.c...silent_exit.php

Nothing is in the public domain. We and Atari legal actually had dealings with the current properties owner regarding Climber, it is not in the public domain nor is Compute!.

Edited by wgungfu, Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:24 PM.


#78 gambler172 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:15 PM

Hi Guys
Such a sh.....They do not ship to germany....
I want one with the Tshirt. :( :(
greetings Walter

#79 batari OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:20 PM

Batari wrote that he can see an option for Canada shipping, but when I look at the web page from here in BC, all I see is a message stating "This offer is not available in your area".
Perhaps they will add foreign orders in the future but I won't hold my breath...

Probably a programming error. I'd email their tech support (and ask them about the T-shirt thing for me :) ) I'll bet if you ordered from a USA IP address to Canada, it would work.

#80 Hornpipe2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:51 PM

It would seem rigged but maybe its designed to only give a win to like a certain number of clicks? Like the 500th click or something?


Here's what it says at the bottom:

Prize wheel does not represent the actual odds of winning a prize. See the Official Rules for complete odds disclosure. Click here if you can't see the game.


Essentially they have already determined the 300 winners and the wheel is just a gimmick to give you something to do. It's probably rigged to only give away one at certain times of day.

#81 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:05 PM

Hmmm. No pre-orders available to Canada?..wtf?

Here's another thing to consider. We all know the best games for the 2600 were developed later on, and also the Activision games. I don't care who calls me a complainer...the main complaint from every person I know who 'would' have bought one of the FB2's was that it didn't have any of the great games they remembered, other than the two (now missing) Activision ones.

Why not just take the hit and pay the license for those classic games, Activision or otherwise, and make a truly "plus" version of the FB2? It would increase the demographic AND get previous fans to buy a new one because it offers something truly new, not a few sports games that were lackluster anyway.

I can't blame Kurt or those that manufactured the FB2+, because I know they would have loved to have incorporated more games and features if it were truly up to them. But how long do retrogamers need to keep putting out money for something so that, hopefully, "someday" we get something we really want, like an FB3?

The lack of money spent on licensing only hurts FB2+ sales. The homebrews on the FB2 were great, and there's plenty more where that came from. But why should I act surprised when the bottom line is the only concern to "the powers that be"...

...did I mention you can't preorder it in Canada? :roll:

#82 Havok69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:28 PM

Why not just take the hit and pay the license for those classic games, Activision or otherwise, and make a truly "plus" version of the FB2? It would increase the demographic AND get previous fans to buy a new one because it offers something truly new, not a few sports games that were lackluster anyway.

I can't blame Kurt or those that manufactured the FB2+, because I know they would have loved to have incorporated more games and features if it were truly up to them. But how long do retrogamers need to keep putting out money for something so that, hopefully, "someday" we get something we really want, like an FB3?

The lack of money spent on licensing only hurts FB2+ sales. The homebrews on the FB2 were great, and there's plenty more where that came from. But why should I act surprised when the bottom line is the only concern to "the powers that be"...


You guys that are complaining about the non-Atari games just don't get it. The licensing fees would most likely double the cost of the unit, and hurt the bottom line. Let's be frank; there is only a small percentage of people that will buy this, so Atari made the decision to keeps costs down and most importantly, keep the price of the FB down. This is nothing more than an impulse buy for people. If you guys got your wish to include Namco, Activision and Williams games, then would you still be so happy to purchase the FB if it was double the price, or more?

The increased price would take this out of the impulse buy category, and would definitely hurt total number of units sold. My only wish for this was that they went with ALL completely different games. I'm probably not going to buy one because I have a FB2, there just isn't enough reason for me to buy basically the same thing again.

#83 MIKE5200 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:33 PM

I was wondering if they fix Millipede the score goes back to 0 after playing a game? I guess were up to Rev D :D

#84 jaybird3rd OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:36 PM

If you've looked over the FB2+ lineup and find yourself wishing that <insert favorite game here> was included, you might want to look into having a cartridge slot added to yours when it finally arrives. That way, you can add whatever game you like and still enjoy the ones that are built into the unit. If it's only one game that you want, and if adding a cartridge slot and cutting a hole in the FB2+ case is too much trouble, pull the board out of the cartridge and solder it in directly.

#85 akirahedgehog OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:42 PM

I'm really hoping the $15 S&H is a joke? No way I'm paying $45 for a mostly unchanged Flashback 2.

#86 MattelAquarius OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:49 PM

I'm really hoping the $15 S&H is a joke? No way I'm paying $45 for a mostly unchanged Flashback 2.



Buy 2, then they're only $37.50, each. ;-)

#87 jaybird3rd OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:50 PM

I'm really hoping the $15 S&H is a joke? No way I'm paying $45 for a mostly unchanged Flashback 2.

Then wait until it's available through a retail store so you don't have to pay for shipping. What's the problem?

#88 DeadlyDiskKun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:52 PM

It will prolly be $35+ in store, so waiting for a possible store release may not be worth it.

#89 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:53 PM

I don't understand the negativity towards the product. If you want <insert game name here> go out and buy the game. If this product brings more exposure to retro computers/consoles and the brand name we all support its a good thing.

At the end of the day the product has to be made for a price point and in a certain time frame. That's true of anything manufactured. When you start adding royalties for game X, Y or Z it may seem a small cost at first but it gets magnified down the distribution chain as everybody adds their profit on. This either pushes the product out of the desired price range (thus potentially limiting sales) or Legacy Engineering make less money per unit sold because they have to take a smaller cut. Neither of those are acceptable in my opinion.

#90 onmode-ky OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:10 PM

It would seem rigged but maybe its designed to only give a win to like a certain number of clicks? Like the 500th click or something?


Here's what it says at the bottom:

Prize wheel does not represent the actual odds of winning a prize. See the Official Rules for complete odds disclosure. Click here if you can't see the game.


Essentially they have already determined the 300 winners and the wheel is just a gimmick to give you something to do. It's probably rigged to only give away one at certain times of day.


I don't think that's entirely accurate. If I interpreted the description right, what is predetermined are the 300 periods of time within which the first person to play the game will be a winner. Presumably, these 300 periods of time are spread out across the full contest's duration of eligibility. Note that the contest ends at the beginning of next year, meaning that the winning periods (of unknown length) are roughly 28 hours apart on average, assuming the contest started around the 20th. My point is that this is quite a long-duration setup, and I for one don't think the rewards are worth trying my luck until 2011. Unless your budget is unbelievably tight, it would be a better use of time just to buy a Flashback 2+ or track done the other prizes independently. Considering the prizes' monetary values, I don't think they were custom-made for this contest.

Speaking of the prize values, I find it ironic that the grand prize is not only twice as numerous but also valued less than the first prize. Weird.

I'm undecided on getting the Flashback 2+. While I'd like to support the development of further, more differentiated Flashback products, I can't really justify the purchase of games I already have on the 2005 Flashback 2 or games I don't want to play (sports games). Also, there are 0 people in my vicinity who would be interested in one, and I'm not a modder. The T-shirt at Atari.com is nice, but I'm not paying $45 for a T-shirt.

onmode-ky

#91 ataridave OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:17 PM

This looks really sweet!! I could probably fit into the XL T-shirt; I usually wear XXL, but it all depends upon how "big" this XL shirt is made. And I echo the comments about having this thing modded if you don't like the game selection. As far as Activision games go, just pick up Activision Anthology for the PS2, or the GBA.

Edited by dave4shmups, Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:21 PM.


#92 Havok69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:46 PM

Modding isn't the answer depending on the game you want. For example, Star Raiders - won't work in a modded FB.

I'm all set with my light sixer, Harmony cart and FB2. Hopefully this rehash of the same product generates enough sales to justify a FB3.

#93 mckafka99 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:58 PM

The way I look at it is, this is little more than the cost of 2 new Joysticks, so it seems totally worth the $30, regardless of the fact that the game lineup isnt much changed from FB2. If it helps the momentum towards a FB3 - all the better! :)

(btw -bring on AdvIII - cant wait!)

Edited by mckafka99, Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:59 PM.


#94 krupkaj OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:13 PM

Hi Guys
Such a sh.....They do not ship to germany....
I want one with the Tshirt. :( :(
greetings Walter

They do not ship to Czech either... :sad: :(

#95 garyd97 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:15 PM

The way I look at it is, this is little more than the cost of 2 new Joysticks, so it seems totally worth the $30, regardless of the fact that the game lineup isnt much changed from FB2. If it helps the momentum towards a FB3 - all the better! :)

(btw -bring on AdvIII - cant wait!)


Are these joysticks the same ones as the original FB2 ?

#96 garyd97 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:16 PM

Modding isn't the answer depending on the game you want. For example, Star Raiders - won't work in a modded FB.

I'm all set with my light sixer, Harmony cart and FB2. Hopefully this rehash of the same product generates enough sales to justify a FB3.


If I were to have one modded, would it be able to play 7800 games as well as 2600?

#97 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:20 PM

You guys that are complaining about the non-Atari games just don't get it. The licensing fees would most likely double the cost of the unit, and hurt the bottom line. Let's be frank; there is only a small percentage of people that will buy this, so Atari made the decision to keeps costs down and most importantly, keep the price of the FB down. This is nothing more than an impulse buy for people. If you guys got your wish to include Namco, Activision and Williams games, then would you still be so happy to purchase the FB if it was double the price, or more?

The increased price would take this out of the impulse buy category, and would definitely hurt total number of units sold. My only wish for this was that they went with ALL completely different games. I'm probably not going to buy one because I have a FB2, there just isn't enough reason for me to buy basically the same thing again.


I'd personally like to see just how much more the licensing fees would add to the cost of the unit. I paid around 40 CDN for mine from Walmart when the first FB2 came out. That's not really 'impulse' buy territory, but who knows, that could vary.

As a retro enthusiast, I would certainly pay more for better quality games.

I'm really not all that down on the unit, I'm just venting...lol, honestly. Don't take me the wrong way. My criticism is meant to be constructive, but I realize that posts on a board don't really amount to much...I just like to speak my mind on these things.

If all Atari wanted to do was just put out a product which, to me anyway, is less than the original FB2 for the sole reason of maximizing profits, then that speaks volumes on how narrow-minded their business practices are. I'd like to see this change in the future. Jakks does the same thing with their flimsy, rehashed plug n play sticks....put out the cheapest stuff they can and hope to make some profits without any innovations. Surely they must know that to make money, you gotta spend some money! A previous poster put up a really awesome list of games that would have made ANY gamer take a second look...and I'm certain that with a collection of the GREAT games that made this system what it was would be completely worth a price tag of an average game for a modern console...around 70 USD. Throw in some paddles?...now we're talkin!

FB2 vs FB1...HUGE improvements were made, and I would like to think that the sales figures reflected that. Of course I don't know the numbers, and my whole argument wouldn't hold up if the FB outsold the FB2 on novelty alone, but I can only assume it did better for Atari, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing a FB2+...and I'm sure that the FB3 will be more along the lines of what I'd like to see.

What about Eric Ball's games?...or the many other awesome (already available) homebrews out there? Medieval Madness would have been a great addition, and there's at least six more I can think of that would have made great additions.

I'll tell you what average gamers do....they look to see what games are included. First, they say "Wow! Atari, I used to love this f%&*ing thing!!!"...and then they see the list of games, say, "oh...I don't remember playing these ones" and pass it by. ONE great game could sell the unit, but I honestly can't see which "one great game" it would be on the FB2+.

#98 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:21 PM

If I were to have one modded, would it be able to play 7800 games as well as 2600?

Nope! Its 2600 games only. Some of those may not work either depending on which illegal opcodes are supported by the FB2+.

#99 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:39 PM

I'd personally like to see just how much more the licensing fees would add to the cost of the unit.


If we would have done any more licensed games the last time around, it would have jumped it to the $US40-$70 range depending on how many. Curt should know the exact figures.

If all Atari wanted to do was just put out a product which, to me anyway, is less than the original FB2 for the sole reason of maximizing profits, then that speaks volumes on how narrow-minded their business practices are.


Or maybe it states you're completely misreading things. The whole thing started specifically for General Mills, not Atari. Atari then decided as long as this was being done, they might as well up the number of units manufactured to test the waters on it again through their regular market channels.

What about Eric Ball's games?...or the many other awesome (already available) homebrews out there? Medieval Madness would have been a great addition, and there's at least six more I can think of that would have made great additions.



Once again that would require more licensing and more money. As previously stated, they wanted to keep the budget at a bare minimum this time. Hence any new games would have to be ones they already owned the rights to. Likewise any major hardware changes or updates we wanted to do were nixed.

.and I'm certain that with a collection of the GREAT games that made this system what it was would be completely worth a price tag of an average game for a modern console...around 70 USD. Throw in some paddles?...now we're talkin!


No way in hell would anything like that fly in a plug and play. A $70 price point for a collection of games that modern gamers wouldn't cast a second glance at? What are you smoking? There's a reason why there's a $30 price point on these, and there's no way any actual game company would see any validity in what you're stating. The value is just not there, you'd get laughed out of the board room trying to present it.

#100 mos6507 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:47 PM

I had a lot of issues tracking all of the objects in the larger amount of rooms in ADV II


You actually coded Adventure II for the 2600 yourself or are you talking about your subcontractor?




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