Seeking more information on early MacIntosh computers

[Tempest]

A little off topic, but what size should the disk cache be set to? I have 4MB of memory and a 20MB HD.

 

Tempest

[desiv]

Ok, so that is good to know. So on a standard 68k (original/classic) mac you CAN expand the memory beyond 1M if you have this RAM card.

With the "Mac Classic", this is the case.

Apparently the SE and the Plus don't need a card to expand to 4M, just SIMMs.

The 512K and 512Ke only expand to 512k.

The 128K expands to 128k. :-)

The SE/30 expands to 128M. 8-O Really? Wow!! :-)

 

OK, a 30 and expandable to 128M.. I can see why those are popular... :-)

 

So, the Mac Classic is the only one you have to worry about the RAM card.

 

desiv

[Tempest]

Ok, so that is good to know. So on a standard 68k (original/classic) mac you CAN expand the memory beyond 1M if you have this RAM card.

With the "Mac Classic", this is the case.

Apparently the SE and the Plus don't need a card to expand to 4M, just SIMMs.

The 512K and 512Ke only expand to 512k.

The 128K expands to 128k. :-)

The SE/30 expands to 128M. 8-O Really? Wow!! :-)

 

OK, a 30 and expandable to 128M.. I can see why those are popular... :-)

 

So, the Mac Classic is the only one you have to worry about the RAM card.

 

desiv

But what would you do with that extra memory? I put 4MB in my Plus only because I could and it cost me about $20. There's probably no reason to do something like putting 128MB in a SE/30.

 

Tempest

[desiv]

But what would you do with that extra memory? I put 4MB in my Plus only because I could and it cost me about $20. There's probably no reason to do something like putting 128MB in a SE/30.

 

What? That doesn't matter..

I have a memory card for my Apple //e. I think it's 2M...

Yeah, I never use it. I don't think I've used anything that used over 64k in there, but.. but....

 

I can do it!!!

 

Isn't that reason enough!!!!

 

desiv

[jukingeo]

With the "Mac Classic", this is the case.

Apparently the SE and the Plus don't need a card to expand to 4M, just SIMMs.

The 512K and 512Ke only expand to 512k.

The 128K expands to 128k. :-)

The SE/30 expands to 128M. 8-O Really? Wow!! :-)

 

OK, a 30 and expandable to 128M.. I can see why those are popular... :-)

 

So, the Mac Classic is the only one you have to worry about the RAM card.

 

desiv

 

Ok, so then it is Classic I and II that have the restriction on 1M, so then for something like the Mac Plus that one is expandable to 4Meg. But in the case of the SE/30 you can go all the way to 128meg...on board?

 

 

 

But what would you do with that extra memory? I put 4MB in my Plus only because I could and it cost me about $20. There's probably no reason to do something like putting 128MB in a SE/30.

 

Tempest

 

Personally I wouldn't know. Would there be something that uses that much memory? Can these old Macs multi-task? I am assuming so. So if you have 3 or 4 programs running, extra memory can come in handy. But I do understand what you are saying. So it would be better to put things into better perspective. Lets say you have a standard case scenario of 2 or 3 "typical" programs running (typical meaning the average size program of that era), what would you REALLY need in terms of memory? Would 16m be enough, 32m, or 64m? Or were there programs back then that would use the full 128m. It is hard to put it into context for me because I never had a Mac before. Today's memory on a PC usually runs around 2-4gig on the average, so I would think a machine with 8meg is quite out there as I don't know many applications that would use THAT much memory (now at least).

 

Anyway, I tried to sign up for the 68k Mac Liberation Army forum today and I never got my activation email. I tried to 're-register' with my info, but it says my screen name is in use. So that means my information took...but I never got the confirmation email...and yes I checked anti-spam. I tried to get in contact with a forum moderator, but in order to PM, you have to sign on, so that is a catch-22. Bummer! I wanted to make some post today too. I guess I will try again later on my home machine.

 

Geo

[desiv]

Ok, so then it is Classic I and II that have the restriction on 1M, so then for something like the Mac Plus that one is expandable to 4Meg. But in the case of the SE/30 you can go all the way to 128meg...on board?

Actually, just the Classic. The Classic II is a different beast. It's a 68030 machine that can go to 10M RAM with SIMMs.

 

Although it sounds nice, apparently it runs slower than the SE/30 and doesn't have the expansion slot the SE/30 does. So, it's nice, but an SE/30 is better.

 

desiv

[Christophero Sly]

A little off topic, but what size should the disk cache be set to? I have 4MB of memory and a 20MB HD.

 

Tempest

**EDIT: Forget what I just wrote here about disk cache size. I just snooped around for some further information online and what I found seems to contradict what I remember.

 

The short answer seems to be 32K is fine for that setup.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Christophero Sly

[Mirage]

 

The 512K and 512Ke only expand to 512k.

 

 

For all practical purposes, this is true, but there were third-party boards available to take the 512ke up to 4mb, I believe these were combined with a SCSI interface IIRC. But still, basically, for our uses here, you're right, since those boards are probably like hen's teeth nowadays.

 

I would personally avoid the 512K and 512Ke anyway, even though the 512K (later enhanced) was my first Mac. But sentimentality aside, you're not going to pay any more for a Plus (if you went that route) and it's going to be much better.

[Christophero Sly]

 

The 512K and 512Ke only expand to 512k.

 

...but there were third-party boards available to take the 512ke up to 4mb, I believe these were combined with a SCSI interface IIRC. But still, basically, for our uses here, you're right, since those boards are probably like hen's teeth nowadays.

This is correct. It basically upgraded the 512e to a Plus. My college roommate had that setup. That machine was my introduction to Macintosh computers. Edited January 26, 2010 by Christophero Sly

[aftermac]

But what would you do with that extra memory? I put 4MB in my Plus only because I could and it cost me about $20. There's probably no reason to do something like putting 128MB in a SE/30.

 

Tempest

 

If only, the SE/30 supported a RAM disk! You could have a 64 MB RAM disk with your OS and Apps loaded AND STILL HAVE 64 MB to run them.

[aftermac]

lowendmac.com and 68kmla.com are great resources as mentioned earlier.

 

As a Mac user since 1993 and having experience with over 50 Mac models (and all of the compact models, except the 128k and Color Classic II), I've never had any speed issues with software or games running too fast. I guess it would be possible if the games wasn't coded properly. My first computer was a IIsi (20 MHz, 68030) and I ran A LOT of classic software on it. Now certain programs wouldn't run full speed, because they required a faster computer, but running TOO fast was never an issue.

 

With that said, the SE/30 is probably the way to go if you're getting a classic Mac. There really is no down side. Definitely get one with a Superdrive. 800k floppies are getting hard to come by... which is my only knock against the Plus, and I LOVE the Plus, especially the keyboard (I like the compact 128k keyboard even better). I do like the styling of the front of the Classic just a bit better though.

 

So it seems like the model line up is leaning in favor of the SE/30 followed by the Plus. How are the later model Classic's and Classic II's, have you tried them out? Now out of the Color Classics, the first one is better than the second one as you mention that the Color Classic II has speed issues?

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the Color Classic II has speed issues... just that the CCII and the Mac 128k are the only 2 Compact Mac's that I don't have experience with. (ie. those are the 2 models I don't own). The CC and CCII are both nice machines. I love my CC.

 

 

Of all of my Classic Mac's (I have about a dozen) the SE/30 is the only one I have permanently setup.

 

That is good to know. At least I know I am good to go with this model. Not much on Ebay now though. Guess I will have to wait.

 

HA! Slight typo on my part... I meant to say that I have about a dozen *compact* Mac's. I have about 50 classic Mac's.

 

Unfortunately, certain models are getting hard to come by these days.

 

 

If anyone has specific questions about Mac's classic or otherwise feel free to PM me. I try to hit all the Mac related threads that come up, but I'm bound to miss somethings.

 

Thanx, I will keep that in mind.

 

Thanx all! Now I have to just sign up for that 68k mac forum.

 

Geo

 

No problem! I was around when the 68kmla started on the old MacAddict forums years ago. When they started their own site, I signed up because I wanted to help people get started with Mac's and answer questions. The problem is there are SO MANY good Mac people over there that I was usually beat to the punch and eventually, I just got bored. I actually help more people with Mac issues on AtariAge than I was able to on 68kmla!

 

 

Personally I wouldn't know. Would there be something that uses that much memory? Can these old Macs multi-task? I am assuming so. So if you have 3 or 4 programs running, extra memory can come in handy. But I do understand what you are saying. So it would be better to put things into better perspective. Lets say you have a standard case scenario of 2 or 3 "typical" programs running (typical meaning the average size program of that era), what would you REALLY need in terms of memory? Would 16m be enough, 32m, or 64m? Or were there programs back then that would use the full 128m. It is hard to put it into context for me because I never had a Mac before. Today's memory on a PC usually runs around 2-4gig on the average, so I would think a machine with 8meg is quite out there as I don't know many applications that would use THAT much memory (now at least).

 

Anyway, I tried to sign up for the 68k Mac Liberation Army forum today and I never got my activation email. I tried to 're-register' with my info, but it says my screen name is in use. So that means my information took...but I never got the confirmation email...and yes I checked anti-spam. I tried to get in contact with a forum moderator, but in order to PM, you have to sign on, so that is a catch-22. Bummer! I wanted to make some post today too. I guess I will try again later on my home machine.

 

Geo

 

Yeah, they can multi-task... System 6 has this kludge called the Multi-Finder that allows you to run multiple apps. System 7 has better multi-tasking... and runs pretty decent on the SE/30. Either way, the classic Mac's rely on cooperative multi-tasking instead of a modern preemptive management system, and they also lack protected memory.

Edited January 26, 2010 by aftermac

[jukingeo]

Hello guys,

 

Ok, once again, the multi-quote isn't working. I AM going to start to make multiple replies if they don't fix it. I can't stand it when forums don't work right.

 

Anyway, moving on:

 

Desiv: Yeah I been reading up on the Classic II and that was the one that I initially set my sights on. But then I heard about the SE/30 and that is the one to go with. So the next question is this: What is better the Plus or the Classic II. Also, how do you rate the classic colors? Can the color games play on the monochrome units (it may sound funny but I actually prefer a monochrome as it has a more of a 'classic' feel. Also the monitors are easier to fix).

 

Tempest: That is a good point with the ram disk. Wish it could do that myself. I remember asking someone one time why they went to 8gig on their PC and that was the exact same answer...4gig was main memory and another 4gig for a ram drive.

 

Aftermac:

 

Thusfar the 68kmla has NOT sent me my activation. But I am at home now so I am going to make up a new screen name and see what happens tonight. It is strange that the site doesn't have someone to contact in case of issues like that.

 

It's good to know that the classic Mac's can multi-task. I figured they would...after all where did Gates get the idea for Windows from?

 

Ok so thusfar it looks like the order to find a classic Mac (monochrome) is:

 

1) SE/30

2) PLUS

3) Classic II

 

At any rate, I have not seen any SE/30s up and around. One guy is TRYING to sell one on Ebay for $300. Naw, I don't think so.

 

However there are some Pluses up there that I was checking out. Some have monitor issues though. I MAY be able to fix them.

 

Anyway, I am going to try to give it another go with 68Kmla and see what happens.

 

Thanx,

 

Geo

[aftermac]

Hello guys,

 

Ok, once again, the multi-quote isn't working. I AM going to start to make multiple replies if they don't fix it. I can't stand it when forums don't work right.

 

Anyway, moving on:

 

Desiv: Yeah I been reading up on the Classic II and that was the one that I initially set my sights on. But then I heard about the SE/30 and that is the one to go with. So the next question is this: What is better the Plus or the Classic II. Also, how do you rate the classic colors? Can the color games play on the monochrome units (it may sound funny but I actually prefer a monochrome as it has a more of a 'classic' feel. Also the monitors are easier to fix).

 

Tempest: That is a good point with the ram disk. Wish it could do that myself. I remember asking someone one time why they went to 8gig on their PC and that was the exact same answer...4gig was main memory and another 4gig for a ram drive.

 

Aftermac:

 

Thusfar the 68kmla has NOT sent me my activation. But I am at home now so I am going to make up a new screen name and see what happens tonight. It is strange that the site doesn't have someone to contact in case of issues like that.

 

It's good to know that the classic Mac's can multi-task. I figured they would...after all where did Gates get the idea for Windows from?

 

Ok so thusfar it looks like the order to find a classic Mac (monochrome) is:

 

1) SE/30

2) PLUS

3) Classic II

 

At any rate, I have not seen any SE/30s up and around. One guy is TRYING to sell one on Ebay for $300. Naw, I don't think so.

 

However there are some Pluses up there that I was checking out. Some have monitor issues though. I MAY be able to fix them.

 

Anyway, I am going to try to give it another go with 68Kmla and see what happens.

 

Thanx,

 

Geo

 

When you are Multiquoting, are you clicking the Multiquote button in each of the posts you want to quote then hitting the orange "Add Reply" button at the bottom of the page, or one of the blue Reply buttons in one of the posts?

 

If I were you here would be my pecking order for compact Mac's:

 

1) SE/30

2) Classic II

3) SE (Superdrive or FD/HD)

4) Classic

5) Plus

 

That is not an all encompassing list for compact Mac's - I left several models out for a reason.

 

I put the Plus at the bottom of the list because your only hard drive option is external and it is limited to 800k floppy disks. The Classic and SE are basically the same as a Plus with a few improvements. ADB for more mice and keyboard options, 1.44 MB Superdrive, and internal HD.

 

With that said, if you can find EITHER of the Color Classic models at a reasonable price I would snap one up. They are highly sought after and have been known to fetch a pretty penny.

 

I left the 128k and 512k models off the list for obvious reasons.

 

Oh, and 4 MB RAM is plenty for System 6 and 8 MB is decent for System 7.1.

 

Hope this helps!

[desiv]

Desiv: Yeah I been reading up on the Classic II and that was the one that I initially set my sights on. But then I heard about the SE/30 and that is the one to go with. So the next question is this: What is better the Plus or the Classic II. Also, how do you rate the classic colors? Can the color games play on the monochrome units (it may sound funny but I actually prefer a monochrome as it has a more of a 'classic' feel. Also the monitors are easier to fix).

 

I don't know. I've never tried to run a color game on a b/w Mac I don't think.. Hmmm...

Maybe Tetris and that works, but it could be a b/w version.

 

To be fair, I have a IIsi (and a couple other old non-b/w Macs, nothing higher than a 40 tho! :-) for color stuff.

 

It's good to know that the classic Mac's can multi-task. I figured they would...after all where did Gates get the idea for Windows from?

 

I could rattle off PARC or Unix, but I'll go with Amiga on this one. Although the early Windows task switching was much closer to that of the Mac. Just, on the Mac, that worked better.

 

desiv

[akator]

But what would you do with that extra memory? I put 4MB in my Plus only because I could and it cost me about $20. There's probably no reason to do something like putting 128MB in a SE/30.

 

Tempest

 

If only, the SE/30 supported a RAM disk! You could have a 64 MB RAM disk with your OS and Apps loaded AND STILL HAVE 64 MB to run them.

 

I had a Mac Plus, later an SE/30, and later a IIsi. There was a third-party control panel utility for System 6 that created RAM disks, but I don't remember the name of it. I think it was a Connectix product. My IIsi was maxed out at 17MB of RAM, yet System 6 wasn't 32-bit clean so it could only access 9MB of RAM for software. I would use the "leftover" 8MB as a RAM disk. Very useful, as back then you could fit a ton of applications into 8MB and things ran much faster than off floppies or the period HDs.

 

EDIT: Looks like Maxima may have been the Connectix product I remember. Problem is, the version listed in this article only ran on 68030s (like the SE/30 and IIsi). I distinctly remember using a RAM disk on my Mac Plus running System 6, but I have no way of figuring out what that software was

 

System 7 had built-in RAM disk creation in the Memory Control Panel.

Edited January 27, 2010 by akator

[aftermac]

I had a Mac Plus, later an SE/30, and later a IIsi. There was a third-party control panel utility for System 6 that created RAM disks, but I don't remember the name of it. I think it was a Connectix product. My IIsi was maxed out at 17MB of RAM, yet System 6 wasn't 32-bit clean so it could only access 9MB of RAM for software. I would use the "leftover" 8MB as a RAM disk. Very useful, as back then you could fit a ton of applications into 8MB and things ran much faster than off floppies or the period HDs.

 

EDIT: Looks like Maxima may have been the Connectix product I remember. Problem is, the version listed in this article only ran on 68030s (like the SE/30 and IIsi). I distinctly remember using a RAM disk on my Mac Plus running System 6, but I have no way of figuring out what that software was

 

System 7 had built-in RAM disk creation in the Memory Control Panel.

 

It's possible that Maxima might work on the SE/30... provided that you have the available HD space to copy the RAM disk contents to on shutdown. It can be downloaded here: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/71more.html

 

So, it looks like, with Maxima, a large enough hard drive, and 128 MB of RAM in the SE/30 could be pretty useful. It would make "disk" access incredibly fast and give you plenty of storage.

 

With that said... Apple does not natively support RAM disks on the SE/30 - even in System 7. The option simply does not show up in the Memory Control Panel. Apple only supports RAM disks on a handful of desktop 68030's and NONE of the 68000 or 68020's.

[jukingeo]

When you are Multiquoting, are you clicking the Multiquote button in each of the posts you want to quote then hitting the orange "Add Reply" button at the bottom of the page, or one of the blue Reply buttons in one of the posts?

 

Ahhh, that was the problem. Yeah, I was hitting the blue button. The thing is that with other forums once you click on multi-quote, it doesn't matter what reply button you hit you will get the multi-quote in your reply text box.

 

 

If I were you here would be my pecking order for compact Mac's:

 

1) SE/30

2) Classic II

3) SE (Superdrive or FD/HD)

4) Classic

5) Plus

 

That is not an all encompassing list for compact Mac's - I left several models out for a reason.

 

Ok. But the Plus has the extra slots to go to 4meg, but you need the RAM card for the others to go to 4meg then, right?

 

I put the Plus at the bottom of the list because your only hard drive option is external and it is limited to 800k floppy disks. The Classic and SE are basically the same as a Plus with a few improvements. ADB for more mice and keyboard options, 1.44 MB Superdrive, and internal HD.

 

Oh Ok. Yeah the Classic II was one of the first ones on my list originally as well...until I found out about the SE/30. But I have a funny feeling that many others beat me to the punch and I gather that the SE/30 might be a difficult and/or expensive find, correct?

 

With that said, if you can find EITHER of the Color Classic models at a reasonable price I would snap one up. They are highly sought after and have been known to fetch a pretty penny.]

 

Define 'good price' and 'pretty penny'. Bottom line is that I am looking to spend $100 and perhaps I could be stretched to $200, but that is about it. It's that recession thing going on out there, so I have to watch the pocketbook.

 

I left the 128k and 512k models off the list for obvious reasons.

 

Hmmmm, might it have something to do with the memory? LOL!

 

Oh, and 4 MB RAM is plenty for System 6 and 8 MB is decent for System 7.1.

 

Hope this helps!

 

That is what I thought. What I was thinking is perhaps I would go with something like a Classic II first and if I really fly with the Mac, then I can seek out an SE/30 UNLESS I get a good deal on that one.

 

 

 

I don't know. I've never tried to run a color game on a b/w Mac I don't think.. Hmmm...

Maybe Tetris and that works, but it could be a b/w version.

 

To be fair, I have a IIsi (and a couple other old non-b/w Macs, nothing higher than a 40 tho! :-) for color stuff.

 

Well, like I said, color isn't mandatory. I was just curious if the color games would play on the older Macs (obviously in b/w though). One of the things that worries me about these older computers if the monitor goes. I am JUST learning to fix these and certainly a monochrome monitor would be easier to fix than a color one. Plus, as I said above, I am looking into something retro, so the monochrome monitor just adds to the look.

 

The truth is that I always wanted one of these older Macs (but when they were newer), but they used to be extremely expensive. So I held off on buying a computer until Windows 3.1 was well under way.

 

 

I could rattle off PARC or Unix, but I'll go with Amiga on this one. Although the early Windows task switching was much closer to that of the Mac. Just, on the Mac, that worked better.

 

desiv

 

Well, it is no secret which company copied whom. But as I said, Macs were very expensive. If the Macs were more competitively priced back in the day, then I think that I probably would have been a Mac user.

 

Lately though, my 'prized' ideals in Microsoft really have been dwindling as I am tired of the security issues and the constant forking over $100 (or more) every time a new OS comes out. My cousin-in-law has a Mac laptop computer and I saw what he can do with it. He doesn't use virus protection, nor pop up or spyware protection. He says he 'doesn't need it'. So slowly a '?' pops in my mind that perhaps it is time to switch.

 

 

 

I had a Mac Plus, later an SE/30, and later a IIsi. There was a third-party control panel utility for System 6 that created RAM disks, but I don't remember the name of it. I think it was a Connectix product. My IIsi was maxed out at 17MB of RAM, yet System 6 wasn't 32-bit clean so it could only access 9MB of RAM for software. I would use the "leftover" 8MB as a RAM disk. Very useful, as back then you could fit a ton of applications into 8MB and things ran much faster than off floppies or the period HDs.

 

But now this is with the IIsi though... not the SE/30

 

 

EDIT: Looks like Maxima may have been the Connectix product I remember. Problem is, the version listed in this article only ran on 68030s (like the SE/30 and IIsi). I distinctly remember using a RAM disk on my Mac Plus running System 6, but I have no way of figuring out what that software was

 

System 7 had built-in RAM disk creation in the Memory Control Panel.

 

Oh, so the SE/30 CAN do it then. Yeah, then I can see it being worth it because going full out on the SE/30's memory. You could probably fit quite a few programs into the ram drive and the computer should run nice and fast!

 

 

 

It's possible that Maxima might work on the SE/30... provided that you have the available HD space to copy the RAM disk contents to on shutdown. It can be downloaded here: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/71more.html

 

So, it looks like, with Maxima, a large enough hard drive, and 128 MB of RAM in the SE/30 could be pretty useful. It would make "disk" access incredibly fast and give you plenty of storage.

 

With that said... Apple does not natively support RAM disks on the SE/30 - even in System 7. The option simply does not show up in the Memory Control Panel. Apple only supports RAM disks on a handful of desktop 68030's and NONE of the 68000 or 68020's.

 

Ok, that is something I will keep in mind in the event I do end up with a SE/30.

 

So then, it is time to start looking for something.

 

Now, in terms of looking for one of the machines mentioned above (SE/30, Classics) what should I look out for? Mostly if I find one with a problem, what are the easy fixes and what are the ones I should run from like the plague?

 

Thanx,

 

Geo

[jukingeo]

Edit: Oh, for some reason I STILL can't get on to 68Kmla's forums. I tried on my home computer last night using a different password and screen name and I was sure everything (AV, Spyware, filters and a partridge in a pear tree) was all turned off. NO email from 68k...so something is wrong on their end.

 

Aftermac...you mentioned that you are in that forum a lot, is it possible if you could track one of the moderators down for me there to look into the problem as to why the activation email isn't being sent?

 

Thanx,

 

Geo

[aftermac]

Geo,

 

As far as your concerns about memory and getting at least 4 MB... just make sure to buy one with 4 MB. I would say 80% of the compact Mac's out there have at least have at least 4 MB.

 

Concerning things to watch out for... try to get a picture of the computer you are interested in turned on, so you can make sure the display is appearing correctly. If the machine boots and the screen is appearing correctly, then you are probably getting a decent computer.

 

I'll try to see what I can do at 68kmla, but I really haven't been on there in a couple years (ie. since I discovered AtariAge ).

 

I logged into my account just to see when I last logged in: "Last visited:Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:34 pm"

 

I only have 232 post-crash posts. I'm sure a couple people will remember me, though... PM me the account name and email address you were trying to create the account with, so I have some kind of information to give them and I will try to contact someone.

 

LOL, I forgot about the wiki they were starting to build a couple years ago... I wrote the description for the MacTV (though, my bad grammar has been corrected): http://68kmla.net/wiki/Macintosh_TV

[jukingeo]

Geo,

 

As far as your concerns about memory and getting at least 4 MB... just make sure to buy one with 4 MB. I would say 80% of the compact Mac's out there have at least have at least 4 MB.

 

Oh, ok. If they are THAT common, then I will just look out for that.

 

Concerning things to watch out for... try to get a picture of the computer you are interested in turned on, so you can make sure the display is appearing correctly. If the machine boots and the screen is appearing correctly, then you are probably getting a decent computer.

 

I'll try to see what I can do at 68kmla, but I really haven't been on there in a couple years (ie. since I discovered AtariAge ).

 

Yeah, I don't know what is going on. I logged in via two different machines in two different locations. Granted the machine at work is protected to the teeth, but the one at home I don't have much on AND what I had on I turned off. So there were no pop up blockers, no anti-virus, no anti spam and I didn't receive any kind of email. I checked with my service provider and nothing has come through from 68kmla.org. So A) either the email WAS sent and was blocked because there is something malicious attached to it (not likely) or B) 68kmla simply didn't send the email due to a glitch on their end (most likely).

 

I logged into my account just to see when I last logged in: "Last visited:Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:34 pm"

 

I only have 232 post-crash posts. I'm sure a couple people will remember me, though... PM me the account name and email address you were trying to create the account with, so I have some kind of information to give them and I will try to contact someone.

 

Ok, will do.

 

Thanx,

 

Geo

[jukingeo]

Hey guys quick question for you,

 

I been doing more reading up on the early Mac's and I was curious as to your opinions on the Macintosh Portable. I know by most virtues this could be considered a laptop, but looking at the specs on it, it doesn't look to be a bad portable/luggable computer.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Portable

 

It has a monochrome display, 1.44m Superdrive (standard) and it comes with 1meg ram (the shortcoming) but it is expandable to 5 meg.

 

Being battery operated is not mandatory for me but it is a plus. My biggest quip about laptop computers when they age is that you can't get a battery for them. Soooo, what I found interesting is that this computer uses conventional lead acid batteries. That would mean they are pretty easy to replace. The downside though it does make the entire package pretty heavy at around 16lbs, definitely not a lap friendly weight, BUT it is still lighter than the Kaypro II.

 

I looked on Ebay and suprisingly there are many parts still available for these computers.

 

My only question mark is the display. It has an active matrix TFT which is the same display that my wife had on her IBM 701 Thinkpad (the Butterfly). I HATED that display...very hard on the eyes. I am not sure if the Macintosh Portable would have the same effects as it is monochrome to boot. It would be nice to see one in person.

 

So wadjya think?

 

Thanx,

 

Geo

[Mirage]

What would be the advantage of it? It's less expandable, probably harder to work on, probably not any less portable than a Plus or SE/30 (!!!!!) and likely harder to find people who know anything about them or have parts for them (I would think this to be true since the Portable's are less common and less popular). So, it sounds like your only advantage is that it's battery powered... but remember, it's ONLY battery powered, so if you for some reason cannot replace them, you're out of luck.

 

That wiki article says it's expandable to 9mb (if you can find that special memory card).

[aftermac]

Personally, I would avoid the Portable. I have one because it is fairly rare and makes nice conversation piece. Other than that it sits on the shelf. I has a larger foot print than the SE. The display is not all that pleasant to look at, it uses non-standard RAM, non-standard hard drive, a functioning battery is required to boot it - even if it is plugged in! I have been able to "jump-start" mine occasionally, but it's a pain in the rear. Maybe with a functioning battery, I would use it more, but the computer is probably more trouble than it's worth for a machine you want to use.

[jukingeo]

What would be the advantage of it? It's less expandable, probably harder to work on, probably not any less portable than a Plus or SE/30 (!!!!!) and likely harder to find people who know anything about them or have parts for them (I would think this to be true since the Portable's are less common and less popular). So, it sounds like your only advantage is that it's battery powered... but remember, it's ONLY battery powered, so if you for some reason cannot replace them, you're out of luck.

 

That wiki article says it's expandable to 9mb (if you can find that special memory card).

 

Ahhh, would be nice if the SE/30 came in a Kaypro style package. Yeah, I missed that little tidbit about NEEDING the batteries to work in order for the AC to even operate. I also read that there are two versions, one with a backlit LCD and one without. The one without is harder to read in dim lit rooms and while the backlit one is better overall, it does shorten the battery life.

 

Oh, well, I figured I tried to ask about it. I guess I probably would have run into a problem with the TFT display as well.

 

I had to laugh when I read the wiki again...at the bottom it says that 17th worst tech product of all time. Where as the following model, the Macintosh Powerbook 100 laptop computer got voted the best tech/gadget (as of a 2005 writing).

 

Personally, I would avoid the Portable. I have one because it is fairly rare and makes nice conversation piece. Other than that it sits on the shelf. I has a larger foot print than the SE. The display is not all that pleasant to look at,

 

That's it, you just had to stop there. That is the main thing. I need to have a GOOD display, especially since I am willing to go smaller for a more 'portable' unit.

 

it uses non-standard RAM, non-standard hard drive, a functioning battery is required to boot it - even if it is plugged in! I have been able to "jump-start" mine occasionally, but it's a pain in the rear. Maybe with a functioning battery, I would use it more, but the computer is probably more trouble than it's worth for a machine you want to use.

 

Ok, point made.

 

As I mentioned above about the Powerbook 100...I don't know why, but I just don't have a 'thing' for the early laptops even though I do prefer the trackball over that touchpad they use on the later models. However, I think that in terms of a Mac laptop I would probably go with a G3 Pismo. That era roughly coincides with the purchase of my wife's second IBM laptop which had a MUCH better LCD screen. Also...did you ever catch the rear panel on a G3 Pismo? Sheesh for an earlier machine that thing had everything, USB, Firewire, Modem, Ethernet. Certainly my I/O needs would be fulfilled with that one.

 

Ok, so for now I have been looking into both an SE/30 or a Mac Classic II. I DO want the Superdrive because as it stands I am probably going to have to go on-line via my PC and transfer files via floppy to the Mac and I CAN do that with the Superdrive and not the earlier disks. Also since they still make 1.44mb floppies, I would be fine in terms of purchasable media.

 

Thusfar I really have not found a good SE/30 yet. Guess I just have to wait some more. It would be great if I can find one on craigslist locally because then I can go out and see it.

 

Anyway, thanx again for the input.

 

Geo

[Christophero Sly]

That would mean they are pretty easy to replace.

Think again.

 

Personally, I would avoid the Portable. I have one because it is fairly rare and makes nice conversation piece. Other than that it sits on the shelf. I has a larger foot print than the SE. The display is not all that pleasant to look at, it uses non-standard RAM, non-standard hard drive, a functioning battery is required to boot it - even if it is plugged in! I have been able to "jump-start" mine occasionally, but it's a pain in the rear. Maybe with a functioning battery, I would use it more, but the computer is probably more trouble than it's worth for a machine you want to use.

Exactly my experience; exactly my advice.

 

That's it, you just had to stop there. That is the main thing. I need to have a GOOD display, especially since I am willing to go smaller for a more 'portable' unit.

I don't know exactly what your criterion for displays is, but if the Portable is something you'd consider, then 170/180 or 540/550, as I said before, are excellent classic Mac laptops with active matrix displays. They're a much better choice than the Portable. I have a PB 160, which has a passive matrix screen. It's a little rough in grayscale mode, but it's perfectly acceptable to me in monochrome mode. In the end, the display's of that era are part and parcel of the "classic" Mac experience. That's true of both LCD's and CRT's. If you want the "classic" Mac experience, you're going to have to make some compromises, and IMO, ones involving displays are among the easiest to make.

 

However, I think that in terms of a Mac laptop I would probably go with a G3 Pismo. That era roughly coincides with the purchase of my wife's second IBM laptop which had a MUCH better LCD screen. Also...did you ever catch the rear panel on a G3 Pismo? Sheesh for an earlier machine that thing had everything, USB, Firewire, Modem, Ethernet. Certainly my I/O needs would be fulfilled with that one.

I have a Pismo, and it is, indeed, an excellent machine. However, it is not an "earlier" machine. If you're looking for a "classic" Macintosh experience, that is not the Mac to get. The Pismo is NOT a "classic" Mac. Even though it's 10+ years old, it's very much a modern Macintosh, and a very long way from an SE/30 or Classic II. If you're new to the Macintosh, I think you should be careful to keep in mind the difference between the modern Macs, and those considered "classic". Edited January 30, 2010 by Christophero Sly