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G2F comes to the 7800!


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#1 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 5, 2010 10:11 PM

Got this working a few hours ago :-

Attached File  G2FSlideshow.06_02_10.1.00.a78   48.13KB   177 downloads
Attached File  G2FSlideshow.06_02_10.1.00.bin   48KB   121 downloads

Basically its a slide show of 3 images converted using an A8 tool called Quantizator into G2F's *.MIC and *.COL files. These two files are then run through my utility and the output is hand stitched together and built into a ROM image.

I'm not going to post the images because that would give the game away :lol:. CC2 owners will need the following information :-

7800_48K 78BIOS

I'll be adapting the tool to produce a fully automated assembly language file that can be built into a ROM. Hopefully this will mean that 7800 game title pages will get much more interesting :D.

There is a visual glitch (1 pixel high) at the very bottom of the images. I don't know why its happening but I'll investigate and remove it if possible.

Let me know what you think.

#2 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 5, 2010 10:31 PM

I forgot to mention that it won't look right on PAL machines. I don't have a PAL palette to give the A8's quantizator tool :(. The image is steady but it just looks horrible.

#3 DracIsBack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 6:50 AM

Got this working a few hours ago :-

Basically its a slide show of 3 images converted using an A8 tool called Quantizator into G2F's *.MIC and *.COL files. These two files are then run through my utility and the output is hand stitched together and built into a ROM image.


Neat! Remind me to send you some good Dracula images in case you want to include a digitized image of him in your halloween game!

I don't know what it is, but I've always loved seeing digitized images on older 8-bit machines. Must come from when I had ComputerEyes on the Atari 8-bit. Anyone else have that one?

Edited by DracIsBack, Sat Feb 6, 2010 6:51 AM.


#4 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:26 AM

I don't know what it is, but I've always loved seeing digitized images on older 8-bit machines. Must come from when I had ComputerEyes on the Atari 8-bit. Anyone else have that one?


You can do more than just display digitised images. If you download G2F (from the link in the first post) its an art package that allows you to draw in 2BPP (MARIA 160A mode) and a maximum of 4 colours per horizontal line. When I get some time I'll see how many sprites can be overlaid on the image while the colours remain stable. Might make for an interesting game or three ;) :ponder: :lol:.

#5 roland p OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:29 AM

Do you have screenshots?

#6 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:32 AM

Do you have screenshots?


No! Its a surprise when you try out the ROM image ;) :lol:.

#7 gambler172 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 11:12 AM

Hi Mark
Wow,this look really great...
greetings Walter

#8 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 4:18 PM


Do you have screenshots?

No! Its a surprise when you try out the ROM image ;) :lol:.

And screw everyone who isn't where they can try it.

Astoundingly irritating, that. Just the sort of mood I'm sure you were trying to create.

#9 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 5:47 PM

And screw everyone who isn't where they can try it.

Astoundingly irritating, that. Just the sort of mood I'm sure you were trying to create.


:roll: Wow! What a response! :lol: Due to the fact that the current 7800 emulators don't emulate MARIAs CPU halting DMA the tech demo has to be seen on a real machine in my opinion. It doesn't really matter what the pictures are. Ilmenit (the author of the Quantizator tool) deserves the credit for writing an excellent conversion tool that makes that possible. What matters is the fact that the 7800 can now do something the A8 computers have been able to do for ages.

#10 nonner242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:04 PM

OH OH, Me me me ,me!
I know what it is......Posted Image
I really like that game!

I wonder how many total images you can put on a normal 7800 cart.Posted Image
Also I think it would be VERY cool (hint...hint) to put a Movie Clip on a cart...which CAN be done with this...Posted Image
Yeah that would be my idea of Awesomeness...Posted Image

Edited by nonner242, Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:08 PM.


#11 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:17 PM

OH OH, Me me me ,me!
I know what it is......Posted Image
I really like that game!


:ponder: :lol:

I wonder how many total images you can put on a normal 7800 cart.Posted Image
Also I think it would be VERY cool (hint...hint) to put a Movie Clip on a cart...which CAN be done with this...Posted Image
Yeah that would be my idea of Awesomeness...Posted Image


Its about 11K per frame (worst case - 4 colour changes per line). So a 512K cart would hold 46 frames.

#12 DracIsBack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 6, 2010 7:50 PM

Astoundingly irritating, that. Just the sort of mood I'm sure you were trying to create.


Seriously - was that really necessary?

Edited by DracIsBack, Sat Feb 6, 2010 10:08 PM.


#13 Lord Helmet OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 10:43 AM


Astoundingly irritating, that. Just the sort of mood I'm sure you were trying to create.


Seriously - was that really necessary?


Of course it was...it's Captain Douche...errr...Zylon Bane. It makes him feel big making others feel small.

#14 Underball OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 12:05 PM



Do you have screenshots?

No! Its a surprise when you try out the ROM image ;) :lol:.

And screw everyone who isn't where they can try it.

Astoundingly irritating, that. Just the sort of mood I'm sure you were trying to create.

Zylonbane calling ANYONE else irritating.

you gotta be kidding me.

#15 Crazyace OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 12:06 PM

The first 2 images look pretty green on my 7800 (pal) - is the slideshow designed for PAL or NTSC?

#16 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 12:12 PM

As I mentioned in Post #2 I don't have a PAL palette for the Quantizator tool to target :(. I can probably write something that will map the NTSC colour index into the PAL equivalents in the conversion utility. Its not going to be pretty because PAL has more blue/green than NTSC and NTSC has more yellow/brown.

#17 miker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 1:59 PM

Just ran it... and really haven't felt in love with 7800. :P

Apparently 7800-related version of G2F is required.

Time to ask TeBe, eh? ;)

#18 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 2:20 PM

Just ran it... and really haven't felt in love with 7800. :P


There is always time to convert you ;).

Apparently 7800-related version of G2F is required.


I'm going to try a few more things before I request anything. The 7800 can display 4 of 256 colours per line unlike the A8s which can only do 4 of 128.

Time to ask TeBe, eh? ;)


I'm making a list! :lol:.

#19 Crazyace OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 2:45 PM

As I mentioned in Post #2 I don't have a PAL palette for the Quantizator tool to target :(. I can probably write something that will map the NTSC colour index into the PAL equivalents in the conversion utility. Its not going to be pretty because PAL has more blue/green than NTSC and NTSC has more yellow/brown.


I'd forgotten the suckiness of the PAL colours... I guess I need to find a NTSC 7800 somehow :)

#20 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 3:05 PM

I'd forgotten the suckiness of the PAL colours... I guess I need to find a NTSC 7800 somehow :)


The 7800's PAL palette is not that bad. It would have been better with an extra shade of brown/yellow/gold instead of all the blue/green.

#21 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 4:55 PM

Seriously - was that really necessary?

Yes. That sort of "Tee-hee it's a secret tee-hee!" behavior must be crushed with extreme prejudice. If he really wants to show something off, then he should just show it, not make people jump through hoops.

It's (unfortunately) a common enough behavior in modding communities that I have a pre-existing antipathy to it.

#22 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 5:26 PM

Yes. That sort of "Tee-hee it's a secret tee-hee!" behavior must be crushed with extreme prejudice. If he really wants to show something off, then he should just show it, not make people jump through hoops.


You clearly don't appreciate the fact that the current versions of the 7800 emulators do not behave correctly with MARIA DMA and CPU interaction. The ProSystem emulator would allow you to change all 12 colours per line in 160B mode and the result would look fantastic in the emulator. However, there would not be enough available CPU time per video line on the real hardware to do it. Therefore posting images taken from the emulator when you start pushing the machine is a complete waste of time in my opinion.

I don't have anything against the authors of the 7800 emulators because they are easily good enough to play the back catalogue of games produced for the system. How long before they can't cope with new games that push the machine I can't predict :(. However, I'm sure we'll get close to a cycle accurate emulator in the future.

#23 Shawn Sr. OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 8:54 PM

Really cool Mark, The space themed image is my favorite. (I think that is vauge enough not to give anything away :) )

#24 nonner242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:52 PM

Really cool Mark, The space themed image is my favorite. (I think that is vauge enough not to give anything away Posted Image )



Too vague...I dont even get it, and I know it!Posted Image
Its like saying "Hey man my house is next to the second dune in a desert somewhere out where eagles dare!Posted Image

#25 Mitch ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 10:32 PM

I don't have anything against the authors of the 7800 emulators because they are easily good enough to play the back catalogue of games produced for the system. How long before they can't cope with new games that push the machine I can't predict :(. However, I'm sure we'll get close to a cycle accurate emulator in the future.


I think the author of the ProSystem emu is working on a major rewrite. Also, Art Krewat seems to be taking in interest in updating the 7800 driver in MESS. So maybe 7800 emulation will be seeing some major updates in the not too distant future. I'm sure 7800 developers will appreciate that. :)

Too vague...I dont even get it, and I know it!Posted Image
Its like saying "Hey man my house is next to the second dune in a desert somewhere out where eagles dare!Posted Image


She's fast enough for you old man. :ponder:

Mitch




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