A Couple Questions about DOS

[jeremysart]

My first question is pertaining to installing and upgrading MS-DOS on a 386 or later PC.

I want to Install Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 on the same PC, should I be able to do this by installing MS-DOS 5, and then upgrading it to MS-DOS 6 (or later, which is as required to install 3.1) ?

 

The second question is about DOS (PC, IMB, or MS) on an IBM PC 5150. There are no hard drives on these computers, they just come loaded with IBM Basic. How do you "install" DOS on a system with no hard drive? My 5150 has dual 5 1/4 floppies. To run older games that require DOS, should I obtain DOS (what version is required or do you recommend for this PC) for on drive, and use the game in the other??

 

Its been so long, I just don't remember.

 

I have been doing research, I know which versions of DOS are need, I just haven't grasped exactly how to go about this, I just don't want to buy the wrong stuff, and it would be nice to know what I'm doing when I start.

 

Thanks !

[oracle_jedi]

The second question is about DOS (PC, IMB, or MS) on an IBM PC 5150. There are no hard drives on these computers, they just come loaded with IBM Basic. How do you "install" DOS on a system with no hard drive? My 5150 has dual 5 1/4 floppies. To run older games that require DOS, should I obtain DOS (what version is required or do you recommend for this PC) for on drive, and use the game in the other??

 

You need a DOS boot floppy. Place the boot floppy in drive A and turn on, the PC should recognize the floppy and load up DOS, leaving you at the "A:" prompt after a little while.

 

Do you know how much RAM you have on that beast? It should report memory at power up. Hopefully you have at least 512K.

 

Assuming you do, you should be ok with anything up to DOS 4, maybe even DOS 5.

 

Looking at Ebay something like auction 120532436138 should work here, but make sure its a 360K disk, not a 1.2Mb.

 

HTH.

[jeremysart]

The second question is about DOS (PC, IMB, or MS) on an IBM PC 5150. There are no hard drives on these computers, they just come loaded with IBM Basic. How do you "install" DOS on a system with no hard drive? My 5150 has dual 5 1/4 floppies. To run older games that require DOS, should I obtain DOS (what version is required or do you recommend for this PC) for on drive, and use the game in the other??

 

You need a DOS boot floppy. Place the boot floppy in drive A and turn on, the PC should recognize the floppy and load up DOS, leaving you at the "A:" prompt after a little while.

 

Do you know how much RAM you have on that beast? It should report memory at power up. Hopefully you have at least 512K.

 

Assuming you do, you should be ok with anything up to DOS 4, maybe even DOS 5.

 

Looking at Ebay something like auction 120532436138 should work here, but make sure its a 360K disk, not a 1.2Mb.

 

HTH.

 

It says 62940 bytes free after booting to IBM Basic. Assuming my elementary memory is correct, would that not translate to less than a 100K ? Yikes.

But assuming that is correct, I wonder then why the computer was upgraded.. all but one expansion slots are filled (they all appear to be peripherals with serial ports, one clearly for a printer, none appear to be for a modem.) and the video card was upgraded as well, as the CGA with composite output was not standard.

 

*EDIT*

While searching "62940 bytes" I came across this cool online IBM PC 5150 emulator by Wolkenstein http://www.wolkenstein.net/ So I am assuming there is something standard about this amount. ?

Also, it equals 61.465 kilobytes

*EDIT*

 

For the first question, I have been told you cant run Win 95 and DOS together, but to the best of my knowledge Windows 95 USES MS-DOS for a lot of its applications, and DOS does some of the work for 95, so that person was incorrect?

 

It is possible to have 3.1 and 95 on the same PC correct, 3.1 requiring DOS 6 or higher?

Edited February 23, 2010 by jeremysart

[Rybags]

Memory very fuzzy here, but fairly sure some of the early Basics only supported a workarea <64K, so even if you had 2 gig you'd get the same free area.

 

In a way, the early Windows 9x were just plonked on top of DOS, but it's not quite the same as using DOS 6.

 

You should be able to partition the drive and have a menu to boot your choice of DOS, Win3.1, Win95 etc.

 

Or alternatively, just install a second HDD and install DOS on one and Windows on the other. Then use a boot menu, or you could select which drive to boot from within the BIOS menu if it supports it.

[oracle_jedi]

It says 62940 bytes free after booting to IBM Basic. Assuming my elementary memory is correct, would that not translate to less than a 100K ? Yikes.

But assuming that is correct, I wonder then why the computer was upgraded.. all but one expansion slots are filled (they all appear to be peripherals with serial ports, one clearly for a printer, none appear to be for a modem.) and the video card was upgraded as well, as the CGA with composite output was not standard.

 

Cassette BASIC only recognizes 64K, so that number is the same once you reach 64K.

 

The 5150 Motherboard supported either 4 banks of 16K or 4 banks of 64K depending on the model. The earliest models only had 16K factory installed and left three banks unpopulated.

 

To determine actual memory, turn on the unit and watch the memory test complete. It should count the memory 16K at a time until it reaches maximum memory, and then briefly show the final amount before dropping to cassette BASIC or booting the floppy.

 

Here's something else to check - from http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~preid/pcxtsw.htm

 

 

IBM PC

Switch block 1, near center of board:

 

* Switch 1

* off = Boot from floppy

* ON = Don't boot from floppy (goes to Cassette BASIC in ROM)

 

* Switch 2

* off = 8087 Math Chip installed

* ON = 8087 NOT installed

 

* Switch 3,4

* ON,ON = One bank of memory

* off,ON = Two banks

* ON,off = Three banks

* off,off = Four banks

 

* Switch 5,6

* off,off = MDA (or Hercules) Video

* off,ON = 40 column CGA

* ON,off = 80 column CGA

* ON,ON = No video or special (EGA, VGA)

 

* Switch 7,8

* ON,ON = 1 floppy drive

* off,ON = 2 flops

* ON,off = 3 flops

* off,off = 4 flops

 

Switch block 2, near power supply:

 

Switches 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 = Total memory installed

 

* Memory installed - sw1 2 3 4 5

* 16K = ON ON ON ON ON

* 32K = ON ON ON ON ON

* 48K = ON ON ON ON ON

* 64K = ON ON ON ON ON

* 96K = off ON ON ON ON

* 128K = ON off ON ON ON

* 160K = off off ON ON ON

* 192K = ON ON off ON ON

* 224K = off ON off ON ON

* 256K = ON off off ON ON

* 288K = off off off ON ON

* 320K = ON ON ON off ON

* 352K = off ON ON off ON

* 384K = ON off ON off ON

* 416K = off off ON off ON

* 448K = ON ON off off ON

* 480K = off ON off off ON

* 512K = ON off off off ON

* 544K = off off off off ON

* 576K = ON ON ON ON off

* 608K = off ON ON ON off

* 640K = ON off ON ON off

 

* Switches 6, 7, 8

* Always off

 

HTH

[monzamess]

A PC without a hard drive is a lot like any other 8-bit home computer with no HD.

 

Many games will boot up directly without needing a DOS disk at all.

 

When you do boot into DOS, you then remove the DOS disk and put in whatever disk you're working with. DOS stays in memory. If you have two drives you can keep the DOS disk in A: and put the other disk in B: but don't be surprised if some really bad programs are hard-coded to run from A: only.

[jeremysart]

Thanks for the insight. It has been over 12 years since I last use raw DOS, or even Win 3.1 for that matter (which is a lot like dos when it comes to running and installing programs.)

I feel watered down that I knew all the DOS commands and routines, and how to install and run programs so easily then, but draw a blank now

[jeremysart]

internet lag = double post

Edited February 23, 2010 by jeremysart

[accousticguitar]

My first question is pertaining to installing and upgrading MS-DOS on a 386 or later PC.

I want to Install Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 on the same PC, should I be able to do this by installing MS-DOS 5, and then upgrading it to MS-DOS 6 (or later, which is as required to install 3.1) ?

I've done that.

[jeremysart]

Well, I dug up one of my old IBM PC Compatible games (Shanghai Dragon Eye II) and wen I popped it in it said "Non system disk or disk error", so I tried another disk, an accidentally opened/un-parked the 5 1/4 while it was trying to read the disk.

Now when it boots to Basic, the buttons on the keyboard are all coming up wrong, some buttons make random jargon (ie:Xzdfg3)

Now wtf?

 

I have two clicky keyboards, I tested the other to make sure it wasn't a keyboard error, and it is not the case

[Herbarius]

My first question is pertaining to installing and upgrading MS-DOS on a 386 or later PC.

I want to Install Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 on the same PC, should I be able to do this by installing MS-DOS 5, and then upgrading it to MS-DOS 6 (or later, which is as required to install 3.1) ?

 

First you should install MS-DOS 6 and Windows 3.1 like normal. You can decide whether you will want to install Windows 3.1 to C:\WINDOWS or rather to something like C:\WIN31. Also think about where you want to install Windows 95, if it will be C:\WINDOWS or C:\WIN95. From now on I'll continue this as if you want Windows 3.1 in C:\WIN31 and Windows 95 in C:\WIN95. If you want other directories, replace the corresponding parts in my description.

 

Exit Windows 3.x if it's still running and go back to the DOS prompt.

 

Copy the Windows 3.x directory with this command:

XCOPY C:\WIN31\*.* C:\WIN95\*.* /e /v

 

Backup your DOS directory with this command:

XCOPY C:\DOS\*.* C:\DOSBAK\*.* /e /v

(This is because the Windows 95 installation will delete files from the DOS directory)

 

Now create copies your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS:

COPY C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT C:\AUTOEXEC.3X

COPY C:\CONFIG.SYS C:\CONFIG.3X

(the .3X-Version will be kept for DOS6/Win3)

 

Edit both the AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS file (not the .3X !)

EDIT C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT

EDIT C:\CONFIG.SYS

and replace every occurence of C:\WIN31 with C:\WIN95.

If you've got the command to run Windows (WIN) in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, remove it, you won't need that anymore.

 

Now change into the WIN95 directory

CD \WIN95

 

and enter the following command:

FOR %F IN (C:\WIN95\*.INI) DO EDIT %F

This will open every INI-File in the Win95-Directory one at a time. Again, in each file, replace all occurences of C:\WIN31 with C:\WIN95

 

Now reboot the computer, then change again into the WIN95 directory, then run the Windows that's in there.

CD \WIN95

WIN

 

Select Run... from the File menu in Program Manager and enter the command

regedit /v

Now again, replace every occurence of C:\WIN31 with C:\WIN95. Unfortunately you can't use a search&replace feature here, so you'll have to carefully examine each line.

 

After you're done, exit Windows, if necessary reboot your machine again, and install Windows 95 like normal. It will automatically install into your C:\WIN95 directory, updating the Windows 3.x that's in there, while leaving the C:\WIN3X directory untouched.

 

After the installation of Windows 95, use Windows Explorer or the command prompt to delete the C:\DOS directory and to rename C:\DOSBAK to C:\DOS. If you do it via the command prompt, the commands are

DELTREE C:\DOS

MOVE C:\DOSBAK C:\DOS

 

Also, rename the AUTOEXEC.3X and CONFIG.3X files in root directory to AUTOEXEC.DOS and CONFIG.DOS. If there are already AUTOEXEC.DOS/CONFIG.DOS files, delete them. If you do it via the command prompt, the commands are

CD \

COPY AUTOEXEC.3X AUTOEXEC.DOS

COPY CONFIG.3X CONFIG.DOS

DEL *.3X

 

Almost done now. We only have to edit the MSDOS.SYS now and change it, so you'll get the option of booting DOS6/Win3x instead of DOS7/Win95. Use the command prompt:

CD \

ATTRIB -r -s -h MSDOS.SYS

EDIT MSDOS.SYS

This will open the MSDOS.SYS in MS-DOS Editor.

Insert an additional line between "[Options]" and "BootGUI=1":

BootMulti=1

 

Now, the next time you boot up your machine and press F8 at the right moment (when "Starting Windows 95..." appears) you'll have an additional option in the appearing Boot Menu to run the "previous MS-DOS version". If you don't press F8, it will automatically run Windows 95.

If you do not want to have to press F8, but want the Menu to appear automatically, also add this line (e.g. between "BootMulti" and "BootGUI"):

BootMenu=1

 

After you're done editing the MSDOS.SYS, save it and exit the MS-DOS editor, then use this command to restore the write-protect/system/hidden attributes to the file:

ATTRIB +r +s +h MSDOS.SYS

 

 

That's it. You can now reboot your machine and then choose between both versions of Windows.

 

 

Of course there are other ways to do it, but I think you should consider it.

You can of course only use FAT16 for your C: partition this way, so you're limited to 2GB max, but for a 386 machine this isn't that big of a deal, I think.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Herbarius

[jeremysart]

My first question is pertaining to installing and upgrading MS-DOS on a 386 or later PC.

I want to Install Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 on the same PC, should I be able to do this by installing MS-DOS 5, and then upgrading it to MS-DOS 6 (or later, which is as required to install 3.1) ?

 

First you should install MS-DOS 6 and Windows 3.1 like normal. You can decide whether you will want to install Windows 3.1 to C:\WINDOWS or rather to something like C:\WIN31. Also think about where you want to install Windows 95, if it will be C:\WINDOWS or C:\WIN95. From now on I'll continue this as if you want Windows 3.1 in C:\WIN31 and Windows 95 in C:\WIN95. If you want other directories, replace the corresponding parts in my description.

 

Exit Windows 3.x if it's still running and go back to the DOS prompt.

 

Copy the Windows 3.x directory with this command:

XCOPY C:\WIN31\*.* C:\WIN95\*.* /e /v

 

Backup your DOS directory with this command:

XCOPY C:\DOS\*.* C:\DOSBAK\*.* /e /v

(This is because the Windows 95 installation will delete files from the DOS directory)

 

Now create copies your AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS:

COPY C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT C:\AUTOEXEC.3X

COPY C:\CONFIG.SYS C:\CONFIG.3X

(the .3X-Version will be kept for DOS6/Win3)

 

Edit both the AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS file (not the .3X !)

EDIT C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT

EDIT C:\CONFIG.SYS

and replace every occurence of C:\WIN31 with C:\WIN95.

If you've got the command to run Windows (WIN) in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, remove it, you won't need that anymore.

 

Now change into the WIN95 directory

CD \WIN95

 

and enter the following command:

FOR %F IN (C:\WIN95\*.INI) DO EDIT %F

This will open every INI-File in the Win95-Directory one at a time. Again, in each file, replace all occurences of C:\WIN31 with C:\WIN95

 

Now reboot the computer, then change again into the WIN95 directory, then run the Windows that's in there.

CD \WIN95

WIN

 

Select Run... from the File menu in Program Manager and enter the command

regedit /v

Now again, replace every occurence of C:\WIN31 with C:\WIN95. Unfortunately you can't use a search&replace feature here, so you'll have to carefully examine each line.

 

After you're done, exit Windows, if necessary reboot your machine again, and install Windows 95 like normal. It will automatically install into your C:\WIN95 directory, updating the Windows 3.x that's in there, while leaving the C:\WIN3X directory untouched.

 

After the installation of Windows 95, use Windows Explorer or the command prompt to delete the C:\DOS directory and to rename C:\DOSBAK to C:\DOS. If you do it via the command prompt, the commands are

DELTREE C:\DOS

MOVE C:\DOSBAK C:\DOS

 

Also, rename the AUTOEXEC.3X and CONFIG.3X files in root directory to AUTOEXEC.DOS and CONFIG.DOS. If there are already AUTOEXEC.DOS/CONFIG.DOS files, delete them. If you do it via the command prompt, the commands are

CD \

COPY AUTOEXEC.3X AUTOEXEC.DOS

COPY CONFIG.3X CONFIG.DOS

DEL *.3X

 

Almost done now. We only have to edit the MSDOS.SYS now and change it, so you'll get the option of booting DOS6/Win3x instead of DOS7/Win95. Use the command prompt:

CD \

ATTRIB -r -s -h MSDOS.SYS

EDIT MSDOS.SYS

This will open the MSDOS.SYS in MS-DOS Editor.

Insert an additional line between "[Options]" and "BootGUI=1":

BootMulti=1

 

Now, the next time you boot up your machine and press F8 at the right moment (when "Starting Windows 95..." appears) you'll have an additional option in the appearing Boot Menu to run the "previous MS-DOS version". If you don't press F8, it will automatically run Windows 95.

If you do not want to have to press F8, but want the Menu to appear automatically, also add this line (e.g. between "BootMulti" and "BootGUI"):

BootMenu=1

 

After you're done editing the MSDOS.SYS, save it and exit the MS-DOS editor, then use this command to restore the write-protect/system/hidden attributes to the file:

ATTRIB +r +s +h MSDOS.SYS

 

 

That's it. You can now reboot your machine and then choose between both versions of Windows.

 

 

Of course there are other ways to do it, but I think you should consider it.

You can of course only use FAT16 for your C: partition this way, so you're limited to 2GB max, but for a 386 machine this isn't that big of a deal, I think.

 

This is the most comprehensive walk-through anyone has ever taken the time to type out for me. That was above and beyond, thanks, and I mean it! :thumbsup:

[Seob]

Thought xcopy was something from the last msdos version, and only works if you have enough memory free. Since it uses system memory to store data temporary.

 

Did you turn of the computer when you got that strange screen after swapping disks? Old computers can hold data in memory for some sort time after powering down. If switched on to quick it will read data from memory, that may have been corrupted.

When using a dos disk you can specify the keyboard layout when booting. You could set it to a different set.