TI99 Robotron

[darthkur]

Most people here probably know about the Robotron ROM/BIN file that was discovered and released some time ago. My question is has this ever been converted to a disk file that could be played on actual hardware? I have the BIN file but I'd sure love to get a DSK file for it. Anyone know how to convert between the two?

[tjb]

Interesting. I didn't know about it.

 

tjb

[Tursi]

Was covered here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/135727-ti-994a-robotron-2084/

 

I hacked it for two joysticks, I never mentioned that here, I guess. My hack isn't online anymore (I thought someone else was going to host it, hehe), but I can post it again I guess if anyone cares.

[jaybird3rd]

Was covered here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/135727-ti-994a-robotron-2084/

 

I hacked it for two joysticks, I never mentioned that here, I guess. My hack isn't online anymore (I thought someone else was going to host it, hehe), but I can post it again I guess if anyone cares.

Yes, please! I'd love to try it on a real 99/4A!

[+save2600]

Yes please +1

 

Tutankham too if you have it... J/K!!

[Hatta]

Is it even possible to hack a cartridge game to work from disk? I think the best you can do is burning it to an EPROM.

[zylon]

I used to have a program called Kartridge Kracker for the c64. I was able to use it to copy 5 or 6 carts onto a floppy disk. If such a prog. still existed and could by rewritten for the ti99, you'd be able to do it.

[darthkur]

Was covered here: http://www.atariage....-robotron-2084/

 

I hacked it for two joysticks, I never mentioned that here, I guess. My hack isn't online anymore (I thought someone else was going to host it, hehe), but I can post it again I guess if anyone cares.

 

 

Yes, I most definitely care. Please do post it. That would be great.

 

Yes please +1

 

Tutankham too if you have it... J/K!!

 

Why kid? If anyone does have Tutankham please make it available so everyone can enjoy it.

 

Is it even possible to hack a cartridge game to work from disk? I think the best you can do is burning it to an EPROM.

 

 

You most definitely can. In fact here's a folder chock full of just that:

 

Modules_on_Disk.zip

[Shannon]

Was covered here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/135727-ti-994a-robotron-2084/

 

I hacked it for two joysticks, I never mentioned that here, I guess. My hack isn't online anymore (I thought someone else was going to host it, hehe), but I can post it again I guess if anyone cares.

Yes, please! I'd love to try it on a real 99/4A!

Hacked version please!

[Tursi]

It's still cartridge binary ROMs, so you'll only be able to play on Emulator or with a bank switching cart like the 64k carts Jon Guidry makes.

 

I overwrote some of the text on the first title page to store the second joystick code, and it may also interfere with some of the menu select (but I don't know that that worked 100% anyway). At any rate, the files are named so that you can load them into Classic99 with the Cartridge->User option. They should work burned to EPROM too on a bank switching cart.

 

RoboTr2J.zip

Edited March 4, 2010 by Tursi

[+retroclouds]

Yes please +1

 

Tutankham too if you have it... J/K!!

 

Tutankham is currently available as a prototype to 1 single person in the TI community.

It is a prototype cartridge and no binaries are available. Check here.

 

However, I have recently started my own version which is a direct conversion from the Colecovision game.

If all works out well, it will be my next homebrew cartridge project.

[darthkur]

It's still cartridge binary ROMs, so you'll only be able to play on Emulator or with a bank switching cart like the 64k carts Jon Guidry makes.

 

I overwrote some of the text on the first title page to store the second joystick code, and it may also interfere with some of the menu select (but I don't know that that worked 100% anyway). At any rate, the files are named so that you can load them into Classic99 with the Cartridge->User option. They should work burned to EPROM too on a bank switching cart.

 

RoboTr2J.zip

 

Thanks for that. I still wish I could get a dsk image made out of it. I wish I knew how. Having it on a cart would be very nice too. I'll have to see about that. I notice that there's two different versions in the folder. What is the difference between the two?

 

 

 

 

Tutankham is currently available as a prototype to 1 single person in the TI community.

It is a prototype cartridge and no binaries are available. Check here.

 

However, I have recently started my own version which is a direct conversion from the Colecovision game.

If all works out well, it will be my next homebrew cartridge project.

 

 

I was just hoping, vainly obviously, that whoever it was that is currently hording it owns it would have found the desire to share it with the community.

I'm very glad to hear that you're working on your own version. I'm very much looking forward to it.

[Tursi]

Thanks for that. I still wish I could get a dsk image made out of it. I wish I knew how. Having it on a cart would be very nice too. I'll have to see about that. I notice that there's two different versions in the folder. What is the difference between the two?

 

You would need to relocate the program to run from RAM instead of ROM. It's not a trivial exercise to make it run from disk.

 

There's only one version of the game - what you see there is a convention in TI ROM emulation - the C file is the first 8k bank, the D file is the second 8k bank. Both are needed to run the game.

 

MESS finally introduced a format that brings all the separate files together, but I haven't implemented it in Classic99 yet so haven't been using it.

[Hatta]

You would need to relocate the program to run from RAM instead of ROM. It's not a trivial exercise to make it run from disk.

 

I see you have a utility that converts programs to ROMs. Why is it harder to do it the other way around?

[oracle_jedi]

I used to have a program called Kartridge Kracker for the c64. I was able to use it to copy 5 or 6 carts onto a floppy disk. If such a prog. still existed and could by rewritten for the ti99, you'd be able to do it.

 

Not really.

 

The TI's memory map is different from the C64/Atari model.

 

The cartridge port uses an 8K block of memory that no memory expansion can populate. AFAIK it simply isnt possible to populate that address space with anything connected via the expansion port on the side. Therefore even you could copy the program data from the cartridge to disk, you cant load it back into memory because that memory does not exist.

 

There are a few devices that place memory in this location, the most popular of which is the Gram Kracker device. The last one sold for over $500 on Ebay. Amongst other things, that allows you to copy cartridge programs to disk and then load them back again. However, I don't think the Gram Kracker could handle the bank-switching mechanism used by any cartridge game larger than 8K - including Robotron.

 

The Gram Kracker attaches to the cartridge port, not the expansion port.

 

As Tursi said, you would need to copy the program code and then rework it to run from the 32K memory expansion, relocating the code and reworking the bank switching mechanism. It's been done before with games like Centipede and Dig Dug - but its way beyond my knowledge of the TI!

Edited March 4, 2010 by oracle_jedi

[jaybird3rd]

It's still cartridge binary ROMs, so you'll only be able to play on Emulator or with a bank switching cart like the 64k carts Jon Guidry makes.

 

I overwrote some of the text on the first title page to store the second joystick code, and it may also interfere with some of the menu select (but I don't know that that worked 100% anyway). At any rate, the files are named so that you can load them into Classic99 with the Cartridge->User option. They should work burned to EPROM too on a bank switching cart.

 

RoboTr2J.zip

Thank you! I'm looking forward to trying this on the real hardware. I don't have a problem burning it to an EPROM; I just need to find out where to get a compatible cartridge board. I'm assuming that all I need to do is concatenate the two 8K binaries together and burn them to a 27C128?

[darthkur]

I used to have a program called Kartridge Kracker for the c64. I was able to use it to copy 5 or 6 carts onto a floppy disk. If such a prog. still existed and could by rewritten for the ti99, you'd be able to do it.

 

Not really.

 

The TI's memory map is different from the C64/Atari model.

 

The cartridge port uses an 8K block of memory that no memory expansion can populate. AFAIK it simply isnt possible to populate that address space with anything connected via the expansion port on the side. Therefore even you could copy the program data from the cartridge to disk, you cant load it back into memory because that memory does not exist.

 

There are a few devices that place memory in this location, the most popular of which is the Gram Kracker device. The last one sold for over $500 on Ebay. Amongst other things, that allows you to copy cartridge programs to disk and then load them back again. However, I don't think the Gram Kracker could handle the bank-switching mechanism used by any cartridge game larger than 8K - including Robotron.

 

The Gram Kracker attaches to the cartridge port, not the expansion port.

 

As Tursi said, you would need to copy the program code and then rework it to run from the 32K memory expansion, relocating the code and reworking the bank switching mechanism. It's been done before with games like Centipede and Dig Dug - but its way beyond my knowledge of the TI!

 

I have a Gram Kracker. If it could handle the bank-switching then in theory I could get it on a dsk image. Then again I would have to know what I'm doing.......and I don't.

[Tursi]

You would need to relocate the program to run from RAM instead of ROM. It's not a trivial exercise to make it run from disk.

 

I see you have a utility that converts programs to ROMs. Why is it harder to do it the other way around?

 

You're making a bad assumption about what my program does.

 

It takes a program that normally loads from disk to RAM, and copies the files into a ROM file. It then prepends a tiny little program that copies to RAM. So the program was written to run from RAM, and still does.

 

These cartridges are written to run from ROM. It's a different memory space than RAM -- if you copy them to RAM, they will attempt to jump back into ROM, but the program won't be there, and they will crash.

 

You basically need to go through and change all the address references for both data and code to point to locations in RAM instead of in ROM, then it will work. I've done such a tweak once but it's not a simple task.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Tursi

[Tursi]

Thank you! I'm looking forward to trying this on the real hardware. I don't have a problem burning it to an EPROM; I just need to find out where to get a compatible cartridge board. I'm assuming that all I need to do is concatenate the two 8K binaries together and burn them to a 27C128?

 

You also need a flipflop on the board to do the switch. Jon Guidry offered up a whole bunch of new cart kits for just that, I think there's still time to get in on that buy. http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/155089-ti-994a-64k-cart-board-2nd-run/

[Hatta]

 

It takes a program that normally loads from disk to RAM, and copies the files into a ROM file. It then prepends a tiny little program that copies to RAM. So the program was written to run from RAM, and still does.

 

OIC, very interesting. Would something like a Supercart make the reverse possible (in theory)? Or is that for something else entirely?

[Tursi]

OIC, very interesting. Would something like a Supercart make the reverse possible (in theory)? Or is that for something else entirely?

 

Yes, actually, for a single-bank game, anyway. I don't know for sure but I believe the various bank switched Supercarts used a different scheme for switching.