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Wizard of Wor.


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#1 CV Gus OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:16 PM

I am looking forward to this game.

Will it have voice synthesis?

Will it require the "super module?"

#2 Protestari OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:43 PM

If this game were to come out for the colecovision it needs to have voice synthesis, I have already played versions on the Atari 5200 and C64 without voice synthesis

and I would like the best version of this game to be on the coleco to set it apart from the rest.


Edited by Protestari, Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:44 PM.


#3 InfraMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:47 AM

Is someone actually working on this? I don't remember seeing anything about it.

 

Would be awesome, though... WoW has always been one of my favorite games!



#4 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:39 AM

I'd say your expectations are a little high if you expect a ColecoVision to produce voice synthesis without freezing the game while the voice sample runs.

#5 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:28 PM

We can actually produce some animations while playing back voice, as you are going to see with DKA, but it is mostly impractical during actual gameplay.



#6 CrazyBoss OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:54 PM

I agree of cause it could be done, if you have enough Z80 Cycles to "waste". And very clever programming, some games waste a lot of time waiting for the next interrupt. In that time they could play sound including samples, but its not so easy to do, but its not impossible :) Not that I like to try ;) - A few MSX games have speech - like "Oh Shit" (pacman) and "Snake it", both dont playback speech "multi tasking" but the game stops.

What you need to do is to interrupt your game, and create some kind of "multi tasking" just very tiny bits, then the player will not notice.

#7 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:27 PM

What you need to do is to interrupt your game, and create some kind of "multi tasking" just very tiny bits, then the player will not notice.


Right. You really need to build your game code around the concept of sound data being outputted without obstruction from the rest of the game logic. Not an easy thing to do on a ColecoVision.

#8 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:32 PM

And not enough CPU cycles for any reasonable sampling rates...



#9 youki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:20 AM

What you need to do is to interrupt your game, and create some kind of "multi tasking" just very tiny bits, then the player will not notice.

 

It is more or less the technic i had used  in my Berzek attempt version  , it works well for Robotic voice. The result is audible.  But can not be really applicable to all kind of game.



#10 Bill Loguidice ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 8:47 AM

If this game were to come out for the colecovision it needs to have voice synthesis, I have already played versions on the Atari 5200 and C64 without voice synthesis

and I would like the best version of this game to be on the coleco to set it apart from the rest.

 

The C-64 version actually supports speech synthesis with the Magic Voice cartridge. Other than arcade emulated versions for more modern platforms, I'm not aware of any other home version having speech.



#11 Bill Loguidice ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 8:49 AM

Speaking of speech synthesis, there's no chance for a solution like the Atari/VecVox to be adapted (or used as inspiration for a new creation) for the ColecoVision, right? 



#12 FujiSkunk OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 9:29 AM

Funny you should mention the AtariVox.  Nukey Shay has been tinkering with 2600 Wizard of Wor so that it can do speech through the AtariVox.  Linky.



#13 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 9:31 AM

Speaking of speech synthesis, there's no chance for a solution like the Atari/VecVox to be adapted (or used as inspiration for a new creation) for the ColecoVision, right? 

 

I think reusing the SGM's casing with different electronics inside to facilitate voice synthesis would make a nice homebrew project, but I don't think anyone out there will ever bother to do it, especially considering said homebrewer would be morally obligated to make versions of Berzerk, Wizard of Wor and Gorf for his little hardware add-on.  :)

 

And then there would be Bomb Squad and Space Spartans to convert from the Intellivision...

 

And then there would be Parsec to convert from the TI-99/4A...

 

It would be endless...!  :-o



#14 FujiSkunk OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 9:40 AM

I think reusing the SGM's casing with different electronics inside to facilitate voice synthesis would make a nice homebrew project...


Would a new project really be necessarily, though? the AtariVox plugs into the controller port. Does the ColecoVision support two-way I/O through the controller ports the same way the 2600 does? If so, the only thing necessary would be the programming, and maybe an extension cable in case the AtariVox can't be wedged into a Coleco controller port as is.
 

...I don't think anyone out there will ever bother to do it, especially considering said homebrewer would be morally obligated to make versions of Berzerk, Wizard of Wor and Gorf for his little hardware add-on.  :)
 
And then there would be Bomb Squad and Space Spartans to convert from the Intellivision...
 
And then there would be Parsec to convert from the TI-99/4A...
 
It would be endless...!  :-o


Don't forget Track and Field... and maybe Pole Position, complete with a Japanese language option as an Easter egg.

#15 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 9:52 AM

Seriously, how hard would it be to make an add-on that could output pre-recorded samples without requiring the CPU's continuous involvement?

 

With today's CV carts (i.e. the MegaCart) you could place all the speech samples (or other types of complex sound samples) inside the cartridge ROM, and this data would be downloaded to the add-on's RAM at boot time. Then the game software would simply signal the add-on to play a specific sample while the ColecoVision's CPU would be free to do other things.

 

I don't know much about this stuff, so are there off-the-shelf specialized microchips out there that could take such raw sound data and output it to the TV via the CV expansion port, like the SGM does with its integrated MSX sound chip?



#16 slab0meat OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 10:15 AM

Press fire to begin



#17 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 11:08 AM

You cannot use off the shelf parts for that, as it wouldn't fit inside the SGM case. Actually I was considering a new SGM with the real PSG replaced by a FPGA implementing the PSG + SCC + wave.


Edited by opcode, Tue Apr 1, 2014 11:10 AM.


#18 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 11:19 AM

You cannot use off the shelf parts for that, as it wouldn't fit inside the SGM case. Actually I was considering a new SGM with the real PSG replaced by a FPGA implementing the PSG + SCC + wave.

 

Interesting. So if a FPGA were to be programmed to spit out raw sound data like speech samples, can you give me a ballpark figure of how much RAM would be needed to store a set of samples (which would have been previously downloaded from the cart)?



#19 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 11:45 AM

 

Interesting. So if a FPGA were to be programmed to spit out raw sound data like speech samples, can you give me a ballpark figure of how much RAM would be needed to store a set of samples (which would have been previously downloaded from the cart)?

 

That depends on how much speech you are planning. But I suppose that at a reasonable sampling rate, 256Kb would be more than enough. That is what most arcades from the late 80s, early 90s used. And that also depends on if the FPGA would be using PCM or ADPCM...



#20 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 11:51 AM

I think one elegant way would be to just create an advanced version of the SCC chip, which is already a wave player, and just include more RAM. The original had a pretty small wave table, just 32 bytes per sample, enough for simple waveforms, so an idea would be to create a couple of extra sound channels to handle sample playback, with pointers to specify start and end addresses in the sound RAM.



#21 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 12:20 PM

I think one elegant way would be to just create an advanced version of the SCC chip, which is already a wave player, and just include more RAM. The original had a pretty small wave table, just 32 bytes per sample, enough for simple waveforms, so an idea would be to create a couple of extra sound channels to handle sample playback, with pointers to specify start and end addresses in the sound RAM.

 

Sounds cool. So can you whip up a prototype by tomorrow afternoon?  :P



#22 NIAD OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 12:35 PM

You just can't leave out Sinistar when discussing possible games. Who could ever forget, "I LIVE" or the roar when he was attacking you ship.

#23 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:23 PM

 

Sounds cool. So can you whip up a prototype by tomorrow afternoon?  :P

 

Actually the prototype is done...

 

But for some reason I just cannot find where I placed it... And unfortunately if I don't find it by midnight today, it is going to disintegrate...



#24 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 2:24 PM

 

Actually the prototype is done...

 

But for some reason I just cannot find where I placed it... And unfortunately if I don't find it by midnight today, it is going to disintegrate...

 

Hold on, I'll get a friend to drive me to your place and we'll look for it together.  :D



#25 Kiwi OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 1, 2014 3:29 PM

Could the 6 tone generaters and 2 noise channels produce voices.  I think it may be possible to do voices that way without freezing the game. 






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