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Nolan Bushnell Appointed to Atari Board


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#726 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:17 AM

Owen, you're entitled to your opinions as to whether you like the Odyssey or not. But this is bordering on trash talking again when it was stated all parties agreed to move on.

As I said, it is very possible that Nolan sat in discussions of a similar game idea while he was still at Atari,


Nolan already verified, he was mistaken for when he saw the proto at the Chuck-E-Cheese boardroom when they brought over the proto for testing. Confusion cleared.

I also want to address this Ralph issue. The original Odyssey design was junk, and was a true one hit wonder.


Certainly entitled to your opinion.

Yea, there were multiple games, sort of, and every one of them moved the same smeary analog dot around the screen under a static held piece of plastic to make "a game." It was an analog system that drew a blurry single smear on the screen,


That's simply wrong and where opinion takes oversteps for reality. It's a DTL design, unless you're going to tell me flip-flops are an analog circuit?

Posted Image


It required a plastic overlay on the screen to create the playfield.


Magnavox's decision, not Ralph's. One of his incarnations actually used live broadcast playfields via cable in a similar manner to laserdisc games like Atari's FireFox - and in the late 60's. Likewise, they decided to take out the color.

The paddles were also analog and almost impossible to control.


Atari's Pong and 2600 paddles are not analog? They're pots, whose data is based on the voltage of a resistor divider.

It was an idea, it was NOT a design,


Which is an opinion, NOT a fact.

and any similarity between it and the first pong game are purely idea in nature only.


And in patent. There's a reason why time and time again the manipulation and interaction of symbols via a VIDEO signal was upheld in court. We have the direct court testimony, proceedings, and transcripts for most of these cases. There wasn't one analysis of a single component and their purpose left out by lawyers on both sides, and the fact that others had come up with alternative specific circuits to interface with a video signal to generate and manipulate symbols was irrelevant to the actual proceedings and what the patent defense was about.

We're not pulling this out of left field, or as someone snarkily mentioned on facebook, because "It has become trendy online to profess support for the 'other guy'". We are interested in documented facts, plain and simple. No matter who they paint in a good or bad light. I don't recall either Curt and I making excuses for said other guy "seeing a good idea, and being the right person to build it well" with regards to Touch Me/Simon either.

Nolan, seeing a good idea, got the right people to build it well, and Atari was that place. Just because Alcorn was the hardware designer does not nean Nolan was not responsible for the design, or the idea.


I don't recall anyone saying Nolan wasn't responsible taking an idea and having an additional idea on how to improve it, or for bringing the idea to Al, nor for luring Al to taking a job at Syzygy.

Though Al's design process and the ignoring of Nolan's "pie and in the sky" input (crowd noises, etc.) is pretty well documented. Al has more than covered all of that. Al didn't use any of Ted's previous Computer Space circuitry and designed everything circuit wise from scratch, Al didn't use Nolan's idea of a single direction padding and went with an "english" simulator instead (via the segmented paddle), Al added the speedup, Al came up with the characteristic sound, etc. What's left design wise for PONG for someone else to be responsible for?

He knew who to get, didn't he?


Certainly, people from where he had the luck of previously working that had experience in video circuitry design (i.e. via Videofile). It's not a situation like he went out and started souring the valley for people with a reputation. If he and Ted had not had the connection to Ampex/Videofile, would they have known to hire people from there let alone Al? Nolan, Ted Dabney, Steve Mayer, Larry Emmons, Steve Bristow, Al Alcorn all knew each other at Ampex. Certainly these guys all wound up having great talent, but to put things in a neutral perspective you can not discount the reason these specific guys were even contacted in the first place over how many other people working in the electronics industry in the valley?

Nolan was the boss in charge, and as such, had a lot of responsibility for the project as well.


Well....according to Ted he and Al were to busy with PONG to pay attention to Nolan and what he was doing, and that Nolan more maneuvered his way in to "guy in charge" and pushed Ted out. So I can see where you're coming from. Nolan was certainly the guy with "the vision" as Ted also pointed out.

And do not get me started on the patent issue. There was nothing copied, because there was nothing worth copying and copying a "simple idea" itself is not really what we put patents on.


Looks like you already got things started there. The patents were not for "simple ideas", nor was discovering the concepts needed to interface with a broadcast video signal, generate symbols, manipulate those symbols, and support interaction for a game via that signal anything but a "simple idea" in 1966 when the patents were first being filed. That's pure revisionism.

As for what was directly copied from Nolan's visit:

"And Nolan got the idea from that (the Odyssey), but it's like the movie The Producers, because he figured we'd rip off the idea for a game, but so what? It's no good, we're not going to sell it, we'll throw it away, so what harm is there, right? So, it didn't work out that way… they sent us a letter. " -Al Alcorn

"We knew that Bushnell had seen Baer’s game. The concept was to be a
learning experience for Al, not the final product." - Ted Dabney

But there was nothing to copy, it was all analog.


Simply, and absolutely, wrong.


Moving dots on a CRT was long known even before Ralph did it. Playing games on a CRT was long known before Ralph did it.


Except they weren't patents for the moving things on a CRT. They were patents for interfacing, drawing, and moving things via a VIDEO SIGNAL. That's where the term VIDEO game originates from. There is no video signal in a vector driven CRT, which is precisely why your position was shot down time and time again when things like Spacewar or Tennis for Two were brought out. It was never an issue of who did a game on a CRT first. Quit trying to rewrite history. And you of all people, author of some great vector games I absolutely love, I would expect to know the difference between a vector driven display and video driven display.


OK, maybe he got it on the home TV first, but it was awful. I know, I had one. It was completely unplayable.


Which is more of an opinion again, not a fact. Having more sales than the original PONG might say otherwise as well.

And regardless of who George Bush gave some award to,


How childish. Both Nolan and Ralph have received plenty of awards over the last 30 some years, and both men are deserving of them.


I notice that I do not see "Odyssey" printed on the kids pajamas and T-Shirts at Target, but I sure do see a lot of them with an Atari logos on them! Seems the market has decided which was the real winner.


Copying and rewording a portion of Jeremy Holloway's heartfelt though miss guided facebook rant doesn't make it any more valid. Logically it's inaccurate (it should be 'I do not see "Magnavox" printed on kids..'), and it's not a competition on pop-culture references (most of which was generated during the 80's during Ray's tenure, long after said other person left). The actual competition - one of multiple patents based on actual executions and defenses of which were won consistently over a 30 year period - is the real competition that you were addressing here. And it's a thorn in your collective sides that competition was LOST. That's plainly obvious by all the trash talking of Ralph that continues to go on. Even when Ralph has multiple times extended his hand towards said parties in the efforts of clearing the air - only to have it promptly bitten. (And yes, we have copies of the most recent email exchange with that as well).

Enough said, I am going to go get that cookie.

Cheers,


Please do, hopefully it'll give you time to reflect and move on like everyone agreed to.

Edited by wgungfu, Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:36 AM.


#727 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 AM

Very much agreed Owen, Odyssey 1 is total trash -for sure. ;) Pong/home Pong was a real and enjoyably playable game. :)


A) It was Odyssey, not Odyssey 1.

B) You'd have to compare home PONG to the Odyssey 100/200, etc. for that to be logical.

C) Why am I not surprised that's your answer and echoed childish description? Total trash does not sell over 300,000 units as the first game console on the market (establishing the home market itself). And unlike what popped up years later in a certain book that everyone regurgitates from, it was considered a great success in sales at the time. PONG was a success as well at just over 35,000 units, which would also seem a number that's a "failure" when compared to other later coin-op machines that expanded the bounds of what "success". Quite honestly, there's room for everyone and their successes in industry history without an us vs. them downplay mentality. And agreeing to move on in this topic is supposed to mean just that - moving on. Not starting up potshots against a man and unit who had nothing to do with this thread. It smacks of Iraq launching scuds at Israel during the first gulf war. This "battle" was between Nolan, Curt, and I (and has since been settled). Had nothing to do with Ralph or the Odyssey. Once again, we're willing to move on if everyone else is.

Edited by wgungfu, Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:52 AM.


#728 ovalbugmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:12 AM

Hey wangfu, get over it. I am entitled to my opinion of the shitty odyssey: The Odyssey is total crapola and I wouldn't take one if given one. :D Do you have a problem with my opinion? if so then it's you who is acting childish, because adults accept others' opinions.

Don't call me childish because I happen to agree with Owen here either, the Odyssey is Shiite(IMHO). :P DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON ME IF YOU HAVE DISAGREEMENTS WITH OWEN, PAL. Accept other adults opinions without the "my dad can beat up your dad mentality" - who is really acting childish here??????????? man. Just because Ralph has been made aware of this thread and the old man MAY be reading this is no reason for me to sugercoat what the odyssey was(to me), it was not enjoyable to me so I sold mine, just like the multitudes that returned theirs and it's also why it was cancelled, I am sure. It sold 300,000 units because in 1972 that's all there really was for the home. I know it was called "Odyssey" and NOT "Odyssey 1" - I put the "1" there just to be clear that I was not including the Odyssey 2 system in my dissatisfaction with the Odyssey. I DO like the Odyssey 2 system ;) and think it is miles better than the Odyssey 1.

What site are you on anyway wangfu? I think this site is called Atariage, not Magnavox-age. You should expect people to defend Atari here, first and foremost.

If it makes you feel any better opinions are like @$$holes -everyone has one, including you(as well as me). :P

If you and the OP and Curt would have simply taken your personal shit with Nolan into PM or email we would have not had this terrible thread. If you or anybody starts calling me names because you do not agree with my opinion then I will report your post, because I will not be reduced to name calling. Al doesn't want it, so I don't do it.

You'd have to compare home PONG to the Odyssey 100/200, etc. for that to be logical


Was there not a Pong game on the Odyssey?

Why is it that programmers think they are so much better than people who don't program?

#729 ovalbugmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:20 AM

Not starting up potshots against a man and unit who had nothing to do with this thread.


Why is my opinion that the Odyssey sucks considered a "potshot" against Ralph? It was not and I was not thinking it was a shot against Ralph at all, it is my opinion and it differs from your love of the Odyssey. Hey I realize Ralph was the first to get something into the home market and I am thankful he did, I just like Atari's products better -accept it and you move on.

Where does it say in the forum rules that I cannot give my honest opinion on something? It just so happens I don't like your opinion of Nolan, did I accuse you or any other Nolan hater of taking a potshot at him no, I just accepted the bad opinions of him. Al even changed the name of this thread(a potshot in itself) to be civil.

Edited by ovalbugmann, Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:24 AM.


#730 ovalbugmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:27 AM

Oooo.... :ponder: watch out someone is about to give an opinion that conflicts with others' opinions:

Very much agreed Owen, Odyssey 1 is total trash -for sure(IMHO). Pong/home Pong was a real and enjoyably playable game.

Once again, we're willing to move on if everyone else is.


Oh, the anti-Nolan team is going to allow us to move on if we accept your opinions about Nolan, Ralph, early Atari, and the Odyssey?

What does it matter now?, the damage is done. People don't forget, & you have nothing to bargain with. Nolan's visit was trashed and he likely won't be back here(aren't you guys happy!), so I really don't care.

Edited by ovalbugmann, Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:47 AM.


#731 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:33 AM

Oh, geez.... :roll:

#732 ovalbugmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:00 AM

Oh, geez.... :roll:


Yeah, I DO agree with you. :| I was forced to defend my illogical & "childish" and "wrong" opinion of the Odyssey and I had to state the reason I put a "1" in front of Odyssey. If I knew he was going to be so sensitive and concerned what Ralph reads here I would not have given my "wrong" opinion. If I get reprimanded by mods for my opinions here I will know to just go along with the majority opinion on AA in the future or STFU.

Edited by ovalbugmann, Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:02 AM.


#733 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:47 AM


Oh, geez.... :roll:


Yeah, I DO agree with you. :| I was forced to defend my illogical & "childish" and "wrong" opinion..


That's not quite what I was implying, heh.... I won't go into detail. :roll:

Regardless of what I think, it will be interesting to see where this thread has gone when I check back about twelve hours from now.

Edited by Austin, Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:48 AM.


#734 ovalbugmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:15 AM

This "battle" was between Nolan, Curt, and I


The why the hell did you guys take care of it in fricking private then?? Also, you mean between you & Curt vs. Nolan. I truely wish you guys had done so. It was you guys that wanted to air this out in public, start a "worming" Nolan thread, and so now I have stated an opinion on the original Odyssey that you didn't like and belittled as childish. It is only my opinion and it was not to bash Ralph, I was not even thinking of him when I made the remark, it's only a reflection of the entertainment value I got out of the Odyssey.

Next time I hope you all deal with your damn egos, in private(please).

Edited by ovalbugmann, Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:21 AM.


#735 The_Laird OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:32 AM

Maybe because other people were interested in the story and knowing the truth? :ponder:

Edited by The_Laird, Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:33 AM.


#736 ovalbugmann OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:23 AM

A little late to the fight aren't you LG? You want to stick your nose in it now? - fine lets go then lynxman:

A: I don't think arguing back and forth about who the hell did what 30+ years ago is productive in public, and at the same time questioning who really is NolanB in his posts!, because Curt says they don't add up to what he feels Nolan would say. Curt says he's known Nolan for 12+ years then you would think they would have things settled by now, don't you think? I don't know what Bruce Lee's "Gung Fu" has to do with all this or who he is or what he did in the history Videogames but he sure has a beef with "wormy" Nolan to start this thread, knowing there are Nolan fans here. I feel they all should have figured this out in emails, PMs, Facebook, Phone, videoconference, etc. and get to some agreement, THEN come here and explain why history as it's written by people such as Kent are wrong and then present themselves in a coherent, agreeable manner to take questions from the public. This way the public could have gotten in a fan question or two and not be in the middle of a who did the most for videogames trip. That would have been the professional and respectful thing to do.

But no, the OP has a problem with Nolan and he wanted to air it in public, well then your going to get public comments from others such as myself. I only wanted to ask Nolan a Question or two. Point is why start a negative thread like this "wormy Nolan!"(and on an Atari fan site!)for people to disagree with and fight about. I guess some people get off on the chaos and bickering. :P He should have taken care of it directly with Nolan. Curt could have got Marty in touch with Nolan if he doesn't already know him. Then after there is basic agreement then come here and tell where history is wrong and take some questions. I want to the story and truth also LG, but not this way as this will go on and on until the thread is locked.

#737 Ransom OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:02 AM

I did want to address this. There were dozens and dozens of games I had design input to. I am not listed on any of them, or in any lab book notes. Does not make me a liar. That is not unusual, we were quite lazy with our lab books. For example, I sat with the designer (Doug Neubauer) of the Atari 800 game Star Raiders while he was designing it, and doing some of the sounds for the game. I was working on Tunnel Hunt at the time, and I needed some sounds. I liked what I heard, so I spent a lot of time in the lab with him for a week or so helping him tweak sounds, giving feedback, and making the occasional game suggestion. I then went and designed a sound routine to copy the sounds from Star Raiders ( because I did not have his code) into Tunnel Hunt (the shot firing sound.) So, in conversation somewhere, I might say I had my hand in Star Raiders, even though it is not documented anywhere, and I am not sure if Doug would even remember those few days. But that does not make me a liar.

As I said, it is very possible that Nolan sat in discussions of a similar game idea while he was still at Atari, we had LOTS of those discussions, and many were never recorded, or may have been lost as the notes moved around a lot, and were often brought to later meetings and destroyed. I used to enjoy those meetings. Nolan always had great ideas, and even if they were not the actual game, his input was felt on a lot of titles. So perhaps you don't have all the notes? Maybe his input to an earlier discussion of a similar title was not captured, but this does not make him a liar. (I know that many of my early ideas, some of which actually show up in a number of different titles later were never recorded as such.)

During those brain storming sessions, we would look back at older ideas and discussions, or bring up ideas and turn them into new games. Yes, Nolan was not part of the discussion at the later time when it was finally created, but that does not mean his ideas did not help generate the idea i the first place. Your collection is not 100% as you know. That man had more ideas than could ever be recorded. Some good, some not, but they were out there. He also would often just walk into a lab and start throwing out ideas. I believe it was his idea to do a Hit The Bear game which led me to design the Triple Hunt game. I do not think his input is recorded on that is it?


That makes sense, and jibes with the way business is done most of the time in the real world. Everyone's too busy to take copious and careful notes of every little detail. And after nearly 40 years, it's pretty hard for anyone to remember every single suggestion made by every single person they interacted with.

Thanks for pointing that out!

#738 frogstar_robot OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:40 AM

That's simply wrong and where opinion takes oversteps for reality. It's a DTL design, unless you're going to tell me flip-flops are an analog circuit?

Posted Image

ime to reflect and move on like everyone agreed to.


Well if Mr. Rubin is ignorant of that then it does lead creedence to the idea that Baer wasn't the only one capable of figuring out how to use digital logic to generate a video signal. I strongly suspect that nobody at Atari looked to or at any of Baer's circuitry when designing their games. I understand that years later even Nintendo was getting beaten over the head with those patents and I even more strongly suspect they were able to figure that out for themselves.

So Nolan saw Baer's game? I have no trouble believing that. I still doubt he reverse engineered the circuits and handed them to his own engineers. It isn't the idea of Pong that was used to beat the nascent console and arcade industries over the head. It is the presumption that digitally generating video is so leet that anybody else who figures it out owed Baer the Danegeld. IMHO those patents were construed waaaay to widely.

Given a sane judicial system, let Baer have exclusivity on using DTL discretes to generate video and Magnavox more than welcome to it.

#739 Curt Vendel OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:44 AM

{sigh}

....I need to go buy some more cookies....

#740 Tempest ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:57 AM

Ok I'm going to say this only ONCE more. Keep it civil, keep it respectful, and keep the personal attacks out of it or I will close this thread. I'd really hate to do that since outside of a few people this thread has been a wonderful source of information and debate, but I've gotten several complaints from different people and I can't sit by and allow the thread to deteriorate into childish name calling.

Ye be warned.

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#741 frogstar_robot OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:08 AM

Ok I'm going to say this only ONCE more. Keep it civil, keep it respectful, and keep the personal attacks out of it or I will close this thread. I'd really hate to do that since outside of a few people this thread has been a wonderful source of information and debate, but I've gotten several complaints from different people and I can't sit by and allow the thread to deteriorate into childish name calling.

Ye be warned.

Tempest


Er, if my post provoked that I didn't name call. It is true I often take a dim view of the way patents are granted and used. So I have some dislike of the history around Baer's patent but I still don't see how I insulted him or Marty.

#742 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:52 AM

Er, if my post provoked that I didn't name call. It is true I often take a dim view of the way patents are granted and used. So I have some dislike of the history around Baer's patent but I still don't see how I insulted him or Marty.


I don't think he was referring to you, and regardless of whether I agree with the relevancy of what you stated, I thought it was done very respectfully.

#743 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:36 AM

Hey wangfu, get over it. I am entitled to my opinion of the shitty odyssey: The Odyssey is total crapola and I wouldn't take one if given one. :D Do you have a problem with my opinion? if so then it's you who is acting childish, because adults accept others' opinions.


You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it does come across as ill-informed ranting, which is not helpful.

Don't call me childish because I happen to agree with Owen here either, the Odyssey is Shiite(IMHO). :P DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON ME IF YOU HAVE DISAGREEMENTS WITH OWEN, PAL. Accept other adults opinions without the "my dad can beat up your dad mentality" - who is really acting childish here??????????? man. Just because Ralph has been made aware of this thread and the old man MAY be reading this is no reason for me to sugercoat what the odyssey was(to me), it was not enjoyable to me so I sold mine, just like the multitudes that returned theirs and it's also why it was cancelled, I am sure. It sold 300,000 units because in 1972 that's all there really was for the home. I know it was called "Odyssey" and NOT "Odyssey 1" - I put the "1" there just to be clear that I was not including the Odyssey 2 system in my dissatisfaction with the Odyssey. I DO like the Odyssey 2 system ;) and think it is miles better than the Odyssey 1.


It doesn't make a lot of sense to trash the very first home videogame system in that manner, when there were no other home videogame or computer systems whatsoever to compare it against. That's like trashing the Model T or the Wright Flyer. It's one thing not to enjoy the implementation/execution, but to disparage them for perceived technical flaws borders on the foolish. The Odyssey (or more correctly, the Brown Box prototype from the PREVIOUS decade) was created with NO OTHER point of reference other than things like board games. Sure, it had some flaws (many of which were a result of Magnavox decisions), but as the very first product of its kind EVER, it got a LOT of things right, and a LOT of things that would be found in later systems, like removable cartridges (even if they were just dip switches to turn internal features on or off), removable controllers, a light rifle, a TV switch box, etc. It's also true that it had a few variations of what can be considered prototypical Pong games, but again, they were FIRST and they were more ADVANCED than what Pong ultimately was. The genius of Pong was distilling the gameplay down to the bare minimum, which made it more approachable for more people and arguably more fun.

What site are you on anyway wangfu? I think this site is called Atariage, not Magnavox-age. You should expect people to defend Atari here, first and foremost.


So because you're on an Atari-themed site, all logic, all practicality, and the reality of history should be thrown out for blind fanboy-ism? Doesn't seem like much fun to me, but then that's my opinion and you certainly have yours.

Was there not a Pong game on the Odyssey?


I'm assuming you don't have a great deal of first hand exposure to the Odyssey. I realize I'm probably in a bit of a different category of user than you (collector and historian), but there's something a bit - and forgive me for how cheesy this sounds - "magical" about running an Odyssey for the first time, live, given its "ancient" origins.

I respectfully suggest you check out Michael McCourt's ongoing "Chronogaming" series which is carried on my site: http://www.armchaira...xonomy/term/948 . His basic concept is that he's playing the games on the Odyssey today with his son, but pretending it's 1972. You might be surprised how impressive this "junk" really is given the technology of the day, keeping in mind Atari's home Pong (through Sears) did not make an appearance until 1975 (three years later), and the first recognizable personal computers did not make an appearance until 1977 (five years later).

Edited by Bill_Loguidice, Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:37 AM.


#744 Cebus Capucinis OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:48 AM

{sigh}

....I need to go buy some more cookies....


Make sure they are Chocolate Chip! I asked a good question there! :lol:

I certainly hope that we can continue to ask Mr. Rubin questions of any nature (be they about cookies or be they about logic circuits and other things simple monkeys such as I do not understand) and that he will feel comfortable and respected within our circle.

It seems that this is a very volatile topic! Not to belabor it too much but I'm surprised that there aren't more people out there that have equal parts respect for both Mr. Bushnell and Mr. Baer!

I don't think you can have one respected individual without having the other, to be honest. Without Mr. Baer's advances and creations Mr. Bushnell might not have had that 'seed' planted in his mind as to how his creativity could really go places, whether you think he used that idea acceptably or not!

#745 desiv OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:14 AM

It seems that this is a very volatile topic! Not to belabor it too much but I'm surprised that there aren't more people out there that have equal parts respect for both Mr. Bushnell and Mr. Baer!


I think there are probably quite a few, but they just aren't posting their opinions..

Really, can you blame them? Posting an opinion in this thread can be dangerous. :? :roll:

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#746 Emehr OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:16 AM

Not to belabor it too much but I'm surprised that there aren't more people out there that have equal parts respect for both Mr. Bushnell and Mr. Baer!

Yeah, that has me scratching my head as well. My only issue with Mr. Bushnell was the Missile Command thing and that's been cleared up. Having had something I did get recognized and witnessed much (if not all) of the credit go to someone else, I like to see the proper people get their recognition. I think I understand Mr. Bushnell a little better now. Not that I understood him much to begin with, but I understand him a little better than I previously did! :D I just don't get the "Team Nolan" "Team Ralph" thing. It's starting to feel like a Twilight fan club in here, but for Atari people! :)

#747 frogstar_robot OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:17 PM

It doesn't make a lot of sense to trash the very first home videogame system in that manner, when there were no other home videogame or computer systems whatsoever to compare it against. That's like trashing the Model T or the Wright Flyer. It's one thing not to enjoy the implementation/execution, but to disparage them for perceived technical flaws borders on the foolish. The Odyssey (or more correctly, the Brown Box prototype from the PREVIOUS decade) was created with NO OTHER point of reference other than things like board games. Sure, it had some flaws (many of which were a result of Magnavox decisions), but as the very first product of its kind EVER, it got a LOT of things right, and a LOT of things that would be found in later systems, like removable cartridges (even if they were just dip switches to turn internal features on or off), removable controllers, a light rifle, a TV switch box, etc. It's also true that it had a few variations of what can be considered prototypical Pong games, but again, they were FIRST and they were more ADVANCED than what Pong ultimately was. The genius of Pong was distilling the gameplay down to the bare minimum, which made it more approachable for more people and arguably more fun.


That I'll second and agree with. You generally expect the first of most anything to be equals parts WOW! and WTF?! Something we see over and over again especially with consumer products is that it doesn't necessarily pay to be the first to do anything. The history of the light bulb, the steam engine, and many other things were like this.

#748 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

Random Terrain

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:18 PM

I just don't get the "Team Nolan" "Team Ralph" thing.

Blame it on the Boogie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjW1iq4IO2k&rel=0&fmt=18&showinfo=0

#749 frogstar_robot OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:27 PM

I just don't get the "Team Nolan" "Team Ralph" thing.

Blame it on the Boogie.


It's not my taste in music but I did rather like the analog video effects.

#750 desiv OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:28 PM

It doesn't make a lot of sense to trash the very first home videogame system in that manner, when there were no other home videogame or computer systems whatsoever to compare it against. That's like trashing the Model T or the Wright Flyer. It's one thing not to enjoy the implementation/execution, but to disparage them for perceived technical flaws borders on the foolish.


I think that depends...
In general, yes.. For the non technical person, definitely.

But, if you are in a competing (or planning to) business and you see this new product/idea and honestly think you can do better, then I think that makes perfect sense...

And saying that it borders on foolish? Really? :?

On one level, seeing that and just saying "That's great, but I think we can do better," makes sense.

But I can very easily see a tech with vision and ability looking at it and saying "That's new, but they could have done it much better..."

I don't see how the latter in any way "borders on the foolish?"

Can't we all just get along!! <-- Sorry, I tried really hard NOT to add that line, but I had to!! :roll: :D ;)

desiv

Edited by desiv, Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:29 PM.





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