204 replies to this topic

[Scrabbler15]

revolutionika, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:40 AM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:07 AM, said:

revolutionika, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:41 PM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:39 PM, said:

revolutionika, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:58 PM, said:

Scrabbler,Are you getting the urge to pick up some 2600 games that you may of missed out on back in the day?


That is what happened to me a few years ago and now i have a few thousand games!

The urge that I'm getting is to play some serious Dragster, again, futile as it may be.

Wow, thousands of games. That's fantastic. I'll be glad just to get back what I have back at the in-laws. Mine do not number in the thousands. I'm happy to be living in the double digits.

I see you like intellivision,do you still have that?

my favs on that are beauty and the beast and white water(among many others)

Currently, I have two non-working Intellivisions (an original and an Intellivision 2). I've found a guy, at a retro shop close by, that I think can get at least one of them running for me. Some of my Intellivision favs are Astrosmash (of course), the original Baseball, and Dreadnaught Factor.

I also have the Speech Synthesizer module and 3 of the 4 games made for that.

What company made White Water? I don't really remember it.

They are made by iMagic of course.one of the best developers ever!

My link

Wow, that's cool. I don't remember that at all.

I like that the game is always new, because it says so on the package.

[Scrabbler15]

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 10:11 AM, said:

revolutionika, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:40 AM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:07 AM, said:

revolutionika, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:41 PM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:39 PM, said:

revolutionika, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:58 PM, said:

Scrabbler,Are you getting the urge to pick up some 2600 games that you may of missed out on back in the day?


That is what happened to me a few years ago and now i have a few thousand games!

The urge that I'm getting is to play some serious Dragster, again, futile as it may be.

Wow, thousands of games. That's fantastic. I'll be glad just to get back what I have back at the in-laws. Mine do not number in the thousands. I'm happy to be living in the double digits.

I see you like intellivision,do you still have that?

my favs on that are beauty and the beast and white water(among many others)

Currently, I have two non-working Intellivisions (an original and an Intellivision 2). I've found a guy, at a retro shop close by, that I think can get at least one of them running for me. Some of my Intellivision favs are Astrosmash (of course), the original Baseball, and Dreadnaught Factor.

I also have the Speech Synthesizer module and 3 of the 4 games made for that.

What company made White Water? I don't really remember it.

They are made by iMagic of course.one of the best developers ever!

My link

Wow, that's cool. I don't remember that at all.

I like that the game is always new, because it says so on the package.

Loved reading about the game in your link.

[ProperRogue]

I haven't been here in a while , so please allow me to echo what many have already said thus far. The videos were indeed truly awesome , and I thank you for sharing such an amazing story!

Cheers!

[DickNixonArisen]

As a (former?) competitive player, what do you think it takes to "make it"? Obviously you had something that others didn't. Or, in other words, why am I still not good at street fighter?

[Scrabbler15]

DickNixonArisen, on Sat May 1, 2010 12:26 PM, said:

As a (former?) competitive player, what do you think it takes to "make it"? Obviously you had something that others didn't. Or, in other words, why am I still not good at street fighter?

This is what I think:

There has to be a love of competition. I've told my kids whether you win or lose, the opportunity to compete is its own reward.

It takes a somewhat compulsive personality. There is no other way to explain playing Dragster for 5 or 6 hours in a row, because you scored 5.74 seconds and you know that maybe the next one is the one that's going to be 5.71.

First, you learn how to play a game. Then you play what you know (and play and play) until you accidentally happen onto a technique that lets you play better. Then you play what you know (and play and play) and you find something else that you can add to what you know. Rinse and repeat.

To illustrate, let's talk about the secret to Astrosmash. Everybody tries the autofire option. And everybody tries the manual fire option. But you can't really stay ahead of the game until you turn the autofire on, hold in the manual shooting button on the side, and tap the top of the directional wheel in between moving back and forth, all at the same time. This results in about 50% more bullets fired in the same amount of time. Retro games are notorious for these kinds of undocumented game behaviors. Experiment.

It takes outside-the-box thinking. I scored a perfect 114,000 on Pitfall. A typical reaction is "You never got hit by a rolling log the whole game?", because people play the game by moving left to right (you know, the normal way). But you can also play the entire game moving right to left, which means you can outrun the logs instead of jumping them. You still have to be able to jump onto the three alligators' heads and you still have to know where to go (I had pages and pages of notebook paper that mapped out the entire game with what hazard was on each screen -- see compulsive personality above).

As far as your Street Fighter game goes, I have the same problem with Missile Command. Just not a game that works for me. I guess there has to be a natural penchant for a particular game and then all the other success factors are possible.


I also think Atari rambling is the result of being away from it for too long.

[Shantai]

Albert, on Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:08 AM, said:

shadowdoggie, on Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:07 AM, said:

Great story Scrabbler.

Looks like there's an Atlantis 2 up for sale now on ebay.
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 170479718792

The seller has a rating of 0, and references Scrabbler's video, but then says it's for reference only (not his video).  He/She wants $10,000 as a starting bid, with no box, no screenshots, 0 rating, and nothing more than a pic of an Atlantis night scene cart.  Good luck with that.

Yes, and the picture is from AtariAge, so I'm about to report that auction.

..Al

Al

I hate those types. Claim the item was from a thrift shop, leech off others info, and a 0 rating. That guy is soo fail. But I guess he thinks theres a sucker somewhere.


I remember a guy swiped my MTG card pics and almost ruined my auctions in the late 90s...

I say we all report the guy if indeed hes attempting to make a quick $

[Shantai]

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 2:15 PM, said:

DickNixonArisen, on Sat May 1, 2010 12:26 PM, said:

As a (former?) competitive player, what do you think it takes to "make it"? Obviously you had something that others didn't. Or, in other words, why am I still not good at street fighter?

This is what I think:

There has to be a love of competition. I've told my kids whether you win or lose, the opportunity to compete is its own reward.

It takes a somewhat compulsive personality. There is no other way to explain playing Dragster for 5 or 6 hours in a row, because you scored 5.74 seconds and you know that maybe the next one is the one that's going to be 5.71.

First, you learn how to play a game. Then you play what you know (and play and play) until you accidentally happen onto a technique that lets you play better. Then you play what you know (and play and play) and you find something else that you can add to what you know. Rinse and repeat.

To illustrate, let's talk about the secret to Astrosmash. Everybody tries the autofire option. And everybody tries the manual fire option. But you can't really stay ahead of the game until you turn the autofire on, hold in the manual shooting button on the side, and tap the top of the directional wheel in between moving back and forth, all at the same time. This results in about 50% more bullets fired in the same amount of time. Retro games are notorious for these kinds of undocumented game behaviors. Experiment.

It takes outside-the-box thinking. I scored a perfect 114,000 on Pitfall. A typical reaction is "You never got hit by a rolling log the whole game?", because people play the game by moving left to right (you know, the normal way). But you can also play the entire game moving right to left, which means you can outrun the logs instead of jumping them. You still have to be able to jump onto the three alligators' heads and you still have to know where to go (I had pages and pages of notebook paper that mapped out the entire game with what hazard was on each screen -- see compulsive personality above).

As far as your Street Fighter game goes, I have the same problem with Missile Command. Just not a game that works for me. I guess there has to be a natural penchant for a particular game and then all the other success factors are possible.


I also think Atari rambling is the result of being away from it for too long.

NICE tips from one the FIRST game champs

I feel what the poster you responded to feels.

For me it's with World of Warcraft. I have over 700 achievements on my hunter, stopped raiding after my mother passed on.

But no matter how much I read tactics, play combos, rotate my shots I could NEVER top the damn meters. (Yeah maybe a few rare occasions).
I was never booted from a guild, the others loved my kindness towards others and passing on small - med upgrades to help the guild on a whole.
but it just frustrates the hell outta me, I KNOW I can do well but always seem to choke at the worst time


OH, on a side note, I recently finished The legend of Zelda for NES without dying once! (NO Game Genie btw!) I know it's not major, but it felt sooo good to kill Gannon and see the 0 Next to my character

Edited by Shantai, Sat May 1, 2010 2:35 PM.

[Miss 2600]

Shantai, on Sat May 1, 2010 2:20 PM, said:

I hate those types. Claim the item was from a thrift shop, leech off others info, and a 0 rating. That guy is soo fail. But I guess he thinks theres a sucker somewhere.

Yeah, what's the point of putting a photo of the Goodwill receipt in the auction?  For bragging purposes??? The non-profit organization gets $0.96 (or whatever, I can't even make out the amount in that lousy photo) while the eBay seller makes a killing??  I'm not saying it's wrong to make a profit on something you found cheap (I'd be elated), but why post a pic of the receipt as if to rub it in?  It doesn't add any information useful to potential buyers as would, say, screen shots.

[Wonder007]

hhwolfman, on Sat May 1, 2010 10:04 AM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 7:41 AM, said:

If everything goes according to plan, my A2 cart (and shirt) will go up for auction on Ebay beginning Sunday, May 9.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on the whole sell-it/don't-sell-it question. What it comes down to is that keeping it would be all about me, but selling it would be all about my family and making their lives a little better. So, for my situation, selling is the right decision.

Speed O , Speedy, and Atari Lives, Will have a field day on that auction. You will do well. Also, 99 percent of people, that have no idea on what they have, got it cheap, Use our knowledge, just for there gain , never come back. I am not very fond of those people. You on the other hand, I like. With all Your love for video games and the History, you have brought us, You deserve to do well.

HHW

I do need the shirt....

@ Scrabbler15- Do you plan to sell the shirt separately from the game???  I hope you do sell them separately because I only need the shirt..... Please advise.  

[Osbo]

Miss 2600, on Sat May 1, 2010 5:28 PM, said:

Shantai, on Sat May 1, 2010 2:20 PM, said:

I hate those types. Claim the item was from a thrift shop, leech off others info, and a 0 rating. That guy is soo fail. But I guess he thinks theres a sucker somewhere.

Yeah, what's the point of putting a photo of the Goodwill receipt in the auction?  For bragging purposes??? The non-profit organization gets $0.96 (or whatever, I can't even make out the amount in that lousy photo) while the eBay seller makes a killing??  I'm not saying it's wrong to make a profit on something you found cheap (I'd be elated), but why post a pic of the receipt as if to rub it in?  It doesn't add any information useful to potential buyers as would, say, screen shots.

Yeah, and he could use some schooling too...

" PURCHASED DATE IS 04/29/2010 FROM GOODWILL
**I have an original, genuine, 1982-built, Imagic, real-deal, authentic, Atlantis 2 cart. Which is unbelievably rare!!! Like only 25-or SO ever made!!!  (WORKS AND IS IN GREAT CONDITION!) *MY BE THE ONLY ORIGINAL ONE OR TWO LEFT IN THE WORLD SINCE IT’S BELIEVED THAT ONLY 10 EXIST! MY SEARCH YEILDED NO RESULTS!!!  ***PLEASE SERIOUS INQUIRIES OR COLLECTORS ONLY!! (NOW THAT I V'E POSTED PICTURES I HOPE YOU NON-BELEIVERS OR STILL INTERESTED!!)"

This guy disgust me...

(and yes, I hope someone sends him a link to this post, so he can read it)

[Scrabbler15]

Wonder007, on Sat May 1, 2010 5:34 PM, said:

hhwolfman, on Sat May 1, 2010 10:04 AM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 7:41 AM, said:

If everything goes according to plan, my A2 cart (and shirt) will go up for auction on Ebay beginning Sunday, May 9.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on the whole sell-it/don't-sell-it question. What it comes down to is that keeping it would be all about me, but selling it would be all about my family and making their lives a little better. So, for my situation, selling is the right decision.

Speed O , Speedy, and Atari Lives, Will have a field day on that auction. You will do well. Also, 99 percent of people, that have no idea on what they have, got it cheap, Use our knowledge, just for there gain , never come back. I am not very fond of those people. You on the other hand, I like. With all Your love for video games and the History, you have brought us, You deserve to do well.

HHW

I do need the shirt....

@ Scrabbler15- Do you plan to sell the shirt separately from the game??? I hope you do sell them separately because I only need the shirt..... Please advise.

Sorry, I'm selling the cart and shirt together as a set. Because the shirt is used (I wore it a lot), I'm including it as a bonus to the winning bidder of the cart.

[shadow460]

Good videos!  Everything kinda seemed to scream 1980's except the plasma TV, but that's what we've got these days.  Seems that the basic things that make a competitor have remained largely the same, though I've never known anyone to be a competitor in so many different video games.

Watching the videos brought back memories of the first time I played Atlantis.  I never knew of a competition, all I knew was there was this really cool game with colorful ships and different guns to shoot from, and that I had to have it.

It's cool to have games that you can say "I've had these sitting in the box for 26 years now".  It doesn't matter if they're the most common games or the rarest, they're something one might never, ever sell.  Don't feel bad about wearing the shirt, either.  I have several video games shirts that I wore a lot, thinking "I'll stop wearing this before it falls apart", but they became some of my favorites.  The one I have left is worn to the point where the game title is cracked pretty badly, but it's still readable.  Of course, if I'd won any shirts back then, there's no way they would still fit me since I was seven years old in 1982.

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 6:30 PM, said:

Sorry, I'm selling the cart and shirt together as a set. Because the shirt is used (I wore it a lot), I'm including it as a bonus to the winning bidder of the cart.

You should sell it to Wonder. He will make you a good offer!

[Scrabbler15]

iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin, on Sat May 1, 2010 8:11 PM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 6:30 PM, said:

Sorry, I'm selling the cart and shirt together as a set. Because the shirt is used (I wore it a lot), I'm including it as a bonus to the winning bidder of the cart.

You should sell it to Wonder. He will make you a good offer!

Well, nothing is set in stone, yet. I can still change my original plan. Since I'm the new guy in a sea of experts, I'm willing to listen. Talk to me, Wonder.

[DickNixonArisen]

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 2:15 PM, said:

DickNixonArisen, on Sat May 1, 2010 12:26 PM, said:

As a (former?) competitive player, what do you think it takes to "make it"? Obviously you had something that others didn't. Or, in other words, why am I still not good at street fighter?

This is what I think:

There has to be a love of competition. I've told my kids whether you win or lose, the opportunity to compete is its own reward.

It takes a somewhat compulsive personality. There is no other way to explain playing Dragster for 5 or 6 hours in a row, because you scored 5.74 seconds and you know that maybe the next one is the one that's going to be 5.71.

First, you learn how to play a game. Then you play what you know (and play and play) until you accidentally happen onto a technique that lets you play better. Then you play what you know (and play and play) and you find something else that you can add to what you know. Rinse and repeat.

To illustrate, let's talk about the secret to Astrosmash. Everybody tries the autofire option. And everybody tries the manual fire option. But you can't really stay ahead of the game until you turn the autofire on, hold in the manual shooting button on the side, and tap the top of the directional wheel in between moving back and forth, all at the same time. This results in about 50% more bullets fired in the same amount of time. Retro games are notorious for these kinds of undocumented game behaviors. Experiment.

It takes outside-the-box thinking. I scored a perfect 114,000 on Pitfall. A typical reaction is "You never got hit by a rolling log the whole game?", because people play the game by moving left to right (you know, the normal way). But you can also play the entire game moving right to left, which means you can outrun the logs instead of jumping them. You still have to be able to jump onto the three alligators' heads and you still have to know where to go (I had pages and pages of notebook paper that mapped out the entire game with what hazard was on each screen -- see compulsive personality above).

As far as your Street Fighter game goes, I have the same problem with Missile Command. Just not a game that works for me. I guess there has to be a natural penchant for a particular game and then all the other success factors are possible.


I also think Atari rambling is the result of being away from it for too long.

That makes sense. I will definitely try that on astrosmash when I get my INTV out of hiding. You can play that for a long time before the pulsars or whatever start coming three at a time or abouts. I had never heard of that trick. Perfect pitfall? that I have a chance at, i've come close. I am writing a choose-your-own based on pitfall right now. hah. There's a nice graphic map that AJ made on this link http://www.atariage....me/page__st__25

Thanks for the response!

[Scrabbler15]

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:54 PM, said:

iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin, on Sat May 1, 2010 8:11 PM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 6:30 PM, said:

Sorry, I'm selling the cart and shirt together as a set. Because the shirt is used (I wore it a lot), I'm including it as a bonus to the winning bidder of the cart.

You should sell it to Wonder. He will make you a good offer!

Well, nothing is set in stone, yet. I can still change my original plan. Since I'm the new guy in a sea of experts, I'm willing to listen. Talk to me, Wonder.

I woke up in the middle of the night with this shirt/cart question on my mind. My first instinct was to include the shirt with the cart and that seems to be the answer my subconscious came up with while I was sleeping. I'm leaning toward trusting my instinct to keep the shirt and cart together. I usually get in trouble when I ignore my instincts.

[Miss 2600]

Scrabbler15:

In the Centipede championships, how was the overall winner determined between you and the 5200 division winner?  Did you guys play a certain amount of time on both consoles?

[tisaperfectdayelise]

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:54 PM, said:

iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin, on Sat May 1, 2010 8:11 PM, said:

Scrabbler15, on Sat May 1, 2010 6:30 PM, said:

Sorry, I'm selling the cart and shirt together as a set. Because the shirt is used (I wore it a lot), I'm including it as a bonus to the winning bidder of the cart.

You should sell it to Wonder. He will make you a good offer!

Well, nothing is set in stone, yet. I can still change my original plan. Since I'm the new guy in a sea of experts, I'm willing to listen. Talk to me, Wonder.

I really wish you'd keep the game, actually...at least for awhile. What a cool thing to have! It will never mean as much, once it leaves your possession. It's one thing to have the cash to buy a collectible item. It's another to be part of its history, such as yourself. I beg of you, hold onto it.

[Mirage]

tisaperfectdayelise, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:48 PM, said:

I really wish you'd keep the game, actually...at least for awhile. What a cool thing to have! It will never mean as much, once it leaves your possession. It's one thing to have the cash to buy a collectible item. It's another to be part of its history, such as yourself. I beg of you, hold onto it.

He kept it for 27 years... that's awhile. I see nothing wrong with selling that thing to have some $ for his family. Obviously, it's always the owner's choice, but if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. Family is always first. A game is just plastic. Now the trophies... those I'd be more likely to keep, since they're personal to him. Even those, if they'd bring a lot of cash though....... flesh > plastic.

[Miss 2600]

Mirage, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:53 PM, said:

tisaperfectdayelise, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:48 PM, said:

I really wish you'd keep the game, actually...at least for awhile. What a cool thing to have! It will never mean as much, once it leaves your possession. It's one thing to have the cash to buy a collectible item. It's another to be part of its history, such as yourself. I beg of you, hold onto it.

He kept it for 27 years... that's awhile. I see nothing wrong with selling that thing to have some $ for his family. Obviously, it's always the owner's choice, but if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. Family is always first. A game is just plastic. Now the trophies... those I'd be more likely to keep, since they're personal to him. Even those, if they'd bring a lot of cash though....... flesh > plastic.

Yeah, and also the Atlantis 2 contest was canceled, so what kind of a memory does that leave?  Probably just disappointment.

[tisaperfectdayelise]

Miss 2600, on Sun May 2, 2010 2:06 PM, said:

Mirage, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:53 PM, said:

tisaperfectdayelise, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:48 PM, said:

I really wish you'd keep the game, actually...at least for awhile. What a cool thing to have! It will never mean as much, once it leaves your possession. It's one thing to have the cash to buy a collectible item. It's another to be part of its history, such as yourself. I beg of you, hold onto it.

He kept it for 27 years... that's awhile. I see nothing wrong with selling that thing to have some $ for his family. Obviously, it's always the owner's choice, but if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. Family is always first. A game is just plastic. Now the trophies... those I'd be more likely to keep, since they're personal to him. Even those, if they'd bring a lot of cash though....... flesh > plastic.

Yeah, and also the Atlantis 2 contest was canceled, so what kind of a memory does that leave? Probably just disappointment.

:: sighs :: nevermind

[Scrabbler15]

tisaperfectdayelise, on Sun May 2, 2010 2:09 PM, said:

Miss 2600, on Sun May 2, 2010 2:06 PM, said:

Mirage, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:53 PM, said:

tisaperfectdayelise, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:48 PM, said:

I really wish you'd keep the game, actually...at least for awhile. What a cool thing to have! It will never mean as much, once it leaves your possession. It's one thing to have the cash to buy a collectible item. It's another to be part of its history, such as yourself. I beg of you, hold onto it.

He kept it for 27 years... that's awhile. I see nothing wrong with selling that thing to have some $ for his family. Obviously, it's always the owner's choice, but if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. Family is always first. A game is just plastic. Now the trophies... those I'd be more likely to keep, since they're personal to him. Even those, if they'd bring a lot of cash though....... flesh > plastic.

Yeah, and also the Atlantis 2 contest was canceled, so what kind of a memory does that leave? Probably just disappointment.

:: sighs :: nevermind

All good points on both sides of the question. Even though I have already made my decision, I still enjoy the thoughtful discussion. There is nowhere else that the subtlety of the issues involved in such a sell/don't-sell question are understood like they are here. I respect and pay attention to each opinion expressed here, because I'm one of you. Thanks all for your thoughts.

[Scrabbler15]

Miss 2600, on Sun May 2, 2010 1:28 PM, said:

Scrabbler15:

In the Centipede championships, how was the overall winner determined between you and the 5200 division winner? Did you guys play a certain amount of time on both consoles?

It was determined by each player playing ten minutes on the 2600 and then ten minutes on the 5200 and adding the scores together.

I don't remember the total score, but I do remember building a lead of about 11,000 in the 2600 portion which was first. Neither one of us made it the entire ten minutes on the 5200.

I also remember losing my last ship and having a moment of "Aw, he has two ships left and he's gonna just keep playing and chew up my lead". But while I was starting to have that thought, the bonus for damaged mushrooms was being added on my game and that bonus gave me enough points to get an extra ship. (It was music to my ears, pun intended.) So I added a couple more thousand. When I lost that ship, he lost a ship at the same time and had one left. At that point, it was kind of like playing golf, in that there is no defense. All I could do is stand there and watch him build on his score.

When he lost his last ship, I did some quick math and realized I was still ahead in the combined score by about 7,000 points. Inside, I'm sort of bouncing up and down on the stage, because I knew I had it. But I'm not sure if anybody else had figured it out, yet.

Something else happened that was kind of funny, too. Since neither of us made the ten minute time limit, when the game ended, one of the Atari judges was like "What happened?". He reached out like he was going to restart the game and I jumped in with my arm stretched out going "No, no, that's it. The game's over." (I think that is an accurate direct quote.)

Another interesting thing about the whole deal is that I had never played the 5200 version of Centipede until a week before the finals. I didn't own a 5200, but we found out (by accident) that someone we knew had a 5200 and Centipede. He let me borrow it (thanks, again Pepe Crawford, wherever you are) and that's what I practiced the week before the finals. Without that, I could have been playing for the U.S. Championship on a game I had never played. Scary thought, in retrospect.

[Miss 2600]

Great stories!  Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions so thoroughly!  

[Atari2600Lives]

You know scrabbler, you could probably write a book about this stuff...seriously. I could just see the title, "Lord of Atlantis" or "King of Centipede" A brief history of the games, your role in that history  and stories about how you fell in love with gaming, then stories how you became a competitor and champion...I would buy it!

Edited by Atari2600Lives, Sun May 2, 2010 6:11 PM.