H2

[Jinks]

I dont even have any good skills. You know like nunchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Krikzz is not anti-Atari, he just has little familiarity with it. He grew up in Ukraine behind the Iron Curtain for awhile, and I doubt had any exposure. Sega/Nintendo/NEC is his era.

igor isn't anti Atari. He isn't familiar enough with them, and they don't represent a large enough market to bother with. I love my 2600 and 7800, but let's face it- this is a tiny community compared to the other 8-bit and g 16 bit eras.

Lots of people aren't interested in Atari. I can think of a number of reasons but being difficult to program compared to other consoles, and the fact there is no way Krikzz could come close to making a better 2600 flash cart than the Harmony Encore. People have asked him why he don't do an Atari flashcart, and his response was "not enough interest" which I don't feel is far from the truth. Also it's worth noting these developers generally look to fill gaps where there's a need for a specific device. I think sometimes there's an unspoken agreement with these guys that they aren't gonna start turf wars by invading each other's consoles. Atarimax does most of the other pre-crash stuff, Batari cornered the 2600 flashcart market and is trying to enter the 7800. RetroUSB pioneered the unsurmountable "mapper hell" of NES, followed by Krikzz. And I believe NES is big enough market for two flash carts to coexist. Even now there are not one but two competing NES FPGA consoles. Krikzz has done nearly every cart based Nintendo and Sega system as well as Turbografx, as I think he's most comfortable with the 16-bit era. We have a new guy making carts for Lynx and future plans for Jaguar. We really don't need guys like Krikzz and Batari who have vastly different interests competing against each other...

 

While I don't necessarily feel the market or nostalgia for 2600 is that tiny considering it sold 30 million worldwide, comparable to N64 and about half the sales of NES, Atari is shrugged off by many retro gamers and is an "aquired taste" for those like myself who did not grow up with it. But I agree with 78001987 that with the notable exception of the 2600, nearly everything pre-crash has pretty niche followings even in retrogaming, as well as Atari's own computer and other console efforts. Even in the 90s, the Atari brand became synonymous with "crap" and never fully recovered.

 

The 2600 is best remembered for starting the home video game console revolution, the NES for saving it. Everything else prior to the 16-bit "console wars" era is but a footnote to many gamers.

[Greg2600]

Krikzz was asked about the VCS years ago, and expressed limited familiarity. He's moving forward in gaming not back now anyway. To expect someone else to jump in after the nightmare Batari has endured? Tough.

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[78001987]

It's pretty simple really. Fred, and similarly Chad Schell, made Atari multicarts/ad carts as a labor of love. They genuinely love these systems, and wanted to create an easy way to preserve playing every rom on real hardware. They had little expectation of turning huge profits, and mostly just hoped to make their costs back and a bit more.

 

Krikzz is in the multicart/SD cart business to make money. He's sold thousands of mega everdrives, etc. realistically, the 7800 sdcart market has a ceiling of about 300 people, +/-. That's a really low margin, considering the cost and time involved in developing and building such a cart. Never mind the fact that the 7800 is a fickle bitch, with many revisions and lots of compatibility issues between them.

 

We should be thankful that Fred is making this, on his own dime, and be patient.

[Deteacher]

 

Going along the lines of what has recently been said....

You will get an update if and when the chap creating this is ready to post an update. Not before and not after, but when he is ready. And you will bring me a shrubbery. Ni.

 

The only point I was trying to make was that this thread went way off the rails. I was only trying to bring it back on topic. I'm plenty patient and not trying to rush anyone...was just getting annoyed when I see movement on the thread, only to see folks talking about Xbox and Wii.

[StarshipUK]

 

The only point I was trying to make was that this thread went way off the rails. I was only trying to bring it back on topic. I'm plenty patient and not trying to rush anyone...was just getting annoyed when I see movement on the thread, only to see folks talking about Xbox and Wii.

 

Lets put it another way. Batari has not posted on these forums for over 5 months now: http://atariage.com/forums/user/5792-batari/

And none of those few posts this year were anything regarding this project which to me is looking more and more like it will become vapourware. To be honest I hope I am wrong but taking this into consideration, and everything everyone else has said, its not really looking promising, is it?

[Greg2600]

It's pretty simple really. Fred, and similarly Chad Schell, made Atari multicarts/ad carts as a labor of love. They genuinely love these systems, and wanted to create an easy way to preserve playing every rom on real hardware. They had little expectation of turning huge profits, and mostly just hoped to make their costs back and a bit more.

 

Krikzz is in the multicart/SD cart business to make money. He's sold thousands of mega everdrives, etc. realistically, the 7800 sdcart market has a ceiling of about 300 people, +/-. That's a really low margin, considering the cost and time involved in developing and building such a cart. Never mind the fact that the 7800 is a fickle bitch, with many revisions and lots of compatibility issues between them.

 

We should be thankful that Fred is making this, on his own dime, and be patient.

 

You've made my point on the feasibility of selling a 7800 flashcart. Over time I'm sure it's more than 300 but you're in the ballpark. That being said, I doubt Krikzz has sold a ton of Game Gear or Master System Everdrives. However, those devices piggy backed on the work he's done with his other carts, so it made sense. The 7800 would might be incompatible with work he's already done, and starting from scratch makes little sense for him. Plus, should he run into the same hardware inconsistencies that others have, what then? Seems like the 7800 itself is just plain shoddy quality, and making a flash cartridge is made 1000x tougher as a result.

 

Lets put it another way. Batari has not posted on these forums for over 5 months now: http://atariage.com/forums/user/5792-batari/

And none of those few posts this year were anything regarding this project which to me is looking more and more like it will become vapourware. To be honest I hope I am wrong but taking this into consideration, and everything everyone else has said, its not really looking promising, is it?

 

I made this point last month, but some weren't happy and took it the wrong way. I'm not besmirching the guy. All I was saying is that given the lack of progress and hardware issues that may not be solvable, this could be a goner. Again, I didn't make that determination, this was going on the comments and analysis from others. I'm totally inept to discuss the roadblocks he's had; however, from others statements they sound ugly and without a good way to be resolved. I'll be delighted to be proven wrong of course, but I said the same thing about the SD2SNES project years ago. The designer ikari_01 initially felt good about adding SuperFX support, but as time went on, and he put more and more effort in, he began to realize and publicly stated that it was NOT as easy as he first thought. After failing to provide any progress for like a year or so, I stated on assemblergames.com that I didn't see him ever doing it, and I was unfortunately correct. Again, not bashing, just being realistic.

[CPUWIZ]

 

Lets put it another way. Batari has not posted on these forums for over 5 months now: http://atariage.com/forums/user/5792-batari/

And none of those few posts this year were anything regarding this project which to me is looking more and more like it will become vapourware. To be honest I hope I am wrong but taking this into consideration, and everything everyone else has said, its not really looking promising, is it?

 

All the tech in the AA store, comes from me and Fred, your wish for the pirate SD cart will eventually happen. It isn't only one project that needs to be finished for all the stuff you can get your hands on already. Do you even have the smallest clue about how many different circuit boards have been designed to make homebrews etc. a reality?

 

I had some other cool ideas for hardware add-ons for the 7800, but people like you made me lose all interest.

[Zoyx]

This bickering makes me sad. I am but a simple yeoman farmer who wishes for a SD cart for his 7800.

[Deteacher]

 

Lets put it another way. Batari has not posted on these forums for over 5 months now: http://atariage.com/forums/user/5792-batari/

And none of those few posts this year were anything regarding this project which to me is looking more and more like it will become vapourware. To be honest I hope I am wrong but taking this into consideration, and everything everyone else has said, its not really looking promising, is it?

 

I totally get what you are saying, but I've seen other projects that have had long dry spells with no news, only to finally see things start moving along again. Like you, I'm surely hoping that things pick up again and I can wait as long as it takes. I just hated seeing that there were new posts to this thread, only to see the posts were off topic.

 

Cheers!

[phoenixdownita]

 

...your wish for the pirate SD cart will eventually happen. ....

100% this. I personally don't want to pay for the 7800 games more than a few dollars each, if that.

I made my own crappy multis at around that costs (few dollars a Rom) + all the labor that I discount as it was my choice after-all.

 

Aside from the nice talk about homebrew the main reason for me for SD cards is to play "teh romz" by far (and to tidy up the mess in the closet with all those carts lying around).

I wouldn't mind playing the occasional homebrew but in all honesty I am normally only interested in the original run of games from way back when (I know, my own little world).

 

So told me and all the others who want to play those expensive releases for pennies on the dollar, have no saying wrt batari project. He's ready when he's ready, not a moment sooner. If he gives up he gives up, his choice as well.

 

Plus now there's a programmable multi, not as convenient as an SD to rule them all but still it should quench people's thirst .... doesn't it?

[SIO2]

@Greg2600 who said, "Seems like the 7800 itself is just plain shoddy quality, and making a flash cartridge is made 1000x tougher as a result."

 

Some of the 7800's were shoddy. The earlier ones were pretty good for the most part. I worked on one later model 7800 though that I believe had not been opened since it was built by the factory. Inside I found a motherboard with a pit that looked like it was caused by acid being splattered on the board. The splatter destroyed a trace leading to an IC so someone used a resistor to jump the hole.

[Greg2600]

Well we know the Tramiel's did everything on the cheap with regards to this system!

[78001987]

Two things:

 

Vaporware is the wrong term here. The Concerto cart exists. 30ish of them were sold at PRGE. It simply isn't finished yet. Even if Fred eventually decided to abandon it officially, it's still not Vaporware.

 

I don't know that I'd call an sd cart for a 40 year old game console from a company no longer in the console business, where none of the original games are still commercially available except from resellers of used and old stock, a "pirate" cart. Piracy implies theft of intellectual property and sales dollars from the original artists/programmers. Yet there is no vehicle to provide sales proceeds to former Atari or 3rd party programmers, since the company no longer sells those products. Yes, I realize companies like Activision and Atari do try to protect their IPs from being resold, but they aren't providing sales proceeds to the original programmers like ASCAP and SAG do for entertainers when their IPs are sold/performed.

 

This is less a piracy tool, than it is a preservation device.

[CPUWIZ]

Two things:

 

Vaporware is the wrong term here. The Concerto cart exists. 30ish of them were sold at PRGE. It simply isn't finished yet. Even if Fred eventually decided to abandon it officially, it's still not Vaporware.

 

I don't know that I'd call an sd cart for a 40 year old game console from a company no longer in the console business, where none of the original games are still commercially available except from resellers of used and old stock, a "pirate" cart. Piracy implies theft of intellectual property and sales dollars from the original artists/programmers. Yet there is no vehicle to provide sales proceeds to former Atari or 3rd party programmers, since the company no longer sells those products. Yes, I realize companies like Activision and Atari do try to protect their IPs from being resold, but they aren't providing sales proceeds to the original programmers like ASCAP and SAG do for entertainers when their IPs are sold/performed.

 

This is less a piracy tool, than it is a preservation device.

 

One thing:

 

If someone said "This door is white!", you would reply with "No, it is black!", just because you like to troll every thread you can. Never contributing anything useful.

 

You don't even understand half of what people say. If there was a H2 right now, how many less copies of BBCQ would Bob get royalties on, when it rolls out?

[78001987]

 

One thing:

 

If someone said "This door is white!", you would reply with "No, it is black!", just because you like to troll every thread you can. Never contributing anything useful.

 

You don't even understand half of what people say. If there was a H2 right now, how many less copies of BBCQ would Bob get royalties on, when it rolls out?

anyone who would do that to Bob is a douchebag.

 

However, that doesn't change the fact that Bob has already released the rom for free as he has with every other game he has created, and the only thing holding it up from being released as a cart is the lack of XM existence, as I understand it.

 

Maybe you should cook up a few hundred of your custom boards and release BBCQ for Bob since it looks like the XM is likely going to be finished after the Concerto. That way, everybody wins.

[CPUWIZ]

Al has hundreds of various boards, always. There will be some BBCQ carts, that do not require the XM soon.

[78001987]

That is awesome news.

[Jinks]

Lets chill and be patient. I know some day these will come out.. If my dollar is higher then I will buy 3 or 4 of them to show support(not for resale they are for doomsday in my cave)

Its a small market so we should all be respectfull and decent. Calling peoples projects the term vapourware is not words of encouragement. They were made and some were sold is a fact.

I hate the term vapourware.. It goes with sick, epic, likes, fan of etc. All those internet people say...

[+DrVenkman]

Al has hundreds of various boards, always. There will be some BBCQ carts, that do not require the XM soon.

 

 

New supply of POKEYs turn up or is HOKEY finally all ready to go?

[accousticguitar]

This bickering makes me sad. I am but a simple yeoman farmer who wishes for a SD cart for his 7800.

This

[RevEng]

Not replying to anyone in particular, but I wanted to make an observation. It seems that many people don't treat hardware developers with the same amount of respect as software developers, for some odd and unknown reason.

 

Homebrewers often have projects that span years. While people bump the threads and offer words of encouragement, I've never heard people calling projects vaporware, suggesting the programmer is too much of a perfectionist, calling for other programmers to take on the work because it's going too slowly, complaining the programmer hasn't logged in for months, etc.

 

The asymmetry puzzles me. Hardware development on the 2600 and 7800 is even more of a gift economy than software development, due to need for time *and* money outlay. It would be much more profitable for CPUWIZ, batari, Chad, etc., to have spent the same time greeting at Walmart. What they choose to do is a huge gift. But for some reason people feel more free to critique the hardware projects.

 

(Talking about projects with no money changing hands here. Software and hardware projects that took money and didn't deliver on time often get complaints, and understandably so)

[phoenixdownita]

Don't shoot the bearer:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/250637-lynx-multi-card-preorders/page-35?do=findComment&comment=3589795

[StarshipUK]

Not replying to anyone in particular, but I wanted to make an observation. It seems that many people don't treat hardware developers with the same amount of respect as software developers, for some odd and unknown reason.

 

 

Actually I treat software developers with the same amount of disrespect as I do hardware developers.

 

Only joking (if you have not realised by now like most Brits I have a sarcastic sense of humour). I have a lot of respect for people who create carts for the lesser common systems as it combines old technology with new technology, and even more so for those which do it as a hobby for the love of it where they probably make little money from it. They are enabling a way to keep the systems running for another generation to use, and games for some systems are getting harder and harder to come by with some prices reaching the almost ridiculous and in some instances certain games are almost impossible to obtain. See the posts I have done on the multicart thread here and you will see I have often promoted other people's carts there where I have not had to.

 

Those who know me will know I have given a lot back to the UK retro community being one of the very few who has taken my own collection of systems to UK events for people to use and see. That is where these carts come in so handy, allowing people to choose the game they want to play out of every game released without me having to haul a few thousand carts around, and most people have a special game on a special system they specifically want to play, normally as they played it on their own systems back in the day. A recent example was someone who very specifically wanted to play Flimbos Quest on the C64 at an event. Taking original games not only uses up a lot of space, but also leaves the risk of someone swiping an original game cart if they are left out. So no, its not about "Pirating Games" at all!

 

This also promotes the carts for the systems, where sometimes people don't even know a certain cart for a certain system exists and I know people have then gone and bought these carts (including 2600 Harmony) as a result of seeing them running on my systems.

 

Life is too short and after some recent health issues, I would really love to own a 7800 multicart before i'm dead. Thats why I am so passionate about getting one.

Edited September 7, 2016 by StarshipUK

[CPUWIZ]

If you are afraid of dying (I can relate), open your wallet and buy a CC2. Or, like I said, build a cart. I personally like my USB cart with debugging functionality the best. Screw Activision games.