digdugnate Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 The sounds from UAE were the main motivation for me to add them to MAME. Funnily, there is still a wide range from rejection to appreciation when it comes to drive sounds. thats actually one of the things i remember fondly- the ti 99 and c64 disk sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 The sounds from UAE were the main motivation for me to add them to MAME. Funnily, there is still a wide range from rejection to appreciation when it comes to drive sounds. I am in the former camp. thats actually one of the things i remember fondly- the ti 99 and c64 disk sounds. To my ears. The real sounds have certain nuances to them that sampling cannot capture. In the beginning "they" just used a single sample for drive running and a single sample for the head stepping. But drives sound differently at different points of head position. For instance, the spindle motor and disk spinning sound differently at track 20 than at track 35, and so does the head movement. I believe some later implementations use sets of samples. But still, just not the same and not close enough to evoke the proper memories, so rather than experience corrupted memories I just go without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 We're hijacking the thread, I guess ... so just for completeness: I set up a student project for creating a "floppy checker" that is based on an Arduino, and which will process a script of head move operations. I always wanted to write such a thing by myself, but now I actually found three students - they need their credit points, I need that device - win/win. With that device I will be able to record specific areas of the drive. Keep in mind that every drive sounds differently. There is no a guarantee that your memories will ever be met precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Keep in mind that every drive sounds differently. There is no a guarantee that your memories will ever be met precisely. Correct, which is why, getting back on topic, I advocate against such an implementation in Classic99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Is it fair to say: If you can't do it properly, don't do it at all? I mean, if Tursi decided to do this, he should certainly be allowed to, and you'll surely get a chance to turn it off (as I did it in MAME). Mind that there may be other people that would welcome such a feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Is it fair to say: If you can't do it properly, don't do it at all? I mean, if Tursi decided to do this, he should certainly be allowed to, and you'll surely get a chance to turn it off (as I did it in MAME). Mind that there may be other people that would welcome such a feature. No. I disagree. If he were to do it there would be dire repercussions at the next Faire. Dire, I tell you. DIRE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 No i'm not here to beat you over the head about tape support again... One feature i would like to see in classic99 is drive sounds. Not sure about everyone else, but i for one love the sound of floppies loading. Thanks again for your work on this wonderful emulator. I don't expect to do this... I'm sure it's easy to do it the lazy way, a bit harder to do it "right". But since I don't believe in disk controllers anyway I don't want to go that direction. Play the sounds in Winamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Keep in mind that every drive sounds differently. There is no a guarantee that your memories will ever be met precisely. That's one of my issues with it. On some machines, say the C64, there was really only one option, but the TI used generic drives. I'm not sure I actually saw two TIs with the exact same floppy configuration, and when I had three drives, all three were different. Anyway, if I was bored and had samples right there it would still be a bit of a hassle because nothing in Classic99 attempts to emulate the head stepping, so that's an entire system that would need to be developed just to go "click". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+adamantyr Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I'm good with no drive sounds! I wish even the Lotharek didn't make any noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Why do I need drive noise? My hard drive on my PC are noisy enough now. SSD drives actually make sound as you can hear the fans speed up or down per the power drain on the computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Anyway, if I was bored and had samples right there it would still be a bit of a hassle because nothing in Classic99 attempts to emulate the head stepping, so that's an entire system that would need to be developed just to go "click". Hmm, right ... it does not really make sense if you don't want your emulated floppy drive to match the speed of the real drive. @all critics: I still find drive sounds a highly desirable feature of emulation, if just for the sake of immersion. But the good thing is ... that we need not agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK, CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK, WHIRRRRRRRRR, THUNK *my impression of a C64 1541 drive* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrospect Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I've still to find a BBC Micro emulator that gives you a static electric belt from the CUB Monitor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK, CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK, WHIRRRRRRRRR, THUNK *my impression of a C64 1541 drive* Except for this 1541 I have on my desk right now in which none of the motors run (spindle or head stepper.) Maybe a bad 12V supply or one of the VIAs. Up, up and away! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Why not emulate the fan noise of the PEB? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Why not emulate the fan noise of the PEB? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 The fan noise is extremely simple to emulate - a short sample in an endless loop will suffice. Thanks for the inspiration! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 Hmm, right ... it does not really make sense if you don't want your emulated floppy drive to match the speed of the real drive. @all critics: I still find drive sounds a highly desirable feature of emulation, if just for the sake of immersion. But the good thing is ... that we need not agree. What about the RF hum of the console interference? That's the part /I/ find nostalgic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 You mean that sound when you pull up the volume and "hear the machine working"? Somewhat, yes. I mean, we already have the CRT-style filters. But I seem to remember that indeed someone brought up this idea already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Why not emulate the fan noise of the PEB? Methinks you all are not taking that really seriously, right? For me, while I was working with diskettes on the real iron, the audible feedback was very important for me. You knew that ASSM1 or ASSM2 was loading at that time, the assembler was working, a DIS/FIX 80 files is still loading, the BASIC loader finished loading, and the BASIC cruncher is just setting up memory, or MDOS is in the process of loading. Even today, I'm listening to the (mechanical) hard disks of the PC, which shows me that it is probably a bad time to open some more applications right now. SSDs are great, but silent. The faster the drive is loading, the less important is this "side-channel" feedback. Since we pursue (mind you, not achieve) a precise hardware behavior, floppy loading is done at 125 kbit/s for single density and 300 kbit/s for double density, which feels really slow if everything is silent. Since I have that sound feature, I never turned it off again. In contrast, I stop the emulation and check things if I don't hear it; in most cases, the volume sliders in MAME have just been reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senior_falcon Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I don't expect to do this... Good. Save your efforts for important stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinphaltimus Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I'm still voting for profiles. All too often I have to reconfigure my DSK locations and loaded carts to check out the latest upload to AA, then do it again to use the compiler and again for testing other things. If I could have my different setups saved as configuration profiles, well... I think I'd have to visit your Amazon wishlist again... just sayin' - I mean, bribes count for something right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Methinks you all are not taking that really seriously, right? I am VERY serious about this. Texas Instruments Peripheral Expansion Box Fan Noise.wav 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senior_falcon Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 As long as we're trying for absolute faithfulness to the TI99 experience, you need to figure out a way for me to have a small, aggravating keyboard. And make sure that when XB is in the slot there are random lockups at the most inconvenient moments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Why not emulate the fan noise of the PEB? You are just plain EVIL! If this comes to pass, there better be a way to toggle that ___ing option off.. I KID YOU NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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