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Dig Dug hangs on win994a :´(


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#1 mäsäxi OFFLINE  

mäsäxi

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Posted Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:35 AM

Hello again!

I have watched TI-99/4A game screenshots for years, but I tried those marvellous games just a little while ago for the very first time.


But my problem is, that DIG DUG hangs soon, I may be able to play to second or third screen (if I am lucky...) but then fire button ("Q"-key) starts to hang/pause the game instead of firing air-hose. Air-hose won´t appear at all, that "pause" goes off when I press "Q" again, but air-hose won´t appear any more, and it causes quick death every time, as I am defenseless against pookas and fygars. And no, it is not because I am standing too closely to the walls, it happens on fully open digged tunnel. And it seems that it happens (always?) when I am facing UPwards.

Also, usually after few "pauses" (when pressing "Q" to fire) game completely hangs, sound plays "one note" and after a while windows closes win994a. Though sometimes Dig Dug just dies and gets another try on another life. But after that, game may completely hang, like described. Oh, I have Vista on my PC.


I have played DIG DUG ****A LOT**** on win994a emulator in these few days, despite that very irritating sad problem. I like this TI-99/4A DIG DUG more than Namcot´s own MSX conversion, as TI has really neat looking multicolour DIGDUG! :) And, to my surprise, TI-99/4A sound is softer than MSX´s GI-AY-3-8910. (or at least on emulator played thru PC speakers) I like VERY MUCH that soft sound!!!!!!!!! :)

Oh, that DIG DUG music has one glitch, it plays two channels and noise channel normally, but also there can be heard VERY high pitched tone all the time during play. I guess it is because either bad ROM dump or emulator bug?

So, I hope someone there could help me. If it is bad cartridge dump, I really don´t have anymore time to search other DIG DUG version. Same about finding some other TI-99/4A emulator. (at least without any help and suggestions) I am doomed to be too busy. :| This cartridge version was found from some site and it was Zipped on one package along MANY MANY MANY other TI-99/4A cartridges.


Thank you already for any help! :)

-MäSäXi 2=)

Edited by mäsäxi, Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:44 AM.


#2 retroclouds OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:12 AM

Hello again!

I have watched TI-99/4A game screenshots for years, but I tried those marvellous games just a little while ago for the very first time.


But my problem is, that DIG DUG hangs soon, I may be able to play to second or third screen (if I am lucky...) but then fire button ("Q"-key) starts to hang/pause the game instead of firing air-hose. Air-hose won´t appear at all, that "pause" goes off when I press "Q" again, but air-hose won´t appear any more, and it causes quick death every time, as I am defenseless against pookas and fygars. And no, it is not because I am standing too closely to the walls, it happens on fully open digged tunnel. And it seems that it happens (always?) when I am facing UPwards.

Also, usually after few "pauses" (when pressing "Q" to fire) game completely hangs, sound plays "one note" and after a while windows closes win994a. Though sometimes Dig Dug just dies and gets another try on another life. But after that, game may completely hang, like described. Oh, I have Vista on my PC.


I have played DIG DUG ****A LOT**** on win994a emulator in these few days, despite that very irritating sad problem. I like this TI-99/4A DIG DUG more than Namcot´s own MSX conversion, as TI has really neat looking multicolour DIGDUG! :) And, to my surprise, TI-99/4A sound is softer than MSX´s GI-AY-3-8910. (or at least on emulator played thru PC speakers) I like VERY MUCH that soft sound!!!!!!!!! :)

Oh, that DIG DUG music has one glitch, it plays two channels and noise channel normally, but also there can be heard VERY high pitched tone all the time during play. I guess it is because either bad ROM dump or emulator bug?

So, I hope someone there could help me. If it is bad cartridge dump, I really don´t have anymore time to search other DIG DUG version. Same about finding some other TI-99/4A emulator. (at least without any help and suggestions) I am doomed to be too busy. :| This cartridge version was found from some site and it was Zipped on one package along MANY MANY MANY other TI-99/4A cartridges.


Thank you already for any help! :)

-MäSäXi 2=)



I would first try it with either classic99 or MESS.
Checkout the emulator section in our development resources thread.

#3 mäsäxi OFFLINE  

mäsäxi

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Posted Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:31 AM

Eh, I can´t try DIG DUG on Classic99, as it has "built-in" games :) I am just average user, don´t have knowledge for putting more cartridge roms into classic99. :)

#4 jchase1970 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:57 AM

Eh, I can´t try DIG DUG on Classic99, as it has "built-in" games :) I am just average user, don´t have knowledge for putting more cartridge roms into classic99. :)

Have you got the newest version of win99. Version 1.009 is newest. I don't have these issues when using Vista. You could also try to run in xp comparable mode on Vista. It sounds like you are having some kind of Windows incompatibility issue.

#5 matthew180 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:20 AM

I highly recommend you use Classic99, if only for the fact that Tursi participates in the community and actively fixes / updates the emulator. Classic99 is also more accurate than Win994a, as well as being a real emulator vs. a simulator.

If you don't have the DigDug ROMs already, you can get them on ftp.whtech.com in the emulators/mess/old/modules directory. The two you are looking for are:

DigDugC.bin
DigDugD.bin

Put these files anywhere you want, just keep them together. Personally I just make a directory called CARTS in my Classic99 dir and put them in there. Now fire up Classic99 and select Cartridge->User->Open... You will get a file dialogue, so navigate to where you put the two files above, select the DigDugC.bin file, and click "Open". Classic99 will reset just like if you had plugged in the real cartridge and you will be looking at the Master Title Screen. Now just hit "2" to get to the menu screen and DigDug should be listed as option 2. So hit "2" again. That's it, enjoy DigDug. Worked fine for me and I played a round or two without any problems.

Matthew

#6 mäsäxi OFFLINE  

mäsäxi

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Posted Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:50 PM

Matthew´s classic99 help solved my problem. But I want to thank everyone for lending helping hand! :)

By the way, so classic99 has the most perfect ti-99/4a sound emulation? If that´s the case, then it sounds very much like MSX. :) So that "soft" sound was just some incorrectness of win994a?

#7 matthew180 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:24 PM

Matthew´s classic99 help solved my problem. But I want to thank everyone for lending helping hand! :)

By the way, so classic99 has the most perfect ti-99/4a sound emulation? If that´s the case, then it sounds very much like MSX. :) So that "soft" sound was just some incorrectness of win994a?


Win994a is a "simulator" (as indicated in the documentation that comes with it), Classic99 is an "emulator". The main difference is that that a simulator reproduces the original system using any means possible with a modern system, where an emulator will actually make attempts to reproduce the functionality of the hardware via software. To use your sound example, Win994a would use any means possible to produce the sounds (probably using samples), but Classic99 actually builds up a sound waveform on the fly based on the specs of the original sound chip.

Sound emulation is hard to do though, so anything done in software will only ever be "close". Actually, emulation on a multi-tasking OS is nothing short of a pain in the ass, and emulators can only get close. This is primarily because the OS is time-sharing the CPU in increments of about 1ms to 10ms per process, which makes the microsecond accuracy needed to run an emulator smoothly impossible. This is the main reason I quit working on mine, I got angry that a 2.5GHz computer could not give me the precision I needed to emulate a 3MHz computer. To get the best possible emulation, a single-tasking OS (or just skip running an OS all together) would be the best solution, like DOS. :-)

As for sounding like the MSX, the MSX computers use the AY-3-8910, which is very similar in functionality to the 9919 (SN76489 / SN76496). The main difference is that the 8910 has an envelope generator that can do a saw-tooth and triangle waveform, where the 9919 can only generate a square wave.

Matthew

#8 adamantyr OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:10 PM

As for sounding like the MSX, the MSX computers use the AY-3-8910, which is very similar in functionality to the 9919 (SN76489 / SN76496). The main difference is that the 8910 has an envelope generator that can do a saw-tooth and triangle waveform, where the 9919 can only generate a square wave.


Yeah, got any ideas on how you could turn the square wave into a saw-tooth or triangle on the TI via software?

Adamantyr

#9 jchase1970 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:31 PM

Matthew´s classic99 help solved my problem. But I want to thank everyone for lending helping hand! :)

By the way, so classic99 has the most perfect ti-99/4a sound emulation? If that´s the case, then it sounds very much like MSX. :) So that "soft" sound was just some incorrectness of win994a?



I've used Win994a alot in the past it's is a very good simulator. I mostly use c99 now because it is SO handy for developing programs on. The sound on the c99 is closer to the way the TI sounds then the win994a sound.

#10 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:41 AM

Matthew´s classic99 help solved my problem. But I want to thank everyone for lending helping hand! :)

By the way, so classic99 has the most perfect ti-99/4a sound emulation? If that´s the case, then it sounds very much like MSX. :) So that "soft" sound was just some incorrectness of win994a?


Classic99's sound is pretty close now.. still not perfect. In particular it can only change rates over 60 times a second (that's a temporary limitation), and I haven't verified the output of the white noise generator. In working on it I've already learned a few ways that it differs from popular documentation on similar sound chips (a big example is that if you set the frequency count to 0 on the Sega variations of the chip, you get a flat line high output, but the TI's version of the sound chip treats that as a count of >0400, making it the lowest possible frequency, which >03FF the second lowest).

The white noise generator is the biggest deal -- every variation of the chip did it a little differently, and if it doesn't match any of the normal patterns, it might be tricky to get the right values for it. But it sounds close enough for now, and the period should at least be right.

#11 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:42 AM

Yeah, got any ideas on how you could turn the square wave into a saw-tooth or triangle on the TI via software?
Adamantyr


Unless you know something we don't know, there's no way in software to change the wave output shape of the sound chip?

#12 sometimes99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:02 AM

As for sounding like the MSX, the MSX computers use the AY-3-8910, which is very similar in functionality to the 9919 (SN76489 / SN76496). The main difference is that the 8910 has an envelope generator that can do a saw-tooth and triangle waveform, where the 9919 can only generate a square wave.

I think that's ADSR (Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release) envelopes, not the basic waveform itself. The TI chip "just" has to do the ADSR itself using volume control (attenuation). That's why the chips "can" produce similar results.

:cool:

#13 marc.hull OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:29 AM

Yeah, got any ideas on how you could turn the square wave into a saw-tooth or triangle on the TI via software?
Adamantyr


Keep your eyes open in early November 2010 ;-)




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