S-Video

[GKC]

A few questions about the S-video for the Jag. Does the Jaguar need a special adapter for S-video or will it plug straight into the back of the Jaguar? I've notice that S-video is quite a bit more expensive than composite; does the picture quality justify the extra expense? Finally what is a reasonable price for S-video? Looking for something better than the RF adapter

 

Sorry for the noob questions but when it comes to the Jag, I am a noob.

 

Thanks

[ovalbugmann]

OMG! - I am soo sorry that you are using an RF connection to use your Jaguar - the Jag RF box had much interference problems and are just terrible. My condolences go out to you.

 

Yes, you can hook up S-Video or composite video right to the back of the Jaguar - but yes the video/audio cable needs to be specially made for the Jag. No need to pay $40-$50+ for one though, here is a quality Jag A/V cable that includes BOTH composite and S-video hookups for a good price: http://morethangames.a8maestro.com/prodgame/advert-g4.htm

Edited October 24, 2010 by ovalbugmann

[+LS650]

I have a "morethangames" Svideo cable. It works fine, and offers a great picture.

[GKC]

OMG! - I am soo sorry that you are using an RF connection to use your Jaguar - the Jag RF box had much interference problems and are just terrible. My condolences go out to you.

 

Yes, you can hook up S-Video or composite video right to the back of the Jaguar - but yes the video/audio cable needs to be specially made for the Jag. No need to pay $40-$50+ for one though, here is a quality Jag A/V cable that includes BOTH composite and S-video hookups for a good price: http://morethangames.a8maestro.com/prodgame/advert-g4.htm

 

Great thanks for the link. The RF has been pretty brutal but I've still enjoyed the Jag.

[im_reg]

I run my Jaguar through a Scart cable and find the picture pretty good. Does S-Video offer better picture and sound than a scart? Is it the best you can possibly get quality wise. I've been debating an S-Video lead for a while but the price has always put me off.

[kgenthe]

I run my Jaguar through a Scart cable and find the picture pretty good. Does S-Video offer better picture and sound than a scart? Is it the best you can possibly get quality wise. I've been debating an S-Video lead for a while but the price has always put me off.

 

Scart will offer a better picture than anything, including S-Video. (Scart separates the video as Red, Green, and Blue. S-video divides the video between Chroma and Luminance) There are no sound benefits.

 

Not any S-Video cable will do, there is no standard output jacks on the back of the Jag. As mentioned above, you need a cable made for the Jaguar.

[GKC]

Well nevermind looks like my new TV I bought last week doesn't even have a S-video plug-in. Well that narrows it down to composite for me.

 

Best Buy is on my list. Their floor model of my TV had S-video, it was one of the reasons I chose it over a different brand

[Hatta]

Return it.

[GKC]

Return it.

 

Yea I'm not sure it's worth the gas $ to get there. It's 2 hours away.

[Jag_Slave]

Picked up a sweet custom s-video cable on JSII... very clean!

[+save2600]

Yea I'm not sure it's worth the gas $ to get there. It's 2 hours away.

My memory was hazy on the difference too, but it really is worth it. Colors don't bleed together like composite and the graphics are that much more crisp. Probably moot now, but if you ever land a monitor/TV with S-video in - give it a try. I bet you'll be shocked at the difference too.

Edited December 23, 2010 by save2600

[busterm]

Picked up a sweet custom s-video cable on JSII... very clean!

 

 

I think that was one of mine your picked up.

 

Svideo is the best option for the Jaguar. Cleaner image and brighter colors.

[Gunstar]

I run my Jaguar through a Scart cable and find the picture pretty good. Does S-Video offer better picture and sound than a scart? Is it the best you can possibly get quality wise. I've been debating an S-Video lead for a while but the price has always put me off.

 

Scart will offer a better picture than anything, including S-Video. (Scart separates the video as Red, Green, and Blue. S-video divides the video between Chroma and Luminance) There are no sound benefits.

 

Not any S-Video cable will do, there is no standard output jacks on the back of the Jag. As mentioned above, you need a cable made for the Jaguar.

 

My understanding of the scart connection is that it holds lines for all of the above video types, and there are specific scart cables for each type of video, from composite to RGB. In other words, I think there might be separate S-video and RGB Jag scart cables. im_reg may have the s-video version scart cable, instead of the RGB. But yes, the RGB is definately better than S-video. NTSC users generally need to make an RGB cable or use a cat/scatbox for RGB output. Actually, the BEST video for the Jaguar is RGB out to an RGB2VGA converter giving a progressive scan VGA output.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Gunstar

[Jag_Slave]

Yeah it was yours! Great price, and runs great- I highly recommend people getting them from you

 

Oh, and those instructions saved me from alot of trouble btw

 

 

Picked up a sweet custom s-video cable on JSII... very clean!

 

 

I think that was one of mine your picked up.

 

Svideo is the best option for the Jaguar. Cleaner image and brighter colors.

[+Stephen]

Picked up a sweet custom s-video cable on JSII... very clean!

I got one also. Nicely built cable.

[Zerosquare]

Actually, the BEST video for the Jaguar is RGB out to an RGB2VGA converter giving a progressive scan VGA output.

Nah, the best video is RGB (through SCART) on a good old 15 kHz CRT monitor, as it was intended to be

[busterm]

Yeah it was yours! Great price, and runs great- I highly recommend people getting them from you

 

Oh, and those instructions saved me from alot of trouble btw

 

 

Picked up a sweet custom s-video cable on JSII... very clean!

 

 

I think that was one of mine your picked up.

 

Svideo is the best option for the Jaguar. Cleaner image and brighter colors.

 

 

Picked up a sweet custom s-video cable on JSII... very clean!

I got one also. Nicely built cable.

 

Glad you guys are enjoying the cables.

[kgenthe]

My understanding of the scart connection is that it holds lines for all of the above video types, and there are specific scart cables for each type of video, from composite to RGB. In other words, I think there might be separate S-video and RGB Jag scart cables. im_reg may have the s-video version scart cable, instead of the RGB. But yes, the RGB is definately better than S-video.

 

That's sort of correct. The Scart standard pretty much has a pin for everything, RGB, chroma/luminance (s-video), composite, 2 sound channel, etc.

 

Devices themselves may not use all 21 pins on a scart cables. Cheap DVD players, for example, may only output composite video and sound (which only uses 10 of the pins). Therefore you could buy a Scart cable that only has those 10 pins and save a few bucks.

 

Atari did not release 2 different Scart cables, one with only the wires necessary for S-Video and a second with the wires necessary for RGB. In fact, I know of no such Scart cable for any game consoles with wires missing for formats the console supports.

 

NTSC users generally need to make an RGB cable or use a cat/scatbox for RGB output. Actually, the BEST video for the Jaguar is RGB out to an RGB2VGA converter giving a progressive scan VGA output.

 

This depends on the TV, more specifically the chips in the TV. My 1080p is horribly slow at processing composite video, making gameplay on retro machines unplayable. Other TVs do an excellent job with composite video (better than the processing chips in stand alone converters). Some TVs do an excellent job with VGA, some do not (a friends DLP set had very strange overscan problems with a 480p signal). Some argue to the death that for American gamers, you should get a Scart to component converter (leaving things as analog 480i). It all depends. I only wrote this because you put "BEST" in caps

 

If I had to guess, for most gamers, the best option would be a Scart (RGB) to HDMI converter, and let the TV upconvert the 480p signal to it's native resolution.

 

The only retro system I have connected to my living room TV (55" LCD) is the Dreamcast. I use a VGA to HDMI converter from MonoPrice. The picture is excellent and there is no perceptible lag.

 

Edit: ZeroSquare is ultimately correct, a 15khz CRT monitor would be the best, no conversions that may introduce errors.

Edited December 24, 2010 by kgenthe

[Gunstar]

My understanding of the scart connection is that it holds lines for all of the above video types, and there are specific scart cables for each type of video, from composite to RGB. In other words, I think there might be separate S-video and RGB Jag scart cables. im_reg may have the s-video version scart cable, instead of the RGB. But yes, the RGB is definately better than S-video.

 

That's sort of correct. The Scart standard pretty much has a pin for everything, RGB, chroma/luminance (s-video), composite, 2 sound channel, etc.

 

Devices themselves may not use all 21 pins on a scart cables. Cheap DVD players, for example, may only output composite video and sound (which only uses 10 of the pins). Therefore you could buy a Scart cable that only has those 10 pins and save a few bucks.

 

Atari did not release 2 different Scart cables, one with only the wires necessary for S-Video and a second with the wires necessary for RGB. In fact, I know of no such Scart cable for any game consoles with wires missing for formats the console supports.

 

NTSC users generally need to make an RGB cable or use a cat/scatbox for RGB output. Actually, the BEST video for the Jaguar is RGB out to an RGB2VGA converter giving a progressive scan VGA output.

 

This depends on the TV, more specifically the chips in the TV. My 1080p is horribly slow at processing composite video, making gameplay on retro machines unplayable. Other TVs do an excellent job with composite video (better than the processing chips in stand alone converters). Some TVs do an excellent job with VGA, some do not (a friends DLP set had very strange overscan problems with a 480p signal). Some argue to the death that for American gamers, you should get a Scart to component converter (leaving things as analog 480i). It all depends. I only wrote this because you put "BEST" in caps

 

If I had to guess, for most gamers, the best option would be a Scart (RGB) to HDMI converter, and let the TV upconvert the 480p signal to it's native resolution.

 

The only retro system I have connected to my living room TV (55" LCD) is the Dreamcast. I use a VGA to HDMI converter from MonoPrice. The picture is excellent and there is no perceptible lag.

 

Edit: ZeroSquare is ultimately correct, a 15khz CRT monitor would be the best, no conversions that may introduce errors.

 

All I can say (about the "BEST video" thing) is I totally disagree. I have two CRT monitors I can hook up to the Jag via direct 15Khz RGB, a Commodore and an Atari, and neither has as good a quality picture as going RGB to VGA with my Ambery converter. For one thing, it isn't even 480i hooking a Jag up to a an

RGB CRT screen, it's 240p, skipping every other scan line. 480p is definitely better. Until you try RGB to VGA with progressive scan, you don't know, it's a world of difference, period. There is absolutely NO LAG AT ALL, and no "errors" the way I have it hooked up and I have both a CRT VGA monitor and a low-end LCD projector with VGA input, the picture is far above and beyond CRT RGB monitors in both cases, even though the CRT RGB monitors are the best out of the old standard.. I know from first hand experience, you obviously don't know. I have seen RGB to HDMI like you have, and there is no difference in quality between that and RGB to

VGA. Both "upconvert" with no lag and no errors at all. Of course there will be problems with cheap internal TV converting, you need quality external converters.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Gunstar

[kgenthe]

All I can say (about the "BEST video" thing) is I totally disagree. I have two CRT monitors I can hook up to the Jag via direct 15Khz RGB, a Commodore and an Atari, and neither has as good a quality picture as going RGB to VGA with my Ambery converter. For one thing, it isn't even 480i hooking a Jag up to a an

RGB CRT screen, it's 240p, skipping every other scan line. 480p is definitely better. Until you try RGB to VGA with progressive scan, you don't know, it's a world of difference, period. There is absolutely NO LAG AT ALL, and no "errors" the way I have it hooked up and I have both a CRT VGA monitor and a low-end LCD projector with VGA input, the picture is far above and beyond CRT RGB monitors in both cases, even though the CRT RGB monitors are the best out of the old standard.. I know from first hand experience, you obviously don't know. I have seen RGB to HDMI like you have, and there is no difference in quality between that and RGB to

VGA. Both "upconvert" with no lag and no errors at all. Of course there will be problems with cheap internal TV converting, you need quality external converters.

 

I don't appreciate your tone, and I hope i'm hoping I am simply misinterpreting it. I've been a computer nerd and audiophile/videophile enthusiast for years, so please do not tell me what I do know and what I do not know. I responded to all of your questions with good intent, and nothing but tact. And I will continue to do so.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the Ambery 15khz RGP to VGA converter looks terrific (and I have in-fact bookmarked the product for the future). I was not trying to accuse you of not knowing what you were talking about nor was I try to say you are wrong. What I was trying to say is that everyone's BEST is going to be dependent on their choice of equipment. It sounds like you've done you're research and know exactly how to get the best picture out of your Jaguar.

 

The Jaguar outputs a specific signal and there is only a finite amount of detail. If you start with an RGB signal, you are never going to get more detail than what is available in that signal. You can't create detail out of nothing. You have hit on a good point however. A modern display should outperform an old display (old CRT vs new LCD) in terms of sharpness and color, and contrast.

 

In a perfect world, all things being equal, a 15kHz CRT monitor will produce the most accurate picture. In the real world, performance WILL vary.

[Zerosquare]

All I can say (about the "BEST video" thing) is I totally disagree. I have two CRT monitors I can hook up to the Jag via direct 15Khz RGB, a Commodore and an Atari, and neither has as good a quality picture as going RGB to VGA with my Ambery converter.

You have an excellent converter, and probably poor CRT monitors (which wouldn't be surprising since they're pretty old now). Or maybe you prefer the LCD "look" over the CRT one, which is a matter of taste.

 

For one thing, it isn't even 480i hooking a Jag up to a an RGB CRT screen, it's 240p, skipping every other scan line. 480p is definitely better. Until you try RGB to VGA with progressive scan, you don't know, it's a world of difference, period.

Converting it to 480p is necessary because VGA doesn't support anything less than that, but it doesn't make it look better than 240p ; you can't add graphic detail that's not there to begin with.

 

There is absolutely NO LAG AT ALL, and no "errors" the way I have it hooked up and I have both a CRT VGA monitor and a low-end LCD projector with VGA input, the picture is far above and beyond CRT RGB monitors in both cases, even though the CRT RGB monitors are the best out of the old standard.. I know from first hand experience, you obviously don't know. I have seen RGB to HDMI like you have, and there is no difference in quality between that and RGB to

VGA. Both "upconvert" with no lag and no errors at all. Of course there will be problems with cheap internal TV converting, you need quality external converters.

Sure, with a high-end video converter like yours, the picture will look excellent and you won't be worried with sync issues, delayed video, etc.. But most of them, especially the ones embedded in TV and projectors, aren't. In most cases, especially is your money is tight, using a 15 kHz RGB monitor is a better choice.

 

EDIT : that's pretty much the same point as kgenthe's

Edited December 24, 2010 by Zerosquare

[Gunstar]

All I can say (about the "BEST video" thing) is I totally disagree. I have two CRT monitors I can hook up to the Jag via direct 15Khz RGB, a Commodore and an Atari, and neither has as good a quality picture as going RGB to VGA with my Ambery converter.

You have an excellent converter, and probably poor CRT monitors (which wouldn't be surprising since they're pretty old now). Or maybe you prefer the LCD "look" over the CRT one, which is a matter of taste.

 

For one thing, it isn't even 480i hooking a Jag up to a an RGB CRT screen, it's 240p, skipping every other scan line. 480p is definitely better. Until you try RGB to VGA with progressive scan, you don't know, it's a world of difference, period.

Converting it to 480p is necessary because VGA doesn't support anything less than that, but it doesn't make it look better than 240p ; you can't add graphic detail that's not there to begin with.

 

There is absolutely NO LAG AT ALL, and no "errors" the way I have it hooked up and I have both a CRT VGA monitor and a low-end LCD projector with VGA input, the picture is far above and beyond CRT RGB monitors in both cases, even though the CRT RGB monitors are the best out of the old standard.. I know from first hand experience, you obviously don't know. I have seen RGB to HDMI like you have, and there is no difference in quality between that and RGB to

VGA. Both "upconvert" with no lag and no errors at all. Of course there will be problems with cheap internal TV converting, you need quality external converters.

Sure, with a high-end video converter like yours, the picture will look excellent and you won't be worried with sync issues, delayed video, etc.. But most of them, especially the ones embedded in TV and projectors, aren't. In most cases, especially is your money is tight, using a 15 kHz RGB monitor is a better choice.

 

EDIT : that's pretty much the same point as kgenthe's

 

I'm not even sure where to start, but a 480p picture most definitely looks better than the 240p because no scan lines are skipped, it's not making it higher res, but it is doubling the scan lines and is a much more solid and colorful image, and sharper as a result. My CRT monitors are commonly known to be superior models. the rest of what you said is just repeating what I said. Try to read everything I've said, I said it differently but the end result is the same meaning. As I said before, my experience IS FIRST HAND.

[Gunstar]

All I can say (about the "BEST video" thing) is I totally disagree. I have two CRT monitors I can hook up to the Jag via direct 15Khz RGB, a Commodore and an Atari, and neither has as good a quality picture as going RGB to VGA with my Ambery converter. For one thing, it isn't even 480i hooking a Jag up to a an

RGB CRT screen, it's 240p, skipping every other scan line. 480p is definitely better. Until you try RGB to VGA with progressive scan, you don't know, it's a world of difference, period. There is absolutely NO LAG AT ALL, and no "errors" the way I have it hooked up and I have both a CRT VGA monitor and a low-end LCD projector with VGA input, the picture is far above and beyond CRT RGB monitors in both cases, even though the CRT RGB monitors are the best out of the old standard.. I know from first hand experience, you obviously don't know. I have seen RGB to HDMI like you have, and there is no difference in quality between that and RGB to

VGA. Both "upconvert" with no lag and no errors at all. Of course there will be problems with cheap internal TV converting, you need quality external converters.

 

I don't appreciate your tone, and I hope i'm hoping I am simply misinterpreting it. I've been a computer nerd and audiophile/videophile enthusiast for years, so please do not tell me what I do know and what I do not know. I responded to all of your questions with good intent, and nothing but tact. And I will continue to do so.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the Ambery 15khz RGP to VGA converter looks terrific (and I have in-fact bookmarked the product for the future). I was not trying to accuse you of not knowing what you were talking about nor was I try to say you are wrong. What I was trying to say is that everyone's BEST is going to be dependent on their choice of equipment. It sounds like you've done you're research and know exactly how to get the best picture out of your Jaguar.

 

The Jaguar outputs a specific signal and there is only a finite amount of detail. If you start with an RGB signal, you are never going to get more detail than what is available in that signal. You can't create detail out of nothing. You have hit on a good point however. A modern display should outperform an old display (old CRT vs new LCD) in terms of sharpness and color, and contrast.

 

In a perfect world, all things being equal, a 15kHz CRT monitor will produce the most accurate picture. In the real world, performance WILL vary.

 

I could easily say the same thing to you about your "tone." I guess we are both being a bit sensitive. But you have said nothing I am not perfectly aware of here, except this statement is meaningless to my point: "The Jaguar outputs a specific signal and there is only a finite amount of detail. If you start with an RGB signal, you are never going to get more detail than what is available in that signal. You can't create detail out of nothing." I'm not refering to "detail" or resolution. Obviously the resolution is not increased, but filling in the skipped scan lines of a 240p picture will always give a sharper, more colorful and solid picture by not having black scan lines every other line. Why you can't understand this is beyond me, but once again, I am speaking from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE in this matter. Contradicting me won't change the facts.

 

As to your last line, all I can do is hold my forefinger and thumb on the bridge of my nose and close my eyes and shake my head, to the negative. Maybe we will just have to live with each others "tone."

Edited December 25, 2010 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

All I can say (about the "BEST video" thing) is I totally disagree. I have two CRT monitors I can hook up to the Jag via direct 15Khz RGB, a Commodore and an Atari, and neither has as good a quality picture as going RGB to VGA with my Ambery converter. For one thing, it isn't even 480i hooking a Jag up to a an

RGB CRT screen, it's 240p, skipping every other scan line. 480p is definitely better. Until you try RGB to VGA with progressive scan, you don't know, it's a world of difference, period. There is absolutely NO LAG AT ALL, and no "errors" the way I have it hooked up and I have both a CRT VGA monitor and a low-end LCD projector with VGA input, the picture is far above and beyond CRT RGB monitors in both cases, even though the CRT RGB monitors are the best out of the old standard.. I know from first hand experience, you obviously don't know. I have seen RGB to HDMI like you have, and there is no difference in quality between that and RGB to

VGA. Both "upconvert" with no lag and no errors at all. Of course there will be problems with cheap internal TV converting, you need quality external converters.

 

I don't appreciate your tone, and I hope i'm hoping I am simply misinterpreting it. I've been a computer nerd and audiophile/videophile enthusiast for years, so please do not tell me what I do know and what I do not know. I responded to all of your questions with good intent, and nothing but tact. And I will continue to do so.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the Ambery 15khz RGP to VGA converter looks terrific (and I have in-fact bookmarked the product for the future). I was not trying to accuse you of not knowing what you were talking about nor was I try to say you are wrong. What I was trying to say is that everyone's BEST is going to be dependent on their choice of equipment. It sounds like you've done you're research and know exactly how to get the best picture out of your Jaguar.

 

The Jaguar outputs a specific signal and there is only a finite amount of detail. If you start with an RGB signal, you are never going to get more detail than what is available in that signal. You can't create detail out of nothing. You have hit on a good point however. A modern display should outperform an old display (old CRT vs new LCD) in terms of sharpness and color, and contrast.

 

In a perfect world, all things being equal, a 15kHz CRT monitor will produce the most accurate picture. In the real world, performance WILL vary.

 

I could easily say the same thing to you about your "tone." I guess we are both being a bit sensitive. But you have said nothing I am not perfectly aware of here, except this statement is meaningless to my point: "The Jaguar outputs a specific signal and there is only a finite amount of detail. If you start with an RGB signal, you are never going to get more detail than what is available in that signal. You can't create detail out of nothing." I'm not refering to "detail" or resolution. Obviously the resolution is not increased, but filling in the skipped scan lines of a 240p picture will always give a sharper, more colorful and solid picture by not having black scan lines every other line. Why you can't understand this is beyond me, but once again, I am speaking from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE in this matter. Contradicting me won't change the facts.

 

As to your last line, all I can do is hold my forefinger and thumb on the bridge of my nose and close my eyes and shake my head, to the negative. Maybe we will just have to live with each others "tone."

EDIT: I think I may have figured out were some confusion lies in this discussion; I did not mention that my VGA monitor is a CRT monitor (I don't recall brand or model, but it's good. Not at home right now to see.), I only mentioned the LCD projector specifically. I didn't think of it, and you may have assumed I was referring to a LCD monitor. I'm telling everyone, that with the Ambery RGB>VGA converter the 480p CRT VGA screen is much better looking than 240p RGB on a 480i Commodore 1084S monitor, commonly known to be one of the best. Of course the end quality of any monitor or TV is dependent on how good the final image is, that is always assumed, by me, to be understood. Continuing my specificity, The BEST video image for the Jaguar, that I know of that is superior to RGB to a quality 480i CRT monitor is RGB to VGA via an Ambery converter and a quality VGA compatible TV or monitor, CRT, LCD, LED, Plasma or other, depending on your personal preference. I promise to no longer be so vague and assume complete specificity is not required, assuming people know I know what I'm talking about, else I don't get involved except with questions. audio/videophile enthusiast, with 2 year electronics degree and experience spanning almost 4 decades. No, I don't know everything but I only give answers about what I do know. Thank you and have a nice day.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Gunstar

[kgenthe]

EDIT: I think I may have figured out were some confusion lies in this discussion; I did not mention that my VGA monitor is a CRT monitor (I don't recall brand or model, but it's good. Not at home right now to see.), I only mentioned the LCD projector specifically. I didn't think of it, and you may have assumed I was referring to a LCD monitor. I'm telling everyone, that with the Ambery RGB>VGA converter the 480p CRT VGA screen is much better looking than 240p RGB on a 480i Commodore 1084S monitor, commonly known to be one of the best. Of course the end quality of any monitor or TV is dependent on how good the final image is, that is always assumed, by me, to be understood. Continuing my specificity, The BEST video image for the Jaguar, that I know of that is superior to RGB to a quality 480i CRT monitor is RGB to VGA via an Ambery converter and a quality VGA compatible TV or monitor, CRT, LCD, LED, Plasma or other, depending on your personal preference. I promise to no longer be so vague and assume complete specificity is not required, assuming people know I know what I'm talking about, else I don't get involved except with questions. audio/videophile enthusiast, with 2 year electronics degree and experience spanning almost 4 decades. No, I don't know everything but I only give answers about what I do know. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

Perhaps "BEST" is simply a subjective term. No need for apology.