Experiences and suggestions and wishes

[marc.hull]

This could be kind of a touchy subject so lets please keep it clean, honest and up front.

 

As per Tim's suggestion...

 

"So put your thinking caps on Matthew, Marc, Jon, Walid, and whomever I missed, let's give thought to how can we help Hal to push the envelope (SID pun alert) for this event we call the Chicago Faire. Only about 360 days to go..."

 

Those who attended this years or past faires and those who have not attended but plan to, We'd like to hear what your thoughts were, what was good and what could have been approved. I plan on inviting Hal to read this "official" thread in hopes we can all find a little middle ground and have next years experience the best in at least recent times. All of this must be of course in the context that the faire does actually belong to the CTIUG and we are all guests.

 

As far as what I liked ? It's mostly the people ! I like interacting with you all and getting a feel for everyone. As Mathew said it gives you an insight as to peoples personality that you don't get on any forum and lets you see projects first hand.

 

I liked the presentations that have new content and are more relevant to new developments. I appreciate the people that filtered their information and did not bombard us with truckloads of sometime questionable content.

 

 

For my tastes the format was backwards. The lions share of the time was needlessly dominated by up front demonstrations and reports. I would much prefer a less formal scenario in which people could set up at a table and invite others to view their goods or projects or just talk and make contacts new or old. I think that this could be accomplished by allowing each presenter or new project 20 minutes or so speaking time followed by a Q&A until that peters out. That should be pretty much self regulating. If more time is needed then that person can carry on at their table during the open time. I would participate in a hard and fast schedule for presentations and participate in those discussions with Hal, which I must admit I did not do this time which inconsiderate to Hal and my fault.

 

Personally I don't care for the two day format just different management of the time at hand.

 

I would also like to see Friday nights event moved to the Best Western since that seems to be the central point. While there I looked at one of the suites and it is large enough to hold at least as many people as I saw at the American Legion and it has the advantage of #1 not having to go anywhere after an all ready long day(s) of travel and #2 being close to everyone's gear so they don't have to haul it around yet again. I'd be willing to front the cost for the suite and the beverages (Although it would be nice to split it up ) and also have an idea as to how to populate it with gear from a local source(s) (for those flying) in exchange for using the room as an abode after the get together.

 

If possible I'd like to see a date for next years event posted ASAP (like in January.) It can make quite a dramatic difference in both airfare and cost of accommodations if early booking is possible and could also lock in the fence sitters .

 

Again these are just my opinions and we all know what opinions are like 8-O.

 

For those of you wondering about travel costs.... As an example SW was running a special. Round trip for two from OKC was less than $400.00 which is not bad at all (your mileage may vary.). The hotel room after tax was $90 buck a night. Some research shows that a train ride from the airport to Evanston runs less than 5 bucks a head. Sunday my wife and I rode the train all around Chicago with absolutely no problems at all! It's clean, relatively fast, easy to navigate, extremely cheap and the stop is three blocks from the Hotel.

 

Anyway I've run my yap long enough. I'd like to hear suggestions from everyone else.

 

Marc (who promises to be a bit more mature next year;-))

[Opry99er]

I have never attended the Faire, but plan to... so I guess that puts me in that particular category. I watched every minute of the Faire and banquet last year online and I have a couple of suggestions... Of course, being there in person is most decidedly an entirely different experience, but here goes:

 

In my estimation, we need a legitimate and RECOGNIZED time limit on presentations. This is not directed towards any one person, but I remember getting bored and walking away from my computer when a presentation went on for more than 15 minutes... I went back and watched them later, but a few of the presentations were pretty long and boring. Now, of course SOME projects will require a bit more time, so I suggest that there be a "post-presentation-table" set up for those who have a ton of questions, beyond the standard Q&A which is definitely cool.

 

**I went to a vintage gaming conference a couple years ago and saw something similar to this... The presenters would show their hardware or games, (usually 15 minutes was the tops), take 5 minutes of Q&A, then they would go off to the side where a very nice table was set up for demonstration, talking, selling of demonstrated items, etc. The table was set up with the presenter's stuff before he started his presentation and this allowed people to get a hands-on look at what was about to be talked about. There were actually two tables with nice black velvet tablecloths on them, right off to the side of the main presentation podium. When one presenter finished and went to his table, people would go over and talk, buy items, etc. The second table would then be set up with the NEXT presenter's items (if he had any to present and it wasn't just a game in code) giving everyone time to get situated, talk, chat, etc. Once the next presentation started, the items from the first table were taken to another spot in the back for viewing. Then, when that presenter was done, the table was re-set with the next items. And so on and so on. I've drawn a picture of how it was set up at this fest... in case you're interested.

 

 

Since I've never attended, all I can do is speculate from the position of watching online... I hope to be there next year. and I hope this suggestion helps Hal and the CTIUG.

[Tursi]

I think I agree, it would be nice to turn the focus back towards the tables. Though I've only attended two faires so far, I get the impression that the presentations were really all that was left for a long time, so maybe it's just the changing nature of us newbies!

 

A 20 minute presentation timeout is probably a good idea, there's not much that you can't get the basics covered in that time, and it's good training to keep a presentation short. Hal worried at one point in the day about running out of stuff too early, but in fact the opposite happened - we ran out of time. I'm sure it's a difficult balance when you aren't sure in advance what's actually going to be shown, we could probably help with a more collaborative planning.

[+retroclouds]

Let me start by saying that I'm kinda sad I wasn't at the faire. I really would have loved to see all of you in person, seriously

Last year I visited Paderborn and Birkenau in Germany. This year I unfortunately couldn't make it.

 

Here in Germany there were no real presentations (at least not in 2009). I found that a bit disapointing, especially when looking

at the Youtube video recordings of last years faire. Then again, perhaps it isn't that bad having too many presentations after all.

 

I guess it all depends on what one is interested in. Myself I'm a technical guy and I'm interested in learning more about

the newest TI-99/4A hardware and software (tools). Then you have folks in the TI scene that are mainly interested in socializing,

talking about memories and that kind of stuff. That's not my cup of tea. It's ok for a short while, but after that ...

 

As far as presentations are concerned: It's important to have a "time keeper" that tells the presenter how much time

is remaining for the presentation. IMO a presentation should not take longer than 20 minutes (or 30 minutes if there is a big computer demo

or if it's the main presentation for the day). Ofcourse it doesn't harm the presenter is well prepared.

 

I also don't think any time should be spent on this ustream thing. That service really is a piece of crap if you ask me.

A good quality video recording I can view at a later time is worth a 100x times more.

 

Well that's just my 2 cents on the topic

[matthew180]

My suggestion would be to cross-pollinate, so I went looking for other computer events in Chicago; I imagined there must be a C64 or Atari group at least as large and active as the TI group. Sure enough, I found a C64 convention held in September in Lombard (about as far sound of O'Hare as Evanston is East), and in 2010 the *COMBINED* with the VCFMW (vintage computer festival midwest) that was in it's 5th year!!! They take over a single hotel, have lots of cool gear, presentation, talks, etc. and they are coordinated enough to even have T-Shirts printed, a LEGO table for kids (kids? imagine that!), people there with soldering stations doing repairs, etc. Really my kind of event. I'd love to see the TI group combine and join in there too. I'm seriously considering attending that event next year, possibly instead of the TI Faire... Heresy I know, but it would be nice to have our show pushed into the 21st century. Hell, they even had a 99/4 there. I've never even *seen* a real 99/4...

 

Here is the official web page (found it on the A.A. list of events... imagine that). It is not much, but more than we have. There are links to people's photos of the event, I suggest you check some out, very cool.

 

http://starbase.globalpc.net/eccc/

 

http://vcfmw.org/

 

The best photo galleries are on the VCFMW page, which again is not much (just text based sites), but at least they have an official domain. I even downloaded some of the photos since I know some of you are to lazy to go check it out.

 

Matthew

[InfernalKeith]

Myself also speaking as a wishful non-attender, I like the idea of shorter, scheduled presentations and then tables for setup, expanded demos, sales, Q&A, etc. Not every person is gonna be into every demo so keeping the presentation to the main group short and focused will ultimately get more information across than a longer presentation that makes people's eyes glaze over. And I would second that a "stage manager" minding the clock is essential. From my experience playing in bands, once someone's on stage, they WILL go over their time, usually not intentionally, and it takes a gentle, firm "two minutes, buddy" to get people to rein it in and not screw whoever has to go last. (It also falls to us as attendees to remember that no one here's a seasoned public speaker, and that getting up in front of a few dozen fellow 99'ers could legitimately scare the bejeezus out of some people, so slack should be cut if someone is awkward or rambling.)

 

The option of a table without a presentation would be good too. For me, as an example, I'd love to bring my system and have my games running if anyone wanted to try them out, but I don't think anyone needs to sit through a 20-minute presentation of my mad XB spaghetti coding skills, or my lack of prowess at getting my own damn penguin across an ice floe. A table in the corner and an outlet would be all I'd need, or ask for, if I was able to "present" my wares.

 

As for the demos vs nostalgia and socializing, there should be no reason to have to choose between the two. If there are multiple activities going on at different tables, those folks who want to catch up can do so, and those who want to demo stuff or watch other people's demos have that option. I definitely feel like walking into a TI Faire is kinda stepping on 'hallowed ground,' so to speak, and those who've been keeping the console light on for all these years should never be made to feel like they can't reminisce and kibitz at their own event. As was mentioned on the Yahoo! forum recently, there's a lot of TI world outside these forums, and a lot that was there when I wasn't, so that space must be respected.

 

And as someone who likes playing around with other systems, I love the idea of reaching out and being a part of these other events as well. Having our own little lunch table here on AtariAge has already awakened some other enthusiasts to the fact that the 99/4A community still exists. Showing off some of our latest tech and sharing ideas and camraderie with fellow retro geeks would be a blast, and probably get some cool project ideas going.

[+OLD CS1]

@Matthew:

 

I would be more likely to attend something like that. Not because I *need* the extra draw to a TI Faire, but because it would be so big with so much involved. Every year since 1995 I have planned to make AmiWest (the Amiga show in California) and have not been able to do so; similarly, I have wanted to attend a TI Faire, and was thrilled to see that it was still happening after all these years. I am jealous of all the gatherings over in Europe for the various platforms, and also that there is nothing in the south-east -- you would think there might be something happening in Atlanta, at least!

[+Vorticon]

I think I agree, it would be nice to turn the focus back towards the tables. Though I've only attended two faires so far, I get the impression that the presentations were really all that was left for a long time, so maybe it's just the changing nature of us newbies!

 

A 20 minute presentation timeout is probably a good idea, there's not much that you can't get the basics covered in that time, and it's good training to keep a presentation short. Hal worried at one point in the day about running out of stuff too early, but in fact the opposite happened - we ran out of time. I'm sure it's a difficult balance when you aren't sure in advance what's actually going to be shown, we could probably help with a more collaborative planning.

You are right there Mike. I remember when every table was packed with goodies, then it kind of dwindled away. This year was the first time when we actually had a ton of stuff to look at and acquire. As far as time management, it definitely could have been better, and setting time limits is going to be essential with all the new stuff coming out!

[InfernalKeith]

> setting time limits is going to be essential with all the new stuff coming out!

 

 

 

And what an awesome "problem" to have!

[matthew180]

As for the demos vs nostalgia and socializing, there should be no reason to have to choose between the two. If there are multiple activities going on at different tables, those folks who want to catch up can do so, and those who want to demo stuff or watch other people's demos have that option.

 

Well, we did have to choose. For those of us who came on Friday, the *event* at the American Legion was about drinking and talking about anything other than TI. There was no gear, and the conversation focused mostly around politics and other failed topics. Several of us had to excuse ourselves and head back to the hotel to mess with computers and code.

 

Also, on Saturday we had no choice but to choose between the presentations and, well, whispering. I got reprimanded for looking through stuff at another table during a "presentation" that had already gone over an hour...

 

I definitely feel like walking into a TI Faire is kinda stepping on 'hallowed ground,' so to speak, and those who've been keeping the console light on for all these years should never be made to feel like they can't reminisce and kibitz at their own event. As was mentioned on the Yahoo! forum recently, there's a lot of TI world outside these forums, and a lot that was there when I wasn't, so that space must be respected.

 

I guess I don't share your religion on that. There are *many* people who think all things TI are sacred and can not change. I'm not one of them. I think the effort that Hal puts into making the Faire happen every year is great, since if he did not do it then the Faire would not happen. However, that does not mean Hal owns the "rights" to all events TI. The Faire runs the way Hal likes it, and that is fine, but since there is a growing interest lately, and since some of us don't want to hurry to the "drinking and reminiscing" part of the Faire, we need to get some changes made to the way the Faire runs. If Hal is not interested in changing anything, then like the A.A. forums, we will have to do our own thing.

 

I met Hal, really, for the first time this year. He's a nice person and really enjoys all things about the Faire, and because he is the main event coordinator he becomes the focus of all the complaints people have. You have to have tough skin to deal with stuff like that. But our intentions are to make it a better Faire for everyone by making suggestions and such. However, the same suggestions were made last year about having the presentations in the same room as the tables, and nothing changed, so the appearance is that Hal (the one and only event coordinator) likes it that way, or is not interested in changing anything.

 

Personally I'm going to push for combining with the ECCC and VCFWM events. We can still have TI presentations, the award ceremony, and all that, plus the benefit of the other shows. A bigger show like that really helps justify the cost for those coming across the country or across an ocean.

 

Matthew

[marc.hull]

As for the demos vs nostalgia and socializing, there should be no reason to have to choose between the two. If there are multiple activities going on at different tables, those folks who want to catch up can do so, and those who want to demo stuff or watch other people's demos have that option.

 

Well, we did have to choose. For those of us who came on Friday, the *event* at the American Legion was about drinking and talking about anything other than TI. There was no gear, and the conversation focused mostly around politics and other failed topics. Several of us had to excuse ourselves and head back to the hotel to mess with computers and code.

 

Also, on Saturday we had no choice but to choose between the presentations and, well, whispering. I got reprimanded for looking through stuff at another table during a "presentation" that had already gone over an hour...

 

I definitely feel like walking into a TI Faire is kinda stepping on 'hallowed ground,' so to speak, and those who've been keeping the console light on for all these years should never be made to feel like they can't reminisce and kibitz at their own event. As was mentioned on the Yahoo! forum recently, there's a lot of TI world outside these forums, and a lot that was there when I wasn't, so that space must be respected.

 

I guess I don't share your religion on that. There are *many* people who think all things TI are sacred and can not change. I'm not one of them. I think the effort that Hal puts into making the Faire happen every year is great, since if he did not do it then the Faire would not happen. However, that does not mean Hal owns the "rights" to all events TI. The Faire runs the way Hal likes it, and that is fine, but since there is a growing interest lately, and since some of us don't want to hurry to the "drinking and reminiscing" part of the Faire, we need to get some changes made to the way the Faire runs. If Hal is not interested in changing anything, then like the A.A. forums, we will have to do our own thing.

 

I met Hal, really, for the first time this year. He's a nice person and really enjoys all things about the Faire, and because he is the main event coordinator he becomes the focus of all the complaints people have. You have to have tough skin to deal with stuff like that. But our intentions are to make it a better Faire for everyone by making suggestions and such. However, the same suggestions were made last year about having the presentations in the same room as the tables, and nothing changed, so the appearance is that Hal (the one and only event coordinator) likes it that way, or is not interested in changing anything.

 

Personally I'm going to push for combining with the ECCC and VCFWM events. We can still have TI presentations, the award ceremony, and all that, plus the benefit of the other shows. A bigger show like that really helps justify the cost for those coming across the country or across an ocean.

 

Matthew

 

I really hope this doesn't turn into an "if you don't do things our way then we are going to take our toys and go elsewhere" deal. I really think we can find some common ground between the traditional group and us newbies. The TI landscape is changing more than it probably has in the last 15 years or so and I think it has caught a lot of people unaware and flat footed. Hal has most likely needed someone to talk about why salt is white in the past to fill in time and just needs some proof that he can conduct a full event without a four hour bleached flour filler.

 

If we expect then we should also be prepared to give a little as well. By this I mean if your presenting a new item you should do a stand up regardless. If your a little unsure then go right after me and my lack of speaking ability will make you look good .

 

Lip service about attending the faire does no good. I imagine one of the issues that Hal has is never knowing who is going to show or not. Provided Hal can schedule a date early in the year like January then that gives everyone plenty of time to plan and save some cash up. Understandably things crop up but every year there are too many good intentions with little follow through. I have been guilty of this in the past as well.

 

If we want a little input on this thing then we need to provide a little currency in the form of larger numbers participating and a little better attention on having our products finished and if possible for sale (guilty here.) Nothing would get the masses jacked up more than being able to leave the faire with something new and exciting in tow.

 

I guess what I am saying is lets be prepared to give as well as ask for change...

[+Vorticon]

Actually Hal has already set the date for the Faire next year in his Faire report on the Yahoo group (I forget but it's early November again). I am positive that Hal will be open to any changes we suggest, again because the dynamics of the TI community itself are changing.

That said, we should respect all the work Hal has done over the years in maintaining and perpetuating the Faire against overwhelming odds, and I find it grossly insensitive when suggestions are made "to take our wares elsewhere", especially coming from some who have never attended the Faire before. And I personally have no interest in diluting the TI Faire with other classic computer conventions. If I want to see other computer systems, I can always attend other venues...

 

My 2 cents...

Edited November 11, 2010 by Vorticon

[matthew180]

I'm not threatening anything... Ugh, this is totally a conversation that needs to be had IN PERSON.

 

However, some people can't go to multiple computer shows a year, and the size of ours is obviously not big enough to entice even a fraction of the actual TI community to attend. When you are small or hurting, you reach out for help.

 

I'm also not against helping out, I'm willing to step up, however Hal has not asked for help... If he has already set the date for next year, then obviously it will again be at the Evanston library, follow the same format, etc. and that would indicate to me that nothing is going to change. There was also a comment made over on the Y! list that "there's a lot of TI world outside these forums". So what is being done to let those other people know about the Faire, and to get them to come?

 

To affect change for the good of the entire Faire, IMO this is what needs to happen:

 

1. Hal needs to agree that he could use some help.

2. A committee formed to make decisions and spread out the workload.

 

The rest is committee work:

 

1. An official domain registered.

2. A website created with tons of info about past Faires, and info about the upcoming Faire.

3. An appropriate venue and time of year selected.

4. Vendor commitments made and advertised.

5. Pre-registration opened as soon as the current year's Faire is over.

6. Charge $10 or $20 a day to attend (people spent more than that on beer.)

7. Advertise like crazy. There are tons of free "computer events" lists all over, none of which mention the TI World Faire.

8. Make a news letter or official periodic news posts on the official website.

 

I'm all for charging since we are too small to have the event for free. That would give us options that we don't currently have, like picking a venue that we can use 24-hours from Friday to Sunday, catering the events ceremony, etc. At the "peek" of the day Saturday I stopped and did a head count in the room: 30. That's it guys (there were no women, except 1 who came along with her husband who was there for 15 minutes.) But, 30 * $20 each is still $600 that could have been used to help run the event.

 

I don't think joining with another related event would dilute anything. Setting up the sub-forum here on A.A. did not dilute the rest of the A.A. forum, or affect anyone posting here. Everyone thinks the new hardware is really cool, but right now there are only 2 or 3 of us and we can only do so much. Other retro-computer systems have had their systems implemented in an FPGA for *years*. They have ethernet cards, USB devices, mega carts, etc. So getting some face time with the people doing that hardware for those systems would help entice them to look at the 99/4A. Hell, Marc's sound card is using the C64's SID chip, so imagine if he got to talk to that guy at the C64 show who was hacking the C64's sound! Or what the C64 guys would think about us adopting their sound card... Everybody wins.

 

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree though, for what I want from a TI computer Faire. I had three primary TI-related goals (the other goals were to meet people from the forum, which was a great success) for the Faire:

 

1. To have some good talks about additional features for the F18A beyond original 9918A functionality.

2. To talk about what people want in the way for a mega-cart, or the direction we should be going with the current cart developments.

3. To talk, in detail, about new hardware that people might want, like PEB replacements, networking, video, sound, keyboards, etc.

 

I did not get a chance to talk to anyone about any of that. Making hardware takes a *lot* of time and money, and trying to guess what people want sucks. It is better to ask and talk about it. Yes you can do that in the forums, but talking face to face with people is a rare treat, and it did not happen much this year. Am I expecting too much from the Faire to assume people there also want to talk about new hardware at a technical level?

 

Anyway, I've said my piece. I would like the Faire to grow and have more emphasis on keeping people together longer to mess with the computers (the reason we are there, right??) I'm willing to help any way I can, however I'm going to be pessimistic (it's my nature) and say "they" don't want change. I hope I'm proven wrong!

 

Matthew

[marc.hull]

 

I find it grossly insensitive when suggestions are made "to take our wares elsewhere", especially coming from some who have never attended the Faire before.

 

 

Hmmmmmm......I didn't see that anywhere Walid.

[InfernalKeith]

Without further kicking what looks like it may become a hornet's nest... was Friday night supposed to be anything but socializing? From the information I saw, that was the impression that I got -- that the "meat" of the Faire was Saturday and that the get-together Friday night was just that.

 

I think the simple act of finding a venue with two rooms might alleviate a lot of the issues being brought up. If there was a presentation room and a table/vendor/demo room, it could give everyone the space to get what they wanted out of the event.

[matthew180]

Without further kicking what looks like it may become a hornet's nest... was Friday night supposed to be anything but socializing? From the information I saw, that was the impression that I got -- that the "meat" of the Faire was Saturday and that the get-together Friday night was just that.

 

A few of us tried to suggest something other than the American Legion for Friday night, since we wanted to talk TI and hack some code. However, it was stressed that Hal had already reserved the American Legion and that we should be good TIers and participate in the official events. I had never done the Friday night stuff before and thought "oh well, I'll just set up at the American Legion..." Well, that didn't happen. It was apparent once I got there that the goal for Friday night was consumption (as well as Saturday night after the awards ceremony.) That's fine for some, but not what I wanted to do, so I left early (11pm or so by that time) and headed over to the hotel to check out some TI gear and code. It was a 4-person party for a little while, cut short by tiredness.

 

But like I said before, my idea of the Faire might be 180 degrees from the other 29 attendees, in which case I'll find my fix somewhere else. When I drive 250 miles one way and spend a few hundred bucks on parking tickets and hotels, I don't want to spend the majority of my time randomly socializing. Hacking code, discussing 99/4A related stuff, looking at new and old hardware, buying, selling, etc. is my idea of a computer faire.

 

I think the simple act of finding a venue with two rooms might alleviate a lot of the issues being brought up. If there was a presentation room and a table/vendor/demo room, it could give everyone the space to get what they wanted out of the event.

 

Exactly, however, the same "suggestions" where made after last year's Faire and nothing changed. The feeling I get right now is, this is "Hal's show" and what he decides is what happens. He likes the library, it's easy, he's been doing it for years, they won't give him the other side room on Saturday, so "oh well, we do it in one room..." There is no money to support another venue because there is no coordination to charge people who attend.

 

Again, maybe it is me and I simply have the wrong perception. Instead of trying to change an event that people obviously don't want to change, I'll simply find one that suites my needs. Kind of like this forum vs. still trying to fight the politics and anti-change attitude on the Y! lists.

 

Matthew

[+InsaneMultitasker]

I'll poke the nest a bit. Here's what I came up with for my short list

 

 

1. Eliminate the webcast in favor of recording demos and editing/posting later. Cool idea but doesn't work. Let's make the faire the focus, not the people who could not/would not attend. This leads to #2

2. Presentations can be successful without dimming lights and silencing the visitors. Talk and interaction should be expected! I don't feel it is disrespectful so long as the venue is understood. Obviously a second room would be nice so long as #3 is in effect:

3. Presentation time limits and breaks, Q&A notwithstanding. This isn't a formal gathering, so use common sense.

4. Optional gatherings this year: american legion + best western. No need to eliminate one for the other. Both can co-exist, both could be attended. Four hours at one or the other is pushing it though not impossible. I enjoyed having both, though I would have liked a larger room. Still, the pre-Faire technical gathering just.feels.right.

5. Showcase: Faire website? Tell people what might be demo'd or presented AHEAD of time! This is always tough if the fairgoers do not commit. Gin up the excitement

6. Showcase: advertise the faire to other groups. We are talking about joining another faire; maybe others would want to join ours.

7. Don't allow people to hog tables. Additionally, the tables near the presentation area could have been moved to te back area for another row. The perimeter table setup stymied interaction.

8. reserve a common table/seating area for people to simply sit and chat. Not everyone wants to circle the perimeter for 9 hours.

9. Make some introductions of people sometime during the faire. Many of the attendees lean to the introverted side of the house. Mingle!

10. Solicit input from Hal. He is after all the primary reason we've had an annual fair. He is the passionate driver and may appreciate there are other like-minded individuals who want to improve this annual gathering.

 

When I got home I realized that of the 30 or so people at the Faire, I really only conversed with 5-6. The opportunities to mingle were limited. Ironically, the best interactions were not at the library but at the Burger King a few blocks away!

 

I feel somewhat sorry for those who only attend Saturday. Seriously, how many people sat behind those isolated tables for 30, 40, or more minutes with no one there to talk with? How many people did you count sleeping? (I saw four, maybe five).

[InfernalKeith]

Talking about vendors... what was the vendor situation like? I've heard about the guy selling carts for fifty cents (for the record, if you've got a crapload of carts and want 50 cents each for them, and there's stuff like XB's and Mini Memory scattered amongst the Early Learning Fun's, I'll buy them from you).

 

I had big plans for making a packaged version of my games this year, with nice printed instructions and all, and selling those - obviously that didn't happen. But all I've ever heard from Faire reports is of tables of hardware being given away for free, 50-cent carts, etc. As someone who sells some TI stuff on Ebay, that doesn't sound like anyone really needs or wants someone like me showing up with a vanload of gear and setting up a table. It never seemed like a good idea for me to inquire about vending that kind of stuff, because everyone diehard enough to attend already has ir all, or is trying to give away boxes of it, apparently.

 

That said, I am gonna shoot for having my games ready for 2011. I wonder if committing to a table earlier in the year would be a good kick-in-the-pants to get me motivated to finish the project?

[+Vorticon]

 

I find it grossly insensitive when suggestions are made "to take our wares elsewhere", especially coming from some who have never attended the Faire before.

 

 

Hmmmmmm......I didn't see that anywhere Walid.

Here's the direct quote.

 

"If Hal is not interested in changing anything, then like the A.A. forums, we will have to do our own thing."

[matthew180]

Guys, you can say stuff like "this is what Matthew said"... Yeah, I wrote that. And guess what, we already *did* our own thing this year, and Walid "you" were part of it!! We left the American Legion early and went back to Tim's room to mess with hardware and hack some code, I showed off the F18A, etc. If it were up to Hal, we would have stayed at the A.L. and drank beer until they closed, talking about how Chicago and Illinois politics and politicians are all corrupt.

 

If events turn out next year like this year, you think I'm going to the A.L. at all? Guys, I have no interest in drinking alcohol and talking about politics, sorry. Especially after driving 250 miles through snow and Chicago traffic to get up to Evanston.

 

Matthew

[+Vorticon]

I'm not threatening anything... Ugh, this is totally a conversation that needs to be had IN PERSON.

 

However, some people can't go to multiple computer shows a year, and the size of ours is obviously not big enough to entice even a fraction of the actual TI community to attend. When you are small or hurting, you reach out for help.

 

I'm also not against helping out, I'm willing to step up, however Hal has not asked for help... If he has already set the date for next year, then obviously it will again be at the Evanston library, follow the same format, etc. and that would indicate to me that nothing is going to change. There was also a comment made over on the Y! list that "there's a lot of TI world outside these forums". So what is being done to let those other people know about the Faire, and to get them to come?

 

To affect change for the good of the entire Faire, IMO this is what needs to happen:

 

1. Hal needs to agree that he could use some help.

2. A committee formed to make decisions and spread out the workload.

 

The rest is committee work:

 

1. An official domain registered.

2. A website created with tons of info about past Faires, and info about the upcoming Faire.

3. An appropriate venue and time of year selected.

4. Vendor commitments made and advertised.

5. Pre-registration opened as soon as the current year's Faire is over.

6. Charge $10 or $20 a day to attend (people spent more than that on beer.)

7. Advertise like crazy. There are tons of free "computer events" lists all over, none of which mention the TI World Faire.

8. Make a news letter or official periodic news posts on the official website.

 

I'm all for charging since we are too small to have the event for free. That would give us options that we don't currently have, like picking a venue that we can use 24-hours from Friday to Sunday, catering the events ceremony, etc. At the "peek" of the day Saturday I stopped and did a head count in the room: 30. That's it guys (there were no women, except 1 who came along with her husband who was there for 15 minutes.) But, 30 * $20 each is still $600 that could have been used to help run the event.

 

I don't think joining with another related event would dilute anything. Setting up the sub-forum here on A.A. did not dilute the rest of the A.A. forum, or affect anyone posting here. Everyone thinks the new hardware is really cool, but right now there are only 2 or 3 of us and we can only do so much. Other retro-computer systems have had their systems implemented in an FPGA for *years*. They have ethernet cards, USB devices, mega carts, etc. So getting some face time with the people doing that hardware for those systems would help entice them to look at the 99/4A. Hell, Marc's sound card is using the C64's SID chip, so imagine if he got to talk to that guy at the C64 show who was hacking the C64's sound! Or what the C64 guys would think about us adopting their sound card... Everybody wins.

 

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree though, for what I want from a TI computer Faire. I had three primary TI-related goals (the other goals were to meet people from the forum, which was a great success) for the Faire:

 

1. To have some good talks about additional features for the F18A beyond original 9918A functionality.

2. To talk about what people want in the way for a mega-cart, or the direction we should be going with the current cart developments.

3. To talk, in detail, about new hardware that people might want, like PEB replacements, networking, video, sound, keyboards, etc.

 

I did not get a chance to talk to anyone about any of that. Making hardware takes a *lot* of time and money, and trying to guess what people want sucks. It is better to ask and talk about it. Yes you can do that in the forums, but talking face to face with people is a rare treat, and it did not happen much this year. Am I expecting too much from the Faire to assume people there also want to talk about new hardware at a technical level?

 

Anyway, I've said my piece. I would like the Faire to grow and have more emphasis on keeping people together longer to mess with the computers (the reason we are there, right??) I'm willing to help any way I can, however I'm going to be pessimistic (it's my nature) and say "they" don't want change. I hope I'm proven wrong!

 

Matthew

 

All great things Matthew. However, you need to also consider other people's needs. Not everybody is into hardware like you are, and some enjoy just reminiscing about the good old days, and that's OK too... I will talk to Hal about all that is being suggested here and I'm positive he will be all ears. After all, if he is not receptive, then the future of the Faire might be compromised...

 

Walid

[InfernalKeith]

A thought: if the two-rooms thing is being stymied by lack of funds, I would be willing to pre-pay for my admission to 2011's event. And I bet you could get 19 other people to pony up, if it meant a venue more suitable to this evolving and (hopefully) growing event. That way, even if people DO bail at the last second, they've made their contribution and Hal isn't left holding the bag at the end.

[+Vorticon]

Guys, you can say stuff like "this is what Matthew said"... Yeah, I wrote that. And guess what, we already *did* our own thing this year, and Walid "you" were part of it!! We left the American Legion early and went back to Tim's room to mess with hardware and hack some code, I showed off the F18A, etc. If it were up to Hal, we would have stayed at the A.L. and drank beer until they closed, talking about how Chicago and Illinois politics and politicians are all corrupt.

 

If events turn out next year like this year, you think I'm going to the A.L. at all? Guys, I have no interest in drinking alcohol and talking about politics, sorry. Especially after driving 250 miles through snow and Chicago traffic to get up to Evanston.

 

Matthew

Matthew, you are missing the point of the Friday gathering all together. The primary objective is fellowship with fellow TIers you have not seen in at least a year, and usually some shop trickles through. It was never intended as a Faire event but rather a tradition. And yes you are right, I did eventually join you at the hotel and enjoyed the technical discussion very much, but not before I also caught up with my old friends and exchanged shady jokes and caught up on life in general over a few beers and pizza. Over time, these people grow on you, and you will start looking forward to spending some quality time with them even if no TI stuff is ever discussed. Maybe you will get there some day, or maybe not, and it's simply a different outlook, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And guess what, I'm actually already looking forward to seeing you and Marc and Mike and Tim again next year

[matthew180]

A thought: if the two-rooms thing is being stymied by lack of funds, I would be willing to pre-pay for my admission to 2011's event. And I bet you could get 19 other people to pony up, if it meant a venue more suitable to this evolving and (hopefully) growing event. That way, even if people DO bail at the last second, they've made their contribution and Hal isn't left holding the bag at the end.

 

It is not funds in this case, at least I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that the library won't give Hal both rooms, and they even almost would not give him the main room for the whole day. The side room is used by a mom-to-mom sale that seems to happen every year on the same Saturday (or maybe they do it every month, I don't know that either.) Last year it seems the library double booked the main room and the Faire could not start until noon!! Anyway, the problem is the library itself I guess. They are not a convention center, thus probably don't like their community rooms tied up so long.

 

Matthew

[matthew180]

Matthew, you are missing the point of the Friday gathering all together. The primary objective is fellowship with fellow TIers you have not seen in at least a year, and usually some shop trickles through. It was never intended as a Faire event but rather a tradition. And yes you are right, I did eventually join you at the hotel and enjoyed the technical discussion very much, but not before I also caught up with my old friends and exchanged shady jokes and caught up on life in general over a few beers and pizza. Over time, these people grow on you, and you will start looking forward to spending some quality time with them even if no TI stuff is ever discussed. Maybe you will get there some day, or maybe not, and it's simply a different outlook, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And guess what, I'm actually already looking forward to seeing you and Marc and Mike and Tim again next year

 

Yes, you are probably right, I'm missing the point, but that would not be the first time. My idea of a good time is sitting around talking about code, watching the way other people solve coding and hardware problems, reading data sheets, and crap like that. That's why I'm a geek and mostly introverted. When I walked into the A.L. I knew two people, you and Hal, and I only briefly got to meet you last year. I have no idea who the other guys around the table were, I did not recognize their names, they didn't seem to participate in any of the forums or lists, and getting words out them them was near impossible.

 

I like meeting up with old friends, but for me that is only part of the Faire, but what it seemed like was that to most it was the *main* aspect of the Faire. Saturday came and went in the blink of an eye, and for the second year in a row I did not get to talk to hardly anyone about tech stuff, look at Tursi's gear, etc. Only this year did I get to meet Marc or Tim, and finally got to get to know you better too, Walid. Tim had to leave Saturday night, and Marc retired early (10:30pm) with his wife (understandably).

 

Walid, I thought your presentation was really interesting and I would really have liked to have had a chance to sit down with you and talk about chaos theory, check out how you did the code, see it run on a TI, etc.

 

I can't wait until next year either, especially to talk with you, Tim, Marc, Tursi, OWEN!!, Filip, Keith, and others. But I need my tech fix, and I think there are others who would like that too.

 

Matthew