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Original Flashback2 Sighting... $24.99


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#26 TwinChargers OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:52 AM

I can only suggest that someone bite the bullet, pick one of these up, and open it up. It sounds as if Marty is pretty sure they are pirated, and the only way to be sure is looking inside the thing and see if they are legit.

For the record, I think at some point Kroger, who didn't get in on the Flashback 2 originally, bought up someones remaining stock and is distributing it through its grocery division. I couldn't imagine that a huge retailer like a Krogers would want to get themselves into the legal mess of buying up pirated consoles to make a quick buck in their cooperations grocery division.

#27 Mirage OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:02 AM

You know how many you sold to retail, but how do you know that all of them were sold through to end consumers? It sounds like you're saying you do know this? Just curious. Sorry if I missed if you already said.

Unless you know for sure that it can't be the case, doesn't leftover stock seem like a more simple answer than new pirated units? Though, I admit, it's starting to seem like it might be an awful lot of these new units all at once, maybe lending some credence to the pirate theory.

#28 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:39 PM

You know how many you sold to retail, but how do you know that all of them were sold through to end consumers? It sounds like you're saying you do know this? Just curious. Sorry if I missed if you already said.


They were sold out at retail locations. We produced a specific amount for Walmart, Target, QVC, and a few other sources. Hence the high demand for the final pallets of them we shipped over in 2006 I believe (which had been sitting all that time waiting to be shipped over due to some dealings over here I'm not at liberty to discuss). And the need for Atari to contact us again to do a new run that wound up being the 2+.

Though, I admit, it's starting to seem like it might be an awful lot of these new units all at once, maybe lending some credence to the pirate theory.


That's exactly the point. Way way to many for a lost pallet. And what really irks me if this does turn out to be pirates, is that it's money out of Legacy's pocket that could have been used for all the other projects we wanted (and still want) to do.

Edited by wgungfu, Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:46 PM.


#29 TwinChargers OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:34 PM


You know how many you sold to retail, but how do you know that all of them were sold through to end consumers? It sounds like you're saying you do know this? Just curious. Sorry if I missed if you already said.


They were sold out at retail locations. We produced a specific amount for Walmart, Target, QVC, and a few other sources. Hence the high demand for the final pallets of them we shipped over in 2006 I believe (which had been sitting all that time waiting to be shipped over due to some dealings over here I'm not at liberty to discuss). And the need for Atari to contact us again to do a new run that wound up being the 2+.

Though, I admit, it's starting to seem like it might be an awful lot of these new units all at once, maybe lending some credence to the pirate theory.


That's exactly the point. Way way to many for a lost pallet. And what really irks me if this does turn out to be pirates, is that it's money out of Legacy's pocket that could have been used for all the other projects we wanted (and still want) to do.


Have you contacted Atari to look into this, I'm sure its money out of there pockets as well if it is indeed pirates. They'd probably have the legal clout to stop this sort of thing to continue to happen too.

And on a side note, it should show Atari that there is such demand for these things that pirates went so far as to clone it to satify peoples Atari hunger and maybe a FlashBack 3 is needed.

#30 Mirage OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:59 PM

Thanks for the answer Marty. That's unfortunate then. They're directly affecting our hobby if that's the case. I hope you're able to get to the bottom of this and prosecute.

#31 akator OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:58 PM

After reading this thread, I took a good look at my Flashback 2 then went to the local Kroger. They only had one in a Christmas display. I looked the box over and couldn't find any glaring differences between it and the one I bought a few years ago. Sure, it could be pirated, but I doubt it. Even the "seal" sticker looked exactly like mine. Then again, I didn't open up the box...

#32 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:07 PM

I looked the box over and couldn't find any glaring differences between it and the one I bought a few years ago. Sure, it could be pirated, but I doubt it. Even the "seal" sticker looked exactly like mine.


That would be an incorrect assumption, as the possibility is always that the manufacturer we went with is doing this on their own or simply "leaked" the files (which is all someone would need) to be able to reproduce it. A pretty common occurance over there and part of the risk of doing business with manufacturers there, it's a pretty incestuous industry there. Wouldn't take much to reproduce/copy it if you have access to much of the original resources. The box and labeling are just AI and ID files for instance, and of course they have access to the materials for the custom chips.

Have you contacted Atari to look into this, I'm sure its money out of there pockets as well if it is indeed pirates. They'd probably have the legal clout to stop this sort of thing to continue to happen too.


Their legal department (which is actually very small) is busy with a backlog of other stuff going on right now to worry about this. I'm probably going to at least contact Krogers to find out what their source was.

Edited by wgungfu, Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:11 PM.


#33 akator OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:51 PM

More info... my wife just told me a coworker bought one from the same Kroger last Christmas for her husband.

Yeah... contacting Kroger seems the best way to resolve the issue :)

Edited by akator, Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:52 PM.


#34 crsdawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:58 PM

I bought one of the fb2's from Dillons (a Kroger store btw) tonight. The store marked them down to 19. 99 and curiosity got the better of me. I got it to compare the pcb to a fb2 that I picked up a thrift store a while back.

If the info I found concerning the board revisions is correct, they both seem to be rev c but there are some differences. For instance, in the text font and atari logo, some capacitors are different, and the color of the boards do not match.

The fist two revisions were big boards and Rev C was the smaller, correct? Were there differences within board revisions...or ?

Sorry for the poor quality pics, my good camera took a dump on me a month or so back and I'm stuck with cell pics for now. The lower pcb came out of the fb I just bought.

Attached Thumbnails

  • fb1.jpg
  • fb2.jpg

Edited by crsdawg, Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:04 PM.


#35 Curt Vendel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:17 AM

Thanks for the photo's, something is amiss, I can tell already, going to make some inquiries.... seems somebody has gotten their hands on materials that don't belong to them and those new boards are NOT what they should be...



I bought one of the fb2's from Dillons (a Kroger store btw) tonight. The store marked them down to 19. 99 and curiosity got the better of me. I got it to compare the pcb to a fb2 that I picked up a thrift store a while back.

If the info I found concerning the board revisions is correct, they both seem to be rev c but there are some differences. For instance, in the text font and atari logo, some capacitors are different, and the color of the boards do not match.

The fist two revisions were big boards and Rev C was the smaller, correct? Were there differences within board revisions...or ?

Sorry for the poor quality pics, my good camera took a dump on me a month or so back and I'm stuck with cell pics for now. The lower pcb came out of the fb I just bought.



#36 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:11 AM

Thanks for the photo's, something is amiss, I can tell already, going to make some inquiries.... seems somebody has gotten their hands on materials that don't belong to them and those new boards are NOT what they should be...



This sums up how I feel right now......


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sO_QntXc-c4[/url]

#37 risxc OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:31 AM

[quote name='wgungfu' date='Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:11 AM' timestamp='1293001875' post='2164148']
[quote name='Curt Vendel' date='Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:17 AM' timestamp='1292998657' post='2164127']
Thanks for the photo's, something is amiss, I can tell already, going to make some inquiries.... seems somebody has gotten their hands on materials that don't belong to them and those new boards are NOT what they should be...
[/quote]


this is truly bad news
I hope my Amazon one I ordered is not fake

Edited by risxc, Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:33 AM.


#38 crsdawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:43 AM

Easy way to tell if yours is one of these mystery units...

The sticker that is around the power/reset/etc buttons on my original fb2 has 3 colors (black b/g and red/orange text) and white...the one I got from the grocery store only has 2 color (black b/g and red text) and white.
This pic shows it pretty clearly...maybe a cost cutting move done when they were printing stickers.

The cases are otherwise identical...def came out of the same mold, even the screws seem to be the same.

Attached Thumbnails

  • fb4.jpg


#39 risxc OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:03 AM

Easy way to tell if yours is one of these mystery units...

The sticker that is around the power/reset/etc buttons on my original fb2 has 3 colors (black b/g and red/orange text) and white...the one I got from the grocery store only has 2 color (black b/g and red text) and white.
This pic shows it pretty clearly...maybe a cost cutting move done when they were printing stickers.

The cases are otherwise identical...def came out of the same mold, even the screws seem to be the same.


hmmm , well mine is still on the way but I will definitely check , Thanks,

can you post pics of the topside of the boards ? be interesting to compare the "faketari" with your real board
like to see what they changed.

I wonder which tape-out of the chips they used was it the latest or an earlier release, does the quadrun speech work?

#40 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:44 AM

I wonder which tape-out of the chips they used was it the latest or an earlier release, does the quadrun speech work?


I'm wondering if they even bothered to reproduce the chips and didn't subsitute something else.


The hunt for them IS ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqdFBZYHlsk

#41 risxc OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:32 AM

[quote name='wgungfu' date='Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:44 AM' timestamp='1293007454' post='2164179']
[quote name='risxc' date='Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:03 AM' timestamp='1293005001' post='2164164']
I wonder which tape-out of the chips they used was it the latest or an earlier release, does the quadrun speech work?

I'm wondering if they even bothered to reproduce the chips and didn't subsitute something else.






The hunt for them IS ON.
[/quote]

that would be interesting to see with what they could substitute...



Marty and Curt I hope you nail the suckers to the wall.

Edited by risxc, Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:46 AM.


#42 Jay Silverheels OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:32 AM

This is terrible news. I've loved my FB2's. I must have near a dozen of them boxed in their different revisions (I like duplicates, too).

This all makes me wonder how long this has been going on, perhaps in other NTSC countries where we wouldn't have gotten any reports. <shudder>

#43 TwinChargers OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:47 AM

Wow, this thread really took a turn for the worse. From what I assumed to be misplaced overstock to now actual pirate consoles. Very sorry that that is the case. Hope you guys can get to the bottom of this and prosecute. I still wonder if Kroger is innocent in this and unknowingly purchasing these pirate Ataris, or if they are just hoping no one will notice?

And even though Atari has a swamped small legal department, I would think that this is still something they should atleast know about weather they would take care of it or not... unless you think that they themselves are in on it too.

#44 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:56 PM

I seriously doubt Kroger would **KNOWINGLY** be "in on" fake units? Why would they risk it? For a small item like that, which barely affects their bottom line? Most likely, they were solicited (with low/clearance price) by unscrupulous vendors dealing with even-less-scrupulous Chinese pirates.

#45 brojamfootball OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:54 PM

These seem to be widespread.
My brother told me he saw them for sale in a grocery in Angel Fire New Mexico.

Seems to be they are only in grocery stores. Weird.
I suppose all the stores are part of the giant conglomerate
with one big buy distributed to all the individual stores.

Now with what Ive heard of this piracy
I want to have my brother get one for me to test myself.

Sincere apologies to all the Legacy Engineering guys who
are being cheated.

Maybe some good can come of this.
MAYBE Atari MIGHT see there's some demand out there.

Happy Holidays all!

#46 akator OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:11 PM

Easy way to tell if yours is one of these mystery units...

The sticker that is around the power/reset/etc buttons on my original fb2 has 3 colors (black b/g and red/orange text) and white...the one I got from the grocery store only has 2 color (black b/g and red text) and white.
This pic shows it pretty clearly...maybe a cost cutting move done when they were printing stickers.

The cases are otherwise identical...def came out of the same mold, even the screws seem to be the same.


I just picked up one from the Kroger. The sticker on mine has 3 colors. Even upon closer examination, everything looks legit. Nothing about the box, packaging, instructions, console, PSU, or joysticks appears wrong.

Things changed when I tried to play the games. Many have serious problems with objects disappearing or not drawing at all, the screen jumps and wobbles around, sometimes everything disappears completely. I haven't tried to play everything, but the only "arcade" games that work correctly are Battlezone and Millipede.

Quadrun does have the startup voice.

#47 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:09 PM

Things changed when I tried to play the games. Many have serious problems with objects disappearing or not drawing at all, the screen jumps and wobbles around, sometimes everything disappears completely. I haven't tried to play everything, but the only "arcade" games that work correctly are Battlezone and Millipede.



Thanks for sharing that, it's what I was afraid of. I have to wonder how this is going to reflect on Legacy's reputation now if people are unknowingly buying these and having this happen, let alone Twin Charger's wishful thinking that it'll show a stimulation of demand for the Flashbacks. If the bulk are like this one, it'll actually cut future demand with people remembering the last item they bought was crappy and malfunctioning.

#48 tep392 ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:52 PM

Let's please document any and all differences to help the collectors avoid these fakes. Maybe it should go in a sticky as well.

#49 crsdawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:32 PM

Got another pic for you guys...business side of the pcbs. The FBp (flashback pirate) has a much different layout. I bet it's cheaper to make.

If I get some time I'll put these back together, plug 'em in, and look for differences in play quality.

original fb2 is upper...Kroger one is lower:

Attached Thumbnails

  • fb5.jpg

Edited by crsdawg, Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:38 PM.


#50 Retro Rogue OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:42 PM

Got another pic for you guys...business side of the pcbs. The FBp (flashback pirate) has a much different layout. I bet it's cheaper to make.

If I get some time I'll put these back together, plug 'em in, and look for differences in play quality.




Thanks, can alreeady see they used really cheap components. Any way you could do me a favor and post one more picture? I'd like to see the bottom half of the console case (bottom label side, not the inside), and specifically what the texture looks like. That'll help identify what molding process was used.


Thanks!

Edited by wgungfu, Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:49 PM.





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