Next Project?

[unhuman]

Not sure what I'm gonna do next. Might get back to my Tardis game - but considering altering it's architecture by leveraging My Little Compiler. It might do great things for the type of game it's gonna be.... I need something for speed.

 

-H

[matthew180]

Assembly.

[unhuman]

Assembly.

 

Umm... Not gonna happen. If I'm gonna spend that much time actually learning something, it's gotta be practical. Sorry.

[+retroclouds]

Assembly.

 

Umm... Not gonna happen. If I'm gonna spend that much time actually learning something, it's gotta be practical. Sorry.

 

hhmmm, assembly language is *very* practical, really

You can't believe what you can pull out of that little machine with TMS9900 assembly language.

[+adamantyr]

Assembly.

 

Umm... Not gonna happen. If I'm gonna spend that much time actually learning something, it's gotta be practical. Sorry.

 

hhmmm, assembly language is *very* practical, really

You can't believe what you can pull out of that little machine with TMS9900 assembly language.

 

Indeed.

 

Adamantyr

[unhuman]

Oh - I don't doubt that. And I know some assembly - but learning the architecture / debugging / etc... The time to reward too great for my lifestyle... If I had infinite cycles, it might be different. Sorry, guys.

 

Edit - so thinking about this more - I suppose my jealousy of you guys doing really cool stuff makes me want to do something else.... Something better. I'm frustrated.

Edited December 22, 2010 by unhuman

[matthew180]

If someone had told me 20 years ago that learning x86 assembly was a waste of time, they would have been way wrong. You can write a Windows program in assembly today and have 90% of the world's computer users as a customer base. But we're not writing code to sell to Windows users, and if you program in 9900 assembly you can reach 100% of 99/4A users.

 

When you do something as a hobby, being *practical* is somewhat irrelevant IMO. Something else to keep in mind is that computers have not really changed much since the 1960's. They have gotten more dense and faster, but the way they work has not changed. Heck, the minicomputers of the 1960's had pipeline processors that did not appear in the x86 architecture until the mid 90's in the 386 and 486. So anyone who learned to take advantage of a CPU pipeline in the 60's would have found their skills useful 30 years later on "modern" computers.

 

Also, learning about data types, bits, bytes, memory, addressing modes, data manipulation, etc. is not computer, architecture, or programming language specific. Learning about those things makes you a better programmer no matter what language or platform you are working on. Even in TI BASIC, understanding how the numeric and string variables are stored helps you make better decisions as to which type to use for specific situations.

 

Of course there are always things that *are* specific to a computer architecture that won't cross to other platforms, but that is true no matter what architecture you choose. Graphics are the worse. Even on a single platform like Windows, you have a myriad of incompatible choices. First, you will never do your graphics directly to hardware (like we get to on the 99/4A), you will use a library, and your choice means you are learning something specific. DirectX, SDL, OpenGL, wxWidgets, Allegro, FLTK, etc. Sound is a similar problem, keyboard and mouse I/O, and anything else that is not just executing instructions on the CPU. And that is just Windows. If you pick mobile app development, you again have to learn something totally new. When I started iPhone development, nothing in my 25 years of programming helped me stumble through their esoteric class layout. Even if you learned something like C, a huge part of your code will be platform specific, making system and library calls that are not useful on any other platform or language.

 

Anyway, coding on a old computer is more for enjoyment than anything practical. If you are looking to make extra cash on the side, or start a small programming business, you are going to have to make similar decisions, pick a specific platform, and learn its quirks. I don't think there is anything practical about anything platform or language these days.

[unhuman]

Matthew - exactly. I want to maximize my efficiency when developing on the TI. That's all. I think I've done the best work I've ever done for the TI - and want to do more. That's all... And finding the best way to do that... Perhaps I'll wait until next year and use my holiday time for practical stuff (either iPhone dev or learning more modern web ui)...

 

I started my CV dev with the desire to have fun and make a little more cash - and I did pretty well - but my game didn't turn out to be fun and I sorta lost interest... And I couldn't make sense of how sounds worked... I have a huge supply of EPROMs, a burner, and cartridge thingies... Just sitting. Still need an eprom eraser though...

 

Thanks!

[sometimes99er]

I started my CV dev with the desire to have fun and make a little more cash - and I did pretty well - but my game didn't turn out to be fun and I sorta lost interest...

What is the CV dev ? Did you make any cash or what went well ?

[unhuman]

I started my CV dev with the desire to have fun and make a little more cash - and I did pretty well - but my game didn't turn out to be fun and I sorta lost interest...

What is the CV dev ? Did you make any cash or what went well ?

 

Dev for ColecoVision. it went very well until my game wasn't fun. No $ made - just lots spent thinking I was gonna make some.

 

-H

[sometimes99er]

Okay, thought CV was either that or a typo. So you were using a dev, developing a dev or just short for development (would maybe explain the "game" part) ? Maybe stupid questions, but I was just wondering why, if you have programming skills/experience outside TIB and XB (sorry, I can't remember), why you wouldn't want to try your hands on 9900 assembly.

 

[matthew180]

Well, on the 99/4A I don't think using BASIC or XB will maximize your time, because in the end you will always be somewhat disappointed with the results due to the slow speed and lack of a good way to easily distribute your game.

 

Also, maybe games are not your "thing"? I always wanted to make games, but came to the conclusion that I enjoy making tools more; compilers, utilities, libraries, etc. I'm creative as long as I have a direction, but I'm not that good at coming up with things out of thin air. That's why I took something like Codex's FlyGuy to start with, and just remade that; it was purely execution of writing the code at that point. And look, I didn't take it further because I can't decide how the game should be expanded to make it "complete" for a cartridge release.

 

For me it is never the end product, the enjoyment comes from working through the problems. I love to take something someone did and find a way to do it faster, in fewer instructions, more compact, slicker, easier, etc. The old adage "it's not about the destination, but the journey" stands true for me.

 

Also, all projects have a boring part. That's usually the paperwork, documentation, product materials, web site, labels, payment processing, sourcing parts, setting up for shipping, making final graphics and sounds, making the title screen, developing the attract-mode, etc. Your drive and motivation have to carry you through that.

 

As for making a game that is fun... I have a pile of books on making games, "What is Fun!?", game design, game tricks and theories, writing games from the trenches, etc. None of them help you make a better game. They do, however, have two points they all make: 1. our brains perceive "learning" as "fun", and 2. a good game is fun even without fancy graphics or sounds (when the mechanic of the game is fun, all the other stuff is just polish.)

 

Like all things, necessity is the mother of invention. If you write a program that you "need", chances are someone else will need it too and you might make a little money selling it. For games, write the game you absolutely want to play. What makes you say "cool!" ? Find your "crack" (ie. the virtual "drug" that makes you want to play) and you will create great games. For some (well, all the women in the world anyway) it is as simple as solitaire, for others (males age 14 to 40) it is running around a virtual world killing monsters and portraying a female (did I write that out loud? ) What is your crack?

 

End of line.

[unhuman]

My crack is having people like what I do I'm more about capability than actually doing, which is odd, since I've really been driven by these contests and our little community. Definitely having fun here.

 

As to writing stuff I wanted and then selling it - yep, did that too. Harder these days with the decline of "utility" programs, but unHUman software (unhuman.com) was pretty much about making stuff I wanted and then seeing other people did too... The "marketing" side of that is what sucked for me.

 

My game for CV was/is a version of Turmoil. I felt CV didn't have enough "twitch" games and wanted that game. Again, sort of got lost in the fact that it wasn't as fun. Not quite sure... Not really a tangible thing. And, again, I couldn't grasp how sounds worked... So it sort of all fell apart for me.

 

-H

[matthew180]

My crack is having people like what I do I'm more about capability than actually doing, which is odd, since I've really been driven by these contests and our little community. Definitely having fun here.

 

Absolutely! Getting feedback and having people use and enjoy what you create is probably the biggest reward in anything you do in life. If we can't share our creations with other people and have them appreciated, what is the point? It is the sense that what you are doing is worth while. However, you also need to enjoy what you are doing regardless of whether people enjoy it or not. For me personally, the "praise reward" is not enough to carry through the whole project, so there has to be something else.

 

The programming competitions going on here are great and a lot of people really get in to them. I think it is great fun to watch, and I love it when people ask for some technical help. That's my contribution, helping people out, and the crack is when they say "I get it now!" Owen is good for a lot of crack.

[Mad Hatter]

What is the name of your CV game? Is it public? I'd love to get the ROM for my 128-in-1 cart!

 

My crack is having people like what I do I'm more about capability than actually doing, which is odd, since I've really been driven by these contests and our little community. Definitely having fun here.

 

As to writing stuff I wanted and then selling it - yep, did that too. Harder these days with the decline of "utility" programs, but unHUman software (unhuman.com) was pretty much about making stuff I wanted and then seeing other people did too... The "marketing" side of that is what sucked for me.

 

My game for CV was/is a version of Turmoil. I felt CV didn't have enough "twitch" games and wanted that game. Again, sort of got lost in the fact that it wasn't as fun. Not quite sure... Not really a tangible thing. And, again, I couldn't grasp how sounds worked... So it sort of all fell apart for me.

 

-H

[unhuman]

Spaz Attack - I can send you a rom

[matthew180]

And, again, I couldn't grasp how sounds worked... So it sort of all fell apart for me.

 

The technical part of sound is not hard. You write bytes to the sound chip, it makes noise. Now, selecting those byte values, that is the hard part and it does not matter what system you work on, creating sound data is hard. Knowing that pushing a piano key, lifts an armature, that moves a lever, that causes a felt hammer to strike a wire under tension, that causes the wire to vibrate and create a note... knowing all that won't help you play any better or read music.

 

A lot of game developers hire, or work with, someone who specifically does the music. Most games back in the day were done by a single person and the sounds we were assaulted with reflect that. Lucky for us we have a great community and I think there are a few out there who can play musical instruments (and who are willing to help out people making games with a few sounds or songs)

[+retroclouds]

My game for CV was/is a version of Turmoil. I felt CV didn't have enough "twitch" games and wanted that game. Again, sort of got lost in the fact that it wasn't as fun. Not quite sure... Not really a tangible thing. And, again, I couldn't grasp how sounds worked... So it sort of all fell apart for me.

 

-H

 

I suppose you wrote your colecovision game in C and had to use the available libraries, which if I'm not mistaking use the OS7 ROM calls for playing music. Actually quite a big part of the OS7 code is spent on the music player. It's a powerful player and the song data is very compact. Have to admit I didn't quite fully catch how it worked though.

 

On the TI-99/4A a good choice is Tursi's MOD player, I'm surprised it isn't used more.

You can compose (or rip) music using the MOD2PSG2 tracker for windows and play it using the MOD player.

The only backdraw is that it requires more than 256 bytes of RAM, so cartridge-only is out of the question unfortunately.

 

As Matthew mentioned, playing music on the TI isn't that complicated.

hehe, composing music on the other hand is another cup of tea, at least for me

[unhuman]

I suppose you wrote your colecovision game in C and had to use the available libraries, which if I'm not mistaking use the OS7 ROM calls for playing music. Actually quite a big part of the OS7 code is spent on the music player. It's a powerful player and the song data is very compact. Have to admit I didn't quite fully catch how it worked though.

 

You got it, although not quite sure what it does for sound. The only working sounds were sniped from other projects, other suggestions from people. Just couldn't quite figure out how to finish the game...

[Tursi]

On the TI-99/4A a good choice is Tursi's MOD player, I'm surprised it isn't used more.

You can compose (or rip) music using the MOD2PSG2 tracker for windows and play it using the MOD player.

The only backdraw is that it requires more than 256 bytes of RAM, so cartridge-only is out of the question unfortunately.

 

I never thought of the cartridge-only question, that's a good point. I was disappointed that nobody was able to pick up the tracker, and also disappointed that Kontechs never released the 2.05 version, which I thought had a better (smaller) output format. That, combined with the no-commercial-use clause of the EPSGMOD format, made me start re-investigating. My current output is the MOD conversion tool, which works reasonably well. You could compose MODs in the tracker of your choice (such as ModPlug Tracker), so long as you remember 4 channels, and keep your instruments simple, and get output that is simple enough to be played by anything. I suppose to be fully useful to the TI community, I should add a couple of output conversion options (ie: console playlist, and perhaps a packed format with a player). Either way it will be simpler than the EPSGMOD player. Simpler means it will take far less CPU, but it will also take more memory since it's a recording instead of a proper tracked format.