Metal Ghost Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Four screenshots of one game from months upon months ago does not sell me a product. The status page has shown me some mockup box artwork, (which is not an actual box), and some pictures which look very prototypical, and not at all a finished product. I've noticed an abject refusal to actually show more game information than those very few screenshots, and nothing really substantial. If people want to lessen the criticism and anger levered at the project, perhaps more than just "we're working on a game we can't show you" might help. Just sayin'. If someone wants money for a project like this, sell me a piece of hardware, sell me on it's capabilities, sell me on why I simply *must* have it. Don't sell me on a concept and lots of "trust me, it'll be awesome". First off....I completely agree that people should be able to voice their own opinion. I've said that before, and I'll say it again (well, not right now, because I just did, but you get the idea ) However, I would like to point out the fact that the XM is fundamentally different than a new console from Nintendo or the 32X was. Now, bear with me. I'm sure everyone is thinking 'well, yea, tell me something I didn't already know!'. First, it's a homebrew/hobbyist development. It's been said 20 times in this thread alone, but nonetheless it apparently needs repeating: this is something that someone is creating who has a love for the hobby. So yes, I think out of respect that harsher, more critical viewpoints should be toned down (not ommitted or attacked if expressed, but just not so harshly expressed in the first place!). I'm sorry, but it's NOT the same thing as criticising Sony or Microsoft. This is not being created for a profit, really. It's being made by someone who shares our passion for not only gaming but for a particular console that most of us also happen to have an affinity towards. We, collectively as a community, are getting more than homebrewers ever do. Second, someone is creating what is esentially a toolkit that can be used by homebrewers to create greatly expanded games for the 7800 in the future. It's not a retail unit backed by a corporation that additionally has 1st/2nd party developers creating games for the thing as well. So I don't even think it's fair to be dissapointed in Legacy for not showing games because, um, to the best of my knowledge they don't develop games! And, they have absolutely no control over the homebrewers that do!!! DocEss....not an attack on you, it's just the part about the games that I wanted to express my opinion on. I totally get that you, along with many other people, may not want to take the plunge and purchase an XM until they see more games that take advantage of it. That's totally fair and a valid point of view, in my opinion. It's just that the makers of the XM wouldn't have any games to show for it and probably never will, not directly (AFAIK at least.....someone please correct me if I'm wrong). And a homebrewer, making a game on their own spare time in conjunction with work, family, watching CSI or whatever the heck else they may do with their spare time, well they may not necessarily have things to show that are up to their standards as a run-up to the XM launch. So I think that it's extremely unfair to hold this up to the standards of an Xbox 360 launch, where yes, I too would be stating my disappointment and disbelief if Microsoft didn't have some software to back up a hardware launch. EDIT: Yay, new page!! Edited February 20, 2011 by Metal Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomickneedrop Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 still excited about the xm. an update would be nice, even with no new projected date. but im still excited and can't wait for it to be part of my 7800 setup. cheers to all involved with the development, sorry if its been quite the hassle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Curt will most likely start a new thread when he wants to post new information. At least that's what he's done in the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I hope so, I was looking for the XM status page forum, and all I could find was this XM whine and gripe page. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Curt must be swamped or not visiting here as I still haven't had a reply to the PM I sent a while back... that's all I can say... waiting, yes. Patient, yes. Thankfully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 these things take time. the xm will be ready when it's ready. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Anyone can 'shoop up an idea of what a box should look like, and shoop a few concept designs of what the finished product could look like. I could do that in the space of an afternoon. Outside of presenting an actual, real, finished product, this is essentially asking people to buy a promise, not a product. There hasn't even been an update as to why the latest release date was missed. You are either blind, or trolling if you haven't seen the photos of the plastics coming back from the injection mold place for starters. There's a pretty neat feature on the forum, it's called search. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Anyone can 'shoop up an idea of what a box should look like, and shoop a few concept designs of what the finished product could look like. I could do that in the space of an afternoon. Outside of presenting an actual, real, finished product, this is essentially asking people to buy a promise, not a product. There hasn't even been an update as to why the latest release date was missed. You are either blind, or trolling if you haven't seen the photos of the plastics coming back from the injection mold place for starters. There's a pretty neat feature on the forum, it's called search. Or the mockup that was shown here and at CGE. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Or the mockup that was shown here and at CGE. My thoughts exactly :- http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010960 http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010961 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ve4C1vvolps/TFdEV9lUrgI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/Te75dkKtg9A/s400/CGE2010+043.jpg Never mind the technical data files I have, the 1000s of lines of game code, emails, PMs etc., etc. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBritish Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Or the mockup that was shown here and at CGE. My thoughts exactly :- http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010960 http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010961 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ve4C1vvolps/TFdEV9lUrgI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/Te75dkKtg9A/s400/CGE2010+043.jpg Never mind the technical data files I have, the 1000s of lines of game code, emails, PMs etc., etc. I would have paid for this if it ended up being just the unit itself in a plain brown box turning up on the doorstep but no, Curt and team take the extra effort to add the silver plate with the 7800XM logo..AND an Atari style silver retail box!. There are many other retro hardware addons out there which are excellent in functionality but in many cases delivered as bare circuit boards. This surely has been the first time a retro addon has been delivered to the same standard as a retail product. Still cannot wait, any news on the docs? Will they be delivered in the box or as downloadable PDF's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Back in December, when it was thought it would be a rush to finalize them before release, Curt mentioned them (documentation, code samples for CC2 users, etc) as a downloadable resource., probably hosted on one of his websites. Likely that hasn't changed as it would probably be an unneeded expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Still cannot wait, any news on the docs? Will they be delivered in the box or as downloadable PDF's? I'm hoping to put together some XM specific examples. Anything in particular that you are interested in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocEss Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Or the mockup that was shown here and at CGE. My thoughts exactly :- http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010960 http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010961 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ve4C1vvolps/TFdEV9lUrgI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/Te75dkKtg9A/s400/CGE2010+043.jpg Never mind the technical data files I have, the 1000s of lines of game code, emails, PMs etc., etc. A mockup isn't a real product. Nor are "lines of code" that have no, or very few, screenshots. When you have a tangible product, then you can trump about as though it's the best thing since sliced bread. Right now, all you have are words on a site, and numerous missed release dates, and no update for weeks. I'll be impressed when it actually exists. Don't expect me to be when it's just promises. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBritish Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Still cannot wait, any news on the docs? Will they be delivered in the box or as downloadable PDF's? I'm hoping to put together some XM specific examples. Anything in particular that you are interested in? I thought docs were being written for the XM. That said curious about the Yamaha sound chip. I assume that using the pokey is the same as on the A8 platform. Amy insights into working with the Yamaha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) This is a hobbyist expansion module. A project of this magnitude is a HUGE undertaking. There are alot of extras I feel that this project is trying to offer, for a totally reasonable price. Any large hobbyist projects such as these take time to produce. The fact that we are getting this project at all is pretty amazing. This is pretty much uncharted territory for anyone to release add-on hardware. People who have been around a long time know that projects sometimes take a long time, there are often delays, and simply are finished when they are finished. I am sure that there are many games that will eventually be released for this module. I feel that this a system that can open doors for other programmers to make games for this wonderful system. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As someone who has been around awhile buying alot of hobbyist projects I encourage people to give this project some time and respect. There is no doubt that this project is going to help several projects to eventually be made on the 7800. Edited February 20, 2011 by swlovinist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 A mockup isn't a real product. Nor are "lines of code" that have no, or very few, screenshots. I'm sure my game's beta testers will be happy to know that what they are playing is both a figment of my imagination and theirs . As I've said before many times, games will be announced when developers are ready to and not before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I thought docs were being written for the XM. A document with registers in a memory map is a bit of a "dry" read in my opinion. I'd like to supplement it with additional examples that expand on the information and to act as reference material. However, that side of things has taken a bit of a back seat while I try and get some games done for XM buyers to play. That said curious about the Yamaha sound chip. I assume that using the pokey is the same as on the A8 platform. Amy insights into working with the Yamaha? I haven't done anything serious with the Yamaha chip yet. If you can find a suitable tracker driver (like RMT on the A8s) I'll add it to my todo list of things to port over to the 7800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have some goals for the XM but it's all academic until the XM as a final product exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have some goals for the XM but it's all academic until the XM as a final product exists. From what I understand of your project you'll need a ton of emulator support too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 lol boy I hope Curt (I Reallly HOPE) get a good chuckle out of this thread! :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 lol boy I hope Curt (I Reallly HOPE) get a good chuckle out of this thread! :S Yeah me too. After all that he's done for the Atari Community, I'd hate to see him scared off by the actions of a few. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have some goals for the XM but it's all academic until the XM as a final product exists. From what I understand of your project you'll need a ton of emulator support too . Perhaps. Since my project in its most complete form hinges upon the keyboard port and the SIO port...and unfortunately, I'm not a Windows person. (we Linux users get the shaft with most emulators, unfortunately.) (ProSystem DOES work, but I prefer not to run an emulator under another emulator, even if it's just an API emulator.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 ...and unfortunately, I'm not a Windows person. And I'm not a Linux person... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocEss Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 A mockup isn't a real product. Nor are "lines of code" that have no, or very few, screenshots. I'm sure my game's beta testers will be happy to know that what they are playing is both a figment of my imagination and theirs . As I've said before many times, games will be announced when developers are ready to and not before. Well, don't expect excitement over what is at this point, empty words with nothing tangible to back them. I'll care when there's more than words and excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'll care when there's more than words and excuses. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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